America-Blessed or Cursed?

[Oh Hamburgers!]

Disasters come and go. Compared to things that have happened in the past, I feel this year has been pretty mild. I wouldn't jump to conclusions and say these things are happening because we did something and God is ennacting his revenge. Rather, I would say... we are getting fires cause its dry!

[TM75]

We can use the prophets to show us the condition of America today, and that we terribly need to reform ourselves and become righteous. Here's where the ungodly live after their own pleasure, and where laws often trump tyranny instead of freedom. The U.S was not founded as a Christian nation, but as a nation that believes and follows men's doctrines and traditions, only yet Christ is mentioned. Really, our nation hath given itself to Baal, not to God, yet in his mercy and longsuffering, waiting for the fruit of the earth, Jesus Christ can endure it all. Yet, I believe these fires are a judgement against the idoltary of California, in that movies are spoken of as things that God is neutral upon. See us not as righteous, but as those who are in desperate need of righteousness.

Jude 10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not. In those things which they know naturally (as beasts which are without reason) they corrupt themselves

1:11

Woe be unto them, for they have followed the way of Cain, and are spilt in the error of Balaam for lucre's sake, and are cast away in the treason of Core.

1:12

These are spots which of your kindness feast together, without fear, feeding themselves. Clouds they are without water, carried about of winds: Trees rotten in autumn, unfruitfull twice dead, and plucked up by the roots.

faithofgod.net 1526 reformed N.T

[Smalcald]

Well I can't defend California or their politics or moral climate. It is corrupt and immoral.

To me the problem of the counting of blessings or judgements lead based on some criteria of our own devising is that we will often be wrong, we don't know God's timing. For example what did Haiti ever do to Israel?

What is a blessing also? It seems like it is always said to be material. I mean so some million dollar homes in So. Cal get burned up, is this really a huge curse to this country? I would rather live in a poor country with few material blessings but with a strong faith and moral climate. Morality itself is a blessing.

I guess my point is I do believe God judges nations and that He does this in our time, I just don't believe most people are privy to God's ways of doing this, and thus usually get it wrong.

[wvpeach]

It is not part of God's plan that any nation should stand blameless in the end days .

America is no exception to this. And America has much to answer for.

The savaging of the native culture the Indians when we took the land over.

Slavery and treating black people as if they were animals

Greed we let people die in this country for lack of health care that is well within our means to supply.

And now a preemptive war where innocent men , women and children have died.

No America has no special place in the heart and mind of God. Don't kid yourself's .

[angels4u]

Update and Commentary

Prophetic America Can Choose

to be Blessed Or Cursed -

By Bill Wilson, KIN Senior Analyst

WASH

[Marnie]

Matthew 24 is describing world conditions during the Tribulation.

I'm sorry, but I cannot see a "principle" in operation between what OT prophets prophesied for Israel and Judah and America today. A principle, as opposed to an "interpretation" is something that applies to all people for all time. The prophecies in the OT were time-specific and all fulfilled in the past. IF you want to look for a principle, it would be that judgment will come to all nations, but it will come at the end. We aren't there yet.

I believe my quoting 2 Peter is acceptable within the parameters of established hermeneutics. Peter is addressing a situation where people were wanting the sinners to get their just deserts, just as some of you are wanting America to get what it deserves in terms of judgment. I applied that verse to the situation, saying we need to be patient and let history wind down, and let G-d progress with His program for the Earth. G-d has promised judgment, but we aren't seeing it yet, no matter how much you want to see it.

G-d does not deal with the world as He did during OT time. We are living under grace now. We have the completed Word of G-d and the Holy Spirit for guidance, two things the OT people didn't have.

We are told in Hebrews 13 to,

Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. (13:7-9)

While Jesus may not change in terms of His character and nature and that He has bound Himself to His Word concerning His people, the way G-d deals with man changes from age to age.

[tsth]

G-d does not deal with the world as He did during OT time. We are living under grace now. We have the completed Word of G-d and the Holy Spirit for guidance, two things the OT people didn't have.

We are told in Hebrews 13 to,

Remember your leaders, who spoke the word of God to you. Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. (13:7-9)

While Jesus may not change in terms of His character and nature and that He has bound Himself to His Word concerning His people, the way G-d deals with man changes from age to age.

I don't think so Marnie, as the warning for us is clearly stated in the NT. Remember, God does not show favoristism.:

1 Cor. 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry." 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test the Lord, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel. 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

This is where the OT warnings were carried as warnings, into the NT. If these plagues did not apply to us, then the above would not have been written.

In His Love,

Suzanne

[Smalcald]

It is not part of God's plan that any nation should stand blameless in the end days .

America is no exception to this. And America has much to answer for.

The savaging of the native culture the Indians when we took the land over.

Slavery and treating black people as if they were animals

Greed we let people die in this country for lack of health care that is well within our means to supply.

And now a preemptive war where innocent men , women and children have died.

No America has no special place in the heart and mind of God. Don't kid yourself's .

But when you say "America" exactly who are you talking about? Our leaders, the President, Dick Cheney, every US citizen? What? Because obviously it is not every citizen as each individual is judged individually, and those whose names are not in the book of life, made up of those with true faith in Christ alone; will die in thier sins so who is this "America" that will stand before God?

[Marnie]

1 Cor. 10:1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. 2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. 3 They all ate the same spiritual food 4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. 5 Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered over the desert.

6 Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. 7 Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: "The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in pagan revelry." 8 We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did--and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. 9 We should not test the Lord, as some of them did--and were killed by snakes. 10 And do not grumble, as some of them did--and were killed by the destroying angel. 11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come. 12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!

This is where the OT warnings were carried as warnings, into the NT. If these plagues did not apply to us, then the above would not have been written.

In His Love,

Suzanne

Suzanne,

The Corinthian passage was written to the church at Corinth, not to any nation in particular. Paul is trying to warn the Corinthian believers to practice self restraint by using the history of Israel as an example. He uses the sins of the nation during the time of Moses as a basis for his warning. Just as believers have entered into the New Covenant through Christ, the people of Moses' day had their covenant blessings and were miraculously delivered and kept alive, yet most of them died in the wilderness because of their sins. So Paul uses their experiences as examples.

There is not a plague in sight.

Verses 11 to 13 serve as Paul's application to the church; he sets for the examples of history as warnings for the Corinthians in particular and to the Church by application; warnings, not promises.

[backontrack]

Update and Commentary

Prophetic America Can Choose

to be Blessed Or Cursed -

By Bill Wilson, KIN Senior Analyst

WASH