Oh Christmas Tree, Oh Christmas Tree

[kari21]

I think back to that tree, the tree that was harvested to make Christ's cross.... It is Him that I see, not a tinseled lighted evergreen when I hear... "Oh Christmas Tree, Oh Christmas tree, How lovely are thy branches.... It is Him that I see, hung on that 'tree' [cross], arms streatched out [the ultimate symbol of love] and offering us everlasting life...

That was so beautiful...thank-you.

[nebula]

Agreed!

[artsylady]

Let me ask you this. Today, what does December 25 mean to the vast majority? Pagan or Christian holiday?

To me it's neither christian or pagan but a time to have fun, decorating, eating, buying presents; I think that's the way it is with most people; we've modernized it to our own culture and we celebrate it within that context.

No offense, but I didn't ask what you personally thought. I asked what YOU think the VAST MAJORITY beleive it to be.

Religiously speaking, historically it began as a pagan holiday. Early christians did not celebrate at this time of year for that very reason.......they shunned it.

No offense again, but I don't trust a lot of 'history'. When you have people in just 50 years after the holocaust stating that it never even happened, I just don't trust a lot of it.

From a Christian perspective; those who see it entirely as a celebration of the birth of Jesus....-- Those of you who think God doesn't have a problem with this.....what do you think He meant about not adopting pagan/heathen customs?

Well, I don't know to be honest. Singing "Away in A Manger", giving gifts and celebrating God's greatest gift wouldn't constitute 'pagan customs' in my mind. The the pure, all things are pure.

Was God just "messing" with us? Did He really not mean it or has he sofened about it and changed His mind?

What pagan customs do you beleive Christians practise? The bringing in trees to their homes? Fine, don't do it. But why write off the entire celebration? If you feel in your heart that it is simply wrong to bring in a tree and decorate it, then don't do it.

I mean, the Bible tells us that God's ways are not man's way yet this holiday is "man's ways".....how do you reconcile those verses with statements to the effect of, "I don't really think God will be mad at us for celebrating Jesus' birthday on Dec 25th".

How do you reconcile putting gel in your hair? Shaving? These ways are not God's ways. How do you reconcile reading CS Lewis? God doesn't get any insight from him. How far do you take this?

Honestly, do you think God is upset with humans for celebrating the birth of the savior on the wrong calendar day?

Artsylady - you sure do "feel sorry" for a lot of people

You're right. I do.

[jeffnevins]

Thanks for pointing out the sun god worship on Dec. 25th came after Christ.

Unfortunately, someone I know stated:

Egyptians worshiped Horus on Dec. 25th 3000 years before Jesus was born.

Horus was miraculously born of the virgin Isis-Meri. His birth was accompanied by a star in the east, which in turn, three kings followed to worship him.

And centuries before Jesus' birth (according to him).

Attis, of Phyrigia, born of the virgin Nana on December 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days, was resurrected.

Krishna, of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples, and upon his death was resurrected.

Dionysus of Greece, born of a virgin on December 25th, was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine, he was referred to as the "King of Kings," "God's Only Begotten Son," "The Alpha and Omega," and many others, and upon his death, he was resurrected.

Mithra, of Persia, born of a virgin on December 25th, he had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and thus resurrected, he was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others.

I'm a Christian, just wondering how to respond.

Maybe I need to buy a book or find a reference source. Or someone might know. I'm not sure where I'd look in the Bible.

Thanks.

[Vickilynn]

I was going to add this thought much earlier in this um, 'discussion', but decided not to...

I changed my mind this morning upon hearing a somber chorus of "Oh Christmas Tree, Oh Christmas Tree, How lovely are thy branches..."

This song has alwas brought a tear to my eye...

As a young child and hearing the Birth of Christ as read from Luke, was not where my mother would end the story, she always reminded me of His purpose... The crucifixion of Christ and the redemption for all as the result of this sacrifice. Cristmas was always the story of the cross. So as a child, when I heard this song I would always think...

I think back to that tree, the tree that was harvested to make Christ's cross.... It is Him that I see, not a tinseled lighted evergreen when I hear... "Oh Christmas Tree, Oh Christmas tree, How lovely are thy branches.... It is Him that I see, hung on that 'tree' [cross], arms streatched out [the ultimate symbol of love] and offering us everlasting life...

"Oh Christmas Tree, Oh Christmas Tree, How Lovely are Thy Branches..."

Perhaps an obscure train of thought, but that is how a child thinks.... And that is what comes to mind even now after all these years.

Merry Christmas!

Shalom KittyJo,

WOW, what an awesome perspective. So beautiful. I believe I'm going to share that with my children this Christmas. Thank you!!

[Axxman]

Thanks for pointing out the sun god worship on Dec. 25th came after Christ.

Unfortunately, someone I know stated:

Egyptians worshiped Horus on Dec. 25th 3000 years before Jesus was born.

Horus was miraculously born of the virgin Isis-Meri. His birth was accompanied by a star in the east, which in turn, three kings followed to worship him.

And centuries before Jesus' birth (according to him).

Attis, of Phyrigia, born of the virgin Nana on December 25th, crucified, placed in a tomb and after 3 days, was resurrected.

Krishna, of India, born of the virgin Devaki with a star in the east signaling his coming, performed miracles with his disciples, and upon his death was resurrected.

Dionysus of Greece, born of a virgin on December 25th, was a traveling teacher who performed miracles such as turning water into wine, he was referred to as the "King of Kings," "God's Only Begotten Son," "The Alpha and Omega," and many others, and upon his death, he was resurrected.

Mithra, of Persia, born of a virgin on December 25th, he had 12 disciples and performed miracles, and upon his death was buried for 3 days and thus resurrected, he was also referred to as "The Truth," "The Light," and many others.

I'm a Christian, just wondering how to respond.

Maybe I need to buy a book or find a reference source. Or someone might know. I'm not sure where I'd look in the Bible.

Thanks.

Hey Jeff...

These so-called coincidences have been floating around by internet atheists for some time. There is actually very little academic evidence to support ANY of the claims. Just in the case of Horus...

There is no evidence that his mothers name was anything other than Isis. Isis-Meri is made up.

He couldn't have been born on Dec 25th because that didn't exist 3000 BC. Horus is actually born on the last day of the Egyptian month of Khoiak, which corresponds on our calendars to November 15th.

Isis (his mother) was married to Osiris and there is ZERO indication that she was abstinent after marriage (no evidence of virgin birth.)

The star in the East is also fabrication and there is no evidence of it.

Lastly...and to me this proves atheistic tampering...the atheists claim there were three wise men at the birth of Horus, just like Jesus. This is where "professing themselves to be wise" trips them up. The bible never says there were "three" wise men. It only refers to them as Magi. People commonly assume that it was three because of the gifts that were given...but even that is entirely subjective. There could have been 15 Magi, all carrying gifts of Gold, frankinscence, and myrhh. Also, they weren't at the birth of Christ. It took them some time to find him as the bible tells it. Most scholars agree that Jesus was probably two years old when the Magi arrived.

The atheists don't have a working academic knowledge of the bible so they make stuff up that "seems" to fit at first glance...in reality it doesn't in the case of ANY of the parallels your friend mentioned. They are ALL academically challenged and have been since they started floating around on the internet.

[jeffnevins]

Thanks for pointing out the sun god worship on Dec. 25th came after Christ.

.

Hey Jeff...

These so-called coincidences have been floating around by internet atheists for some time. There is actually very little academic evidence to support ANY of the claims. Just in the case of Horus...

There is no evidence that his mothers name was anything other than Isis. Isis-Meri is made up.

He couldn't have been born on Dec 25th because that didn't exist 3000 BC. Horus is actually born on the last day of the Egyptian month of Khoiak, which corresponds on our calendars to November 15th.

Isis (his mother) was married to Osiris and there is ZERO indication that she was abstinent after marriage (no evidence of virgin birth.)

The star in the East is also fabrication and there is no evidence of it.

Lastly...and to me this proves atheistic tampering...the atheists claim there were three wise men at the birth of Horus, just like Jesus. This is where "professing themselves to be wise" trips them up. The bible never says there were "three" wise men. It only refers to them as Magi. People commonly assume that it was three because of the gifts that were given...but even that is entirely subjective. There could have been 15 Magi, all carrying gifts of Gold, frankinscence, and myrhh. Also, they weren't at the birth of Christ. It took them some time to find him as the bible tells it. Most scholars agree that Jesus was probably two years old when the Magi arrived.

The atheists don't have a working academic knowledge of the bible so they make stuff up that "seems" to fit at first glance...in reality it doesn't in the case of ANY of the parallels your friend mentioned. They are ALL academically challenged and have been since they started floating around on the internet.

I really appreciate it 'Man.

I just couldn't figure it out due to lack of info & where to find it, and it was troubling me.

This really helps with being able to address this now & again if needed in the future.

[AnExample]

Let me ask you this. Today, what does December 25 mean to the vast majority? Pagan or Christian holiday?

To me it's neither christian or pagan but a time to have fun, decorating, eating, buying presents; I think that's the way it is with most people; we've modernized it to our own culture and we celebrate it within that context.

That would be pagan. The Christian way is to recognize and worship the LORD Jesus Christ as new born King and Saviour of the World. Just as is recorded in Luke, and Matthew.

Religiously speaking, historically it began as a pagan holiday. Early christians did not celebrate at this time of year for that very reason.......they shunned it.

No it was not, read previous posts.

From a Christian perspective; those who see it entirely as a celebration of the birth of Jesus....-- Those of you who think God doesn't have a problem with this.....what do you think He meant about not adopting pagan/heathen customs? Was God just "messing" with us? Did He really not mean it or has he sofened about it and changed His mind? I mean, the Bible tells us that God's ways are not man's way yet this holiday is "man's ways".....how do you reconcile those verses with statements to the effect of, "I don't really think God will be mad at us for celebrating Jesus' birthday on Dec 25th".

Artsylady - you sure do "feel sorry" for a lot of people

For those who are Christians, we celebrate Christ every day. Christmas is just a day to celebrate the incarnation of His work here on earth. If I didn't celebrate the birth of my Saviour, I'd feel mighty arrogant celebrating my own birthday.

Why do you continue to deny that there was celebrating on the day of His birth? That the celebrations continued and December 25th was recongized as Christ's Birth Day long before [@ 100 years] the Pagans tried to reclaim it as their own.

The Angles rejoiced at the birth of the Saviour, I would consider that, God's way, since He sent the Angels to announce Jesus birth.

We can debate this until times get better; however, the Word of God is truth. The truth is the bible doesn't say that December 25th is Christ's birthday. If it does say it in anyone's bible, it was put there by man as was the word, "Easter." That is the problem with man making his own bibles. God says not one jot or tittle. I love the Lord Jesus Christ; I have a relationship with him and I celebrate him everyday. I believe in his atoning death and I know why He came. I'm glad he came...Lord, knows I need him. He doesn't need us to celebrate him commercially. It's the spirit of greed that guides the market place that has made the Christmas season (which should be spirit led) a time when those who have are separated from them who don't. In fact, the GNP is largely hinged on "Christians" and others doing there greatest spending to keep the economy sound. How did we get here? We could use that money to fund the gospel. Christ wants everyone to hear it and have an opportunity to be saved. Do I celebrate Christmas? Yes, I do however, I know that Jesus grew up, became a man, went to the cross, resurrected. He is Savior! I celebrate His birth as prophesy coming to fruition. The world continues to celebrate him as a baby.

[Guest Biblicist]

Merry Christmas, Everyone!

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

[Vickilynn]

Merry Christmas, Everyone!

"Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men."

SHalom,

AMEN AND AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Merry Christmas!