Biblical basis for no rapture?

[angels4u]

I believe Petra is going to be a hiding place for the Jews in the Tribulation?

Dad Ernie wrote:

In some circles in the secular world, people have seen spacecraft that are more than a mile in diameter, perhaps larger. I would imagine there is plenty of room there for all the Pre-tribs. Once the alien's super duper zapper ray "catches up" all you guys, the Lord is going to take the rest of us believers to Petra where we will wait out the "tribulation" in peace & comfort. The pre-tribs will go to a place somewhere out in outer space where they can start a new civilization and begin all over again populating their new world. While we wait for the Lord to come and take up residence on this earth and then WE shall reign with him for 1,000 years in our Glorified Bodies.

well.....

[RCruise]

To any who say there is NO Rapture:

Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:26-27

26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 21:27-28

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

1Thess 4:16-17:

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I quit using the word "rapture" and started calling it just what the Bible says; First Resurrection. That way there is NO confusion to the written facts. We either believe God or men. It's that simple. Now, as to the timing, just read the preceeding verses in the Gospels as to all the signs which must occur first including the sun and moon being darkened and the heavens being shaken FIRST. THEN shall He send His Angels....

Suffering the Great Tribulation of the antichrist is NOT suffering the Wrath of God which He WILL remove us before His Wrath is poured out. During His Wrath He will pour out stinging locust-like beasts, Fire like hail from heaven, turn the waters poisonous polluting some to blood like the plagues of Egypt. That kind of Wrath we will not see if we are Christ's

[RCruise]

There is NO hiding place from God's Wrath, there is NO Left Behind" souls that will see salvation during or after His Wrath. Those who do not accept Christ NOW before His second coming are doomed eternal. The Word says after each plague or "vial" is poured out;

"...and they repented not to give him glory. "

After every plague, those words echo; "and they repented not to give him glory. " There is no one saved in the Wrath of God. Either believe God or men.

[Adstar]

To any who say there is NO Rapture:

Matt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Mark 13:26-27

26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Luke 21:27-28

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

1Thess 4:16-17:

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

I quit using the word "rapture" and started calling it just what the Bible says; First Resurrection. That way there is NO confusion to the written facts. We either believe God or men. It's that simple. Now, as to the timing, just read the preceeding verses in the Gospels as to all the signs which must occur first including the sun and moon being darkened and the heavens being shaken FIRST. THEN shall He send His Angels....

Suffering the Great Tribulation of the antichrist is NOT suffering the Wrath of God which He WILL remove us before His Wrath is poured out. During His Wrath He will pour out stinging locust-like beasts, Fire like hail from heaven, turn the waters poisonous polluting some to blood like the plagues of Egypt. That kind of Wrath we will not see if we are Christ's

Amen to that

All Praise the Ancient Of Days

[RGR]

I personally believe in the rapture (Dad Ernie, I'll say "hi" to you on the way up!), but there are some groups who don't. I can remember Armstrong used to offer a suitcase full of money to the first person who could find "rapture" in the Bible and that was one of his factoids for not supporting a rapture. Personally, that much of an argument doesn't hold water to me just because you can't find it in the Bible doesn't mean it isn't described. We can see in the case of Enoch and Elijah the translating of saints into Heaven, thereby (to me) proving the rapture in one small point. It doesn't matter when we think the rapture will take place, though there would be no need for a post-trib rapture anyway-but I leave that one alone, we can agree the Bible does teach a rapture to come.

[Guest Calamity]

Well I haven't heard about the Petra thing, but I definitely believe there is going to be a rapture. When? I don't know, but I believe we will be taken out (raptured), at some point.

I used to be pre-trib, and now, I just don't know. I haven't even given it a lot of thought the last few years, because whenever it happens, it'll be when God's ready. I'm probably teetering between mid and, right before post.

[Guest choobaca]

I used to be pre-trib, and now, I just don't know. I haven't even given it a lot of thought the last few years, because whenever it happens, it'll be when God's ready. I'm probably teetering between mid and, right before post.

Hi Calamity,

I understand your position, for I came to the same a long time ago. You can listen to both sides of the coin, and both have texts to show why they believe what they believe.

This not a short study, for I've been into it for 30 some years. But I will try to tempt your pallet.....Jesus came the first time physically, and He will come the second time phsically.

Pretrib splits the second time into two phases or blatenly says that the rapture is completly separate from the Second Coming.

Fine, show me. All texts have to agree as to His return. Then where does this text fit....

Matt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

KJV

Note: it says HE is coming "immediately AFTER the trib of those days"( or post). That means that the same coming in 1 Thess 4 is the same one as here in Mathew. Otherwise, we have a second and third coming which the scriptures do not allow. If you have a Strongs concordance, trace the word "coming" (parousia in the Grk). You will be surprised, and thusly blessed.

I know I will get a lot of flack on this but such is our perseverance.

Peace,

Choobaca

[BlindSeeker]

In some circles in the secular world, people have seen spacecraft that are more than a mile in diameter, perhaps larger. I would imagine there is plenty of room there for all the Pre-tribs. Once the alien's super duper zapper ray "catches up" all you guys, the Lord is going to take the rest of us believers to Petra where we will wait out the "tribulation" in peace & comfort. The pre-tribs will go to a place somewhere out in outer space where they can start a new civilization and begin all over again populating their new world. While we wait for the Lord to come and take up residence on this earth and then WE shall reign with him for 1,000 years in our Glorified Bodies.

WOW! And I thought I was the only one that believed that!

Tooooo coooool!

[oliveoil]

choo! I belive you are right. I think sometimes we try to put to much of ourselves into a belief and it blinds us to the truth. The scripture you quoted speaks volumes. Its as plain as the nose on our faces.

[stevehut]

When the end comes, only one thing will matter: Either you're saved, or you're not. I'm not going to wear myself out with this kind of thing.