No rapture or left behind

[ted]

You can feel the sin reaching up towards heaven, everyday is a raging war, I don't know if I am winning or losing.

I try to help other people, but my faults prevent me from doing that, so any of you who have read my previous posts please forgive me in the past and for future times.

I do get worked up over little things that shouldn't be done, but when I do I don'[t take time to look at myself.

I know I will be forgiven, I know it's been prayed I come around.

The faith I have grows stronger, but along with that so does the opposition to it.

I want to have great faith and am willing to suffer any length to obtain a full relationship with god.

I desire the spiritual gifts so when I tell people of him, they will believe.

As carnal as that sounds, I used to be into witchcraft, and in the end it turned into God showing me what the truth is, I've seen mch with witchcraft, and know that things greater are possible with God.

We can only do what we try to. Although we will never see perfection while in these old, worn out bodies, we can do little things to improve.

Your search for great faith will no doubt bring much fruit!

God Bless,

t.

[Him_Crucified330]

I think that whatever happens in the end times, it will be completely different than what anyone has ever spectulated it would be like. Not only does 'no man know the day or the hour' but i think that no man even knows that it will be like. Half the things in revalation could be spiritual, half carnal, or wholly spiritual or wholly carnal. We dont know how it will be, so trusting in the Lord is our best bet, and listening to the Holy Spirit inside of us as the end of days draws nearer.

[ParanoidAndroid]

I don't believe in a Rapture, but since I don't want to take this thread off topic, I'll imagine that I'm wrong and the Rapture is true. I'd first hope I would be one of those taken up with the brethren. If not, then the first thing I'd do is probably head over to my aunty's farm - she has a 500 acre property up the North Coast of New South Wales. I'd then start a crash-course in farm-work and vegetable planting. As long as there's water, there should be no worries...... unless we get run off the farm by the government. In which case I'd like to think I'd rather die than worship the Beast.......

[Openly Curious]

I am sure there is a difference between the "trump" and the last "trumpet judgment". I am looking into this!

Yes, I agree with you Floatingaxe there is a difference between the "trump" of God found in

1 Thessalonians 4:16--"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first."

as the saints that are alive and remain will be "caught up" this is a different event altogether than the "last trumpet judgment found in the book of

Revelation 11:15-19--"And the seventh angel sounded, (this is the last trumpet judgment) and there were great voices in heaven, saying. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God. Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come because thou hast taken to thee they great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament and ther were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Now as one can see that these are two distinct and seperate events that are going on.

OC

[larryt]

I am sure there is a difference between the "trump" and the last "trumpet judgment". I am looking into this!

Yes, I agree with you Floatingaxe there is a difference between the "trump" of God found in

1 Thessalonians 4:16--"For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God and the dead in Christ shall rise first."

as the saints that are alive and remain will be "caught up" this is a different event altogether than the "last trumpet judgment found in the book of

Revelation 11:15-19--"And the seventh angel sounded, (this is the last trumpet judgment) and there were great voices in heaven, saying. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God. Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come because thou hast taken to thee they great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament and ther were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Now as one can see that these are two distinct and seperate events that are going on.

OC

You forgot a verse that clarifies I Thes. 4:16.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

The last trumpet is the LAST one. There are no more trumpets mentioned after Rev. 11.

Now as one can see, these are the same events that are going on.

LT

[eric]

I believe as you do larryt. Of course if someone can define, biblically, the difference between *trump* and *trumpet*, I might reconsider.

[Rebmilc]

Jesus Admirer, I am am not attacking you OR CJ. I am saying that you are not debating each other and you are not displaying Christian love. To each other or anyone else. Point of fact, you are now railing against me. You are using scripture at each other like bullets out of a gun. What is more important, displaying the Love of Christ, or "being right?" You are preaching to me about false doctrine and you don't even know where I stand. You don't find that a bit ironic? I do. It is also quite revealing that you would now castigate me for simply trying to calm things down a bit. Neither one of you is going to change your positions anyway, so it is all kind of a moot point, is it not? If you treat everyone this way, it's no wonder that they won't listen to what you have to say. Can I have my head back now?

AMEN Cobalt. Couldn't have put it better myself

[Rebmilc]

I'm not going to post on this thread anymore, because I have to agree with Cobalt1959, that I do get rather irritated. One thing Cobalt1959 said to me is also true, and that is nobody will listen to me, if my irritation is showing.

So what I'm going to do is give a link to a website of a very peacful Baptist Preacher with a degree in Divinity, who gives a good account of the PreWrath Rapture theory, so all can learn it from him if you're interested.

Please know that this Minister doesn't even know me, so I hope you will except him as a peaceful preacher apart from my irritations with pretribulation rapture defenders. I also want to add that this Minister has received his degrees from a Baptist Seminary, but the PreWrath Rapture Doctrine isn't a Baptist Doctrine.

I first read a book about PreWrath from a Minister who had been an Assembly Of God Minister for over 30 years, but was denounced by the Assembly of God denomination, because he changed his mind about a Pretribulation rapture, and then started preaching the PreWrath Rapture.

But now this Baptist Minister Dr. Elbert D. Charpie also preaches PreWrath, which isn't a Baptist or Assemblies of God Doctrine. Because both the Baptist and Assembly Of God Denominations will generally preach a Pretribulation Rapture Doctrine.

There will also be other books named on his website written by others who share the PreWrath Doctrine.

Here is an insert from his website about this Minister:

Dr. Elbert D. Charpie lives in Johnson City, Tennessee where he has pastored Grace Baptist Church for over ten years. He has studied end time events for several years and developed "In View of the End" about five years ago. Dr. Charpie earned his Master of Divinity and Doctor of Ministry degrees from New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary.

Here's the link to his website that will give the PreWrath Rapture view.

http://prewrathministries.org/index.html

Doesn't prove anything JA.

I could give you a host of links to sites which "Give a good acount" of the pre trib rapture.

[Rebmilc]

I'm a pre-tribber, so I'll fly away oh glory, I'll fly away.

If not, I'll grow my own and if needed take a bullet to the brainpan.

I hear rats taste like chicken...

Right on....Preach it Brother

[Massorite]

Allow me to set the stage....

The time is the new world order under one religion. The antichrist is killing all who do not pledge his alliance. You cannot buy, sell, or trade without his mark.

What would you do? Where would you go? How do you protect your family? How would you survive? Do you have a plan if this horrible event should ever occur?

Won't be here. To have a plan is to not believe what the Word tells me.

The WORD tells you that the antichrist will be here before Jesus returns which means that you will be here to suffer persecution. 2 Thess 2:3

Read it and rejoice.