BUSTED -12 False Theories Refuted

[truth7t7]

9 hours ago, WilliamL said:

The stickler here is the definition of "the last day" within the total context of prophetic scripture. Is it a single day? or is it a specific era of time? Oh, such as the 7th Millennial "Day." Or, the whole period of the End of the [this] Age.

To presume that "DAY" here means one single day is a real leap of logic.

Jesus clearly taught of "The Last Day" and its the time of "Final Judgement" when mortal turns to immortal in the twinkling of an eye, death is swallowed up in victory 1 Corinthians 15:51-54

John 12:48KJV

48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

[truth7t7]

7 hours ago, The Light said:

Everyone of Daniels people that are written in the book as we can prove by the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal immediately after the tribulation.

You suggestion that the book of life is opened multiple times is "False" it will be opened once at the "Final Judgement"

Revelation 20:12-15KJV

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, The Light said:

Which return of Jesus are you talking about? And which dead?

Are you talking about when Jesus returns for the dead in Christ, the Church before the great tribulation?

Or are you talking about when Jesus returns at the 6th seal for the people of Daniel, when MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth are raised? This is the end of the age, after the great tribulation.

Or maybe you are referring to the raising of dead that remain in the ground at the 7th seal?

Please clarify which coming of Jesus you are referring to, and which dead you are referring to.

 

 

Every man in his order. First fruits and then they that are Christs at His coming.

So coming are you referring?

So are you talking about the days of Lot or days of Noah. Please clarify which coming of Jesus you are referring to.

If you are talking about the days of Lot, this does not happen until after the Church is already in heaven, which is a picture of the days of Noah.

 

Right. All that are in their graves at that time will be raised.

The dead in Christ have risen before this. And MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth which are the people of Daniel will be raised immediately after the great tribulation at the 6th seal.

The event when all that raised occurs after the 7th trumpet which is contained in the 7th seal.

Hmm. Everyone which seeth the son.................????????????

As was clearly shown, Jesus returns and the resurrection of all takes place, this is the time of final judgement (Then Cometh The End) your suggestion that there is multiple resurrection at different times is "False", there's on future 7th Angel/Trump that will sound and at this time the end of this physical world takes place in the Lord's second coming in fire and final judgement (The End)

Edited May 5 by truth7t7

[truth7t7]

6 hours ago, The Light said:

How is it that MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth are raised????????????????

Why are not ALL raised??????????????????

The word "Many" doesn't exclude "All" Daniel 12:2 and John 5:28-29 are parallel teachings of the same future event in the last day resurrection of "All", your suggestion that there are two different times of resurrection to eternal life and eternal contempt/damnation is false

Daniel 12:2KJV

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:28-29KJV

28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,

29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Edited May 5 by truth7t7

[Diaste]

18 hours ago, The Light said:

Context is everything. When you take things out of context, you are off the trail.

Song of Solomon 2

8 The voice of my beloved! behold, he cometh leaping upon the mountains, skipping upon the hills.

9 My beloved is like a roe or a young hart: behold, he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing himself through the lattice.

10 My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

11 For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone;

12 The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land;

In the above it shows the Lord coming for His love. He is not seen as He is behind our wall, looking through the windows showing himself through the lattice. Not for everyone to see. He comes in the spring as the dead in Christ rise first.

I think I have said before this is quite the fanciful interpretation. In chess when one is losing they can go desperado, throwing everything at the opponent in hopes the opponent caves. That's what this reminds me of; you really don't have anything concrete so you're making the desperate move.

I find it fascinating that you are so close in several other prophetic areas and understanding, and yet still cling to what isn't there. It's okay, you can cross that bridge, take those final steps, there's no judgement. 

I see the Rev 7 group and read they came out from within GT.

There must be something akin to that for a pretrib group of gathered believers; a group that should be much larger than the GT group, and walked the earth and lived and died in righteousness worthy of such a grand and distinctive gathering. 

Is there such a statement?

[Diaste]

17 hours ago, The Light said:

In the past? There is still an abrupt distinction between Jew and Gentile currently. The Gentiles will be the first fold ......those that He knows and those that hear His voice. After the fullness of the Gentiles comes in, part of Israel will have its blindness removed. What will the Jews say?

Not in Gods eyes.

Galatians 3

 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise."

One can't hold to this nondiscrimination policy regarding salvation and the promises then proceed to segregate by ethnicity as it suits when 'interpreting' prophecy. 

Galatians 3:29 is literally saying if you are in Christ, you are of the faith of Abraham, the father of Israel, making us all of Israel.

Further, the religion of the Jews is gone and dead in God's eyes so there is no distinction to be made. 

Paul tells us in Romans we are grafted into the natural olive tree which is Israel. There is no such thing as Gentile church, a Gentile fold, a Jewish fold, and Israeli fold, etc. All are one in Christ Jesus. 

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Jeremiah 8

20 The harvest is past, the summer is ended, and we are not saved.

The Jews will realize that they have missed the harvest and will be jealous. It is the Jews that go through the great tribulation. The Church is already in heaven.

Romans 11

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Context.................

The above verses that I have posted prove that my conclusion is correct. Everyone wants to skip to the one-fold, the Israel of God. But the truth is that there are two folds that are joined into one fold at the gathering from heaven and earth which takes place at the 6th seal. This is why there is a great multitude in heaven in Revelation 7 some of which come out of great tribulation.

No. You are missing the understanding, the veil lifted by Gal 3:28-29.

17 hours ago, The Light said:

The feasts of God show us there is a grain harvest and a fruit harvest. The Jews will realize that summer is ended, the harvest is past, and they are not saved. Hence they will be on earth during the great tribulation. The people of Daniel, dead and alive will be raised at the coming of Jesus at the 6th seal..........seen here.

This is clinging to the past. You have good arguments, this isn't a set of arguments in that category.

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

 

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Bottom line, the Church, the dead in Christ and the alive that remained are in heaven during the great tribulation when the spring and summer harvest occurs.

If you could cite a direct statement in support I'd be grateful

17 hours ago, The Light said:

 

The Jews will be on earth during the great tribulation.

And so will the church. 

"17And the dragon was enraged at the woman and went to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."

Only the church will "keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.", the Jews don't " hold to the testimony of Jesus."

 

17 hours ago, The Light said:

Those of the people of Daniel that are written in book of life will be delivered when Jesus come at the 6th seal.

You misquoted. Here's the actual text from Dan 12. "But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered."

If you don't care for the BSB I can cite every version ever written, they all say the same thing. 

This does not say, "Those of the people of Daniel that are written in book of life",

This says, "everyone whose name is found written in the book", So the people of Daniel are those whose names are found written in the book. 

Do you see that? Jesus told Daniel that Daniel's people are the ones whose names are found in the book. That means Daniel's people are from every race, religion, and creed without prejudice or discrimination. 

Daniel's people are the believers in Jesus Christ whose names are found in the book.

17 hours ago, The Light said:

 

Then both Jews and Gentiles, God people, will return to heaven for the marriage supper and will be the great multitude the Israel of God.

The 7th seal is then opened, and the wrath of God will begin.

 

[Desopixi Seilynam]

On 5/3/2025 at 11:59 PM, kwikphilly said:

So to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord for example- everyone safely assumes that means you physically die and your soul is with Him? Does it or does it mean after we are Raised from our graves and our physical temporal body decays in the constraints of TIME as we wait for Jesus WHO for Him it has already taken place.....and it just IS

Paul said he was willing to be present with the Lord, people take that verse
and infer that we will be with the Lord upon death,
and I do think that is a safe assumption.

I think we physically wake up to the day of the Lord upon death.

"To you who are troubled rest with us, when, the Lord Jesus
shall be revealed from the sky, in flaming fire taking vengeance...."
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10

That is when our rest begins, on the day of the Lord.

 

 

 

 

[kwikphilly]

31 minutes ago, Desopixi Seilynam said:

Paul said he was willing to be present with the Lord, people take that verse
and infer that we will be with the Lord upon death,
and I do think that is a safe assumption.

I think we physically wake up to the day of the Lord upon death.

"To you who are troubled rest with us, when, the Lord Jesus
shall be revealed from the sky, in flaming fire taking vengeance...."
2 Thessalonians 1:8-10

That is when our rest begins, on the day of the Lord.

 

 

 

 

I tend to lean that way as well ,might be 1000 yrs pass here but after death the spirit is no longer bound by " time"..interesting things to consider....

I do agree with @JoeCanada in that it will be shockingly different than anyone speculated

Although highly likely there'll be no memory of nit picking ego's & fruitless debate,insisting " I'm right- you're wrong" lol

[The Light]

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

You suggestion that the book of life is opened multiple times is "False" it will be opened once at the "Final Judgement"

Revelation 20:12-15KJV

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

How is it that you do not understand what is happening? As a Christian are you judged by your works or is the blood of Jesus and your faith sufficient?

The dead in Christ rise first. Then the alive in Christ are caught up.

Then MANY that sleep in the dust of the earth are raised........these are the people of Daniel.........EXACTLY as the Word says. This occurs at the 6th seal. 

These are the two folds of believers that become one-fold.......the great multitude. Both folds, two brides are in heaven for the marriage supper.

Are those that lived before the flood in Christ? What happens to them? They are judged by their works.

Revelation 20

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

 

[The Light]

6 hours ago, truth7t7 said:

As was clearly shown, Jesus returns and the resurrection of all takes place, this is the time of final judgement (Then Cometh The End) your suggestion that there is multiple resurrection at different times is "False", there's on future 7th Angel/Trump that will sound and at this time the end of this physical world takes place in the Lord's second coming in fire and final judgement (The End)

The end huh? Or we read the scriptures and understand from the verses below that Jesus comes at the 6th seal and sends His angels to gather the elect from heaven and earth. This is SIMPLE deductive reasoning. We can also conclude that the tribulation is OVER at the 6th seal. We are given a timestamp. The sun and moon are darkened and the stars fall from heaven at the 6th seal and in Matthew 24. BINGO. Jesus comes at the 6th seal.

Matthew 24

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 6

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

The BEGINNING to understanding Revelation is to understand that Jesus returns at the 6th seal for a harvest. Hence the great multitude that is in heaven for the marriage supper. 

 

Edited May 5 by The Light