Enough is enough.

[Alive]

26 minutes ago, tatwo said:

If I am to espouse...as you apparently have Brother Alive...which is...that it was simply Israel’s “mere presence from their beginning” that causes them to be surrounded by people who want them eliminated...then maybe I could agree with you here...maybe.

I showed you the character and nature of the founding fathers and mothers of this nation as clearly documented for us in the ancient texts. It is because of this...that I cannot wholeheartedly agree with you. Perhaps they are the only nation to have had “to endure this” as you said...I simply am not sure about that.

However...the scriptures have plenty of stories of where ancient Israel dealt treacherously with other nations and God...all along. And...I can and have read of their history...there really is not much left to ones imagination there at all. If one would simply put these realities together to put on display a scriptural truth...perhaps there would be less contention in this matter?

Tatwo...:)

I would just offer this for now. God has always used imperfect people to accomplish His Plan. This should be a take away to apply to whatever particular issue at hand.

Thanks for taking time to express your thoughts.

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:22 PM by Alive
Typo

[tatwo]

7 hours ago, Alive said:

We cannot know exactly what goes on behind the scenes, but God surely does. In this context, it doesn’t matter what your eschatology is…a nation will defend itself.

“We cannot know exactly what goes on behind the scenes” well in this case...simply looking at what we “can see” should be enough...even the unjustified see enough to serve up a judgment of impropriety as in the case that Brother @Ausie 52 addressed with his OP and the title of this forum.

“but God surely does”...now I can agree with that...however to make the claim that...“We cannot know exactly what goes on behind the scenes”...lacks integrity even if it is just this way for you...Alive...please allow me to to encourage you...perhaps. 

Consider the words of the Lord... "When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, that is the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me, and you will testify also, because you have been with Me from the beginning.” The Spirit of Truth will reveal the Lord Yahshua to us...this is how we learn to love the Truth....that we might also testify of Him. The Lord goes on to say...

"But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come. "He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. "All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you. "A little while, and you will no longer see Me; and again a little while, and you will see Me." John 16:13-16 NASB

Repeating Himself and His words 3 times in 3 sentences in a way...lends itself to the distinct possibility that God will indeed tell us the truth...and not only tell us the Truth...but give us the Spirit of Truth so that we can know how to understand...who God is but also...what is to come.

So I see this as Him...the Lord...as plainly stating...that when the Spirit of Truth comes He will show us the Living Lord Himself. And that we will be given what is His...namely His Spirit and that He will show what is to come...and this a measure of time before it is actually revealed in creation...it’s called prophecy.

As for the fact that you say...“a nation will defend itself”...true enough...as history records it and it will continue on into the foreseeable future as well. Makes me think of what might have been going on in the mind of the Lord when He and His people...did not fight back against their aggressors and accusers that day in Pilate’s court? His accusers were all liars...He was not guilty of that which they charged Him...save perhaps the King of the Jews.

And again in Gethsemane...right after Peter whacked the ear off of the slave of the high priest...in protest of their seizure of the Lord. The Lord quickly rebukes Peter...and then tells Peter...“do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve legions of angels?” Yet He does not do it...as He will go on to tell Pilate...“My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world, then My servants would be fighting so that I would not be handed over to the Jews; but as it is, My kingdom is not of this realm.”

The Lord patently did not approve of Peters violent attack...telling Him that...“all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.” These two examples of how our Lord dealt with violence in Hs day...provide a clear example for us as to our response to violence in our day. For “Pete’s sake” pun intended... “all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword.” How difficult of a statement is this to understand?

Take up your weapons...guns and the like...use them if you wish...the choice is yours. Either the Lord Yahshua meant what He told Peter and Pontus Pilate...or He did not. The only real choice that is left is how one desires to handle themselves in obedience to “Christ.”

Tatwo...:)

[Anne2]

12 hours ago, tatwo said:

Greetings Michael37...

@Ausie 52 started out by saying..."For many years I have been a supporter of the nation Israel, its right to exist and defend itself." That statement alone might lead one to believe...that Ausie 52 does or did indeed believe the answer to your question to be "affirmative"...that's not his issue.

He describes his distaste as..."But I cannot in good conscience support what it is doing in the Gaza strip. The vast numbers killed, children starving, food supplies cut off"...as an unacceptable action or response on the part of Israel...more likely the IDF and its commanders...as perhaps over the top...in terms of responsible acceptable human to human behavior.

If Ausie is right and the IDF is doing as he says...this would delineate the level of unbelief being put on display by the Israeli military and state in regards to the Lord Yahshua's principals or beatitudes from Matthew 5 or any of the Lord principals regarding retaliation against an enemy.

The destruction of Palestinians...and the vindication of Israel...in this conflict that is playing out here on the earth as reported...is subject to a higher court if you will. God's law of reaping and sowing is both revealing itself in this conflict now...and is guaranteed to show as the baseline Truth as we move forward.

The Lord Yahshua is reported to have once said..."You have heard that it was said, 'AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.' "But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. "If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also."       

Now He either meant this...or He didn't...how one chooses to interpret His words and the greater meaning...there in Matthew 5 will shed light upon the thoughts and intents of one's heart. In any case...we will now continue to watch as the judgment of sin and unrighteousness upon the earth...as it increases.

Tatwo...:)

 

I do think Israel is for this purpose in this world. It is why they were partly blinded..

1  What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
2  Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.
3  For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4  God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
5  But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man)
6  God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world?
 

They were called out of Egypt for the purpose of bringing judgement on the nations.

De 6:25  And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.
De 9:4  Speak not thou in thine heart, after that the LORD thy God hath cast them out from before thee, saying, For my righteousness the LORD hath brought me in to possess this land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD doth drive them out from before thee.
De 9:5  Not for thy righteousness, or for the uprightness of thine heart, dost thou go to possess their land: but for the wickedness of these nations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee, and that he may perform the word which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
De 9:6  Understand therefore, that the LORD thy God giveth thee not this good land to possess it for thy righteousness; for thou art a stiffnecked people.

Ge 18:19  For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the LORD, to do justice and judgment; that the LORD may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

True Israel as Gods firstborn had two portions of inheritance.

One earthly, the world that now is, and the heavenly that is to come.

we know Paul taught natural law. Men know what wickedness is....

Even the Jew, that is not an heir of heaven (1st born, double portion), is still an heir of his portion in this world.

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:55 PM by Anne2

[Debp]

15 hours ago, Ausie 52 said:

For many years I have been a supporter of the nation Israel, its right to exist and defend itself. But I cannot in good conscience support what it is doing in the Gaza strip. The vast numbers killed, children starving, food supplies cut off. This cannot be justified as a way to rid Gaza of Hamas.

As a Christian, my heart goes out to the many who are suffering  and dying.

It is time those in power in Israel were called to account for this ethnic cleansing of Gaza.

First this is a war...one provoked by murdering, kidnapping and raping of innocent civilians.    Israelis didn't start this war.

The young Bibi children hostages were strangled to death.   When the coffins of hostages were exchanged over to Israel, there was cheering and a great celebration with music by the Palestinians as they watched the coffins go by.

The Israelis drop leaflets, send texts and phone calls to Palestinians before they target an area.   But Hamas uses civilians, even in hospitals as human shields.

I heard that Hamas was stealing the aid meant for civilians.

In the Hamas charter, it says to kill every Jew.... worldwide, not only in Israel.   So this is the reason the Israelis are trying to eliminate Hamas totally.   And in war, there is suffering to civilians.   It has happened in many other wars and nothing is said.

One 22 year old Palestinian man was protesting against Hamas.    Hamas tortured him and then dropped his body on his parents' doorstep.   This is what the Israelis are dealing with.

I watched interviews with Palestinians and Jews...the Palestinians interviewed want all of the land and will not compromise for peace.    The Jews wanted to compromise and have peace.

 

[Alive]

4 minutes ago, Debp said:

First this is a war...one provoked by murdering, kidnapping and raping of innocent civilians.    Israelis didn't start this war.

The young Bibi children hostages were strangled to death.   When the coffins of hostages were exchanged over to Israel, there was cheering and a great celebration with music by the Palestinians as they watched the coffins go by.

The Israelis drop leaflets, send texts and phone calls to Palestinians before they target an area.   But Hamas uses civilians, even in hospitals as human shields.

I heard that Hamas was stealing the aid meant for civilians.

In the Hamas charter, it says to kill every Jew.... worldwide, not only in Israel.   So this is the reason the Israelis are trying to eliminate Hamas totally.   And in war, there is suffering to civilians.   It has happened in many other wars and nothing is said.

One 22 year old Palestinian man was protesting against Hamas.    Hamas tortured him and then dropped his body on his parents' doorstep.   This is what the Israelis are dealing with.

I watched interviews with Palestinians and Jews...the Palestinians interviewed want all of the land and will not compromise for peace.    The Jews wanted to compromise and have peace.

 

Well said, Deb. Regardless of what folks think, these things cannot be denied and must be considered...just like in so many other issues we deal with. What we know to be true has to be honestly faced in order to move forward in the search for truth.

[Anne2]

10 minutes ago, Alive said:

Well said, Deb. Regardless of what folks think, these things cannot be denied and must be considered...just like in so many other issues we deal with. What we know to be true has to be honestly faced in order to move forward in the search for truth.

Not only what has been done, also what they have said and continue to say. They will do it again and again and again.

[Alive]

1 minute ago, Anne2 said:

Not only what has been done, also what they have said and continue to say. They will do it again and again and again.

Yup-it is these things that indicate just who and what they are. People who live to hate and kill. It's integral to the belief structure.

[Debp]

16 minutes ago, Alive said:

Well said, Deb. Regardless of what folks think, these things cannot be denied and must be considered...just like in so many other issues we deal with. What we know to be true has to be honestly faced in order to move forward in the search for truth.

 

4 minutes ago, Anne2 said:

Not only what has been done, also what they have said and continue to say. They will do it again and again and again.

Check this video out....Mosab Hassan is the son of one of the founders of Hamas.   He is a Christian now.   He is speaking to Western university students here.

https://www.worthychristianforums.com/topic/312456-son-of-hamas-says-what-no-one-dares-to-say-about-palestinians/

 

[AnOrangeCat]

10 hours ago, Alive said:

In the natural realm, Israel has existed since its beginning, surrounded by people that want them eliminated. No other citizenry and Nation has endured this. The pressures created by this constant real threat can only be imagined.

We cannot know exactly what goes on behind the scenes, but God surely does. In this context, it doesn’t matter what your eschatology is…a nation will defend itself.

I agree. I've often stated that it's easy for those of us who aren't living in a war zone that has been a war zone for the majority if not the entirety of our lives and beyond to cast judgment on Israel. While I certainly don't believe we as Christians have to support every decision made by the Israeli government and can't speak against it at all, the reality of the situation needs to be kept in mind.

[tatwo]

On 5/6/2025 at 4:48 PM, Anne2 said:

I do think Israel is for this purpose in this world. It is why they were partly blinded..

Greetings @Anne2...

It is interesting that your response to me...Tatwo...“I do think Israel is for this purpose in this world. It is why they were partly blinded” concerning my response to Michael37...in part...about his slightly rhetorical characterization of Ausie 52’s OP. It utterly neglected to address any of the context or subject matter I included to Michale37 and this forum...and in response to Ausie 52’s OP. Which incidentally is the focus point of the forum.

Ausie 52 simply stated his/her displeasure with what modern Israel is now doing in Gaza, specifically the suffering and dying as listed. Then stated that he/she believes that Israel needs to be held accountable for what he/she called “this ethnic cleansing of Gaza.”

Now...if you were to read and understand my response to this forum, Ausie, and Michael...you would see that I actually was addressing Ausie’s concerns front and center in my initial response post. I offered spiritual principal, scriptural admonition and a simple prophetic word concerning today and the future.

Clearly the issue Ausie 52 wanted to communicate and perhaps discuss...is his/her...dissatisfaction with things in regards to Israel’s “ethnic cleansing of Gaza”...and some accountability there in. It patently appears to me that...your response to me Annie...which looks like a dubiously written and similarly out of context justification in defense of Israel’s treatment of the Palestinian people in Gaza.

Since you did this in this way...you clearly believe that your response to me...fit within the scope of what I presented and the forum itself...and took Ausie 52 as asking for some historical, biblical, personal reasoning why it is or might be “OK” for Israel to do what it is doing.    

I am not suggesting that you are alone in this...it is however...and this is my contention...that these types of discussions that could become open avenues to a greater light and understanding of the Kingdom of God on earth today...as well as...a greater understanding to what the dragon is doing amongst creation of which it has authority in the second heavens and over all the kingdoms of the world.

But rather...it generally turns into what might be a “believer against believer” battle between those who are vehemently in support of Israel and those openly questioning the same. Tell me why...in the grand scheme of things...some of you being so knowledgeable of God’s mind concerning Israel and of their importance and obedience to Him...would anyone even need to defend them..."if God is for them who can be against them?"  

Israel...more specifically perhaps...its leaders and the compliant IDF and associated agencies...does play a part in this epoch...these are openly putting on display what character they are of. “Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap. For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.” Galatians 6:7-8 KJV

It is this wisdom that will be the last word for Israel...and the entirety of creation. Rest assured that the "remnant of Israel...those in Christ" understand this as well...and are preparing for their hour.

Tatwo...:)