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So, for them it is not required to accept Jesus. I am Jew and I think I know the commandments do not require that. I think we agree then that the requirement of accepting Jesus is not global. There are exception. OK? Actually, there are no exceptions. As you probably know, Jesus was Jewish, and claimed to be the Jewish Messiah. He came to Israel to show the Jewish people who He was. The Apostles were Jewish. Strangely enough, the debate back then was, what is required of the Gentiles. In this world, there are Jews and there are Gentiles. That covers everyone.

Hallo, I am new here so I am trying to learn more about Christianity. If salvation is only by faith then all people who never knew of Jesus or the Bible are not saved. Because I dont think you can have faith on something unknown. Are there exception for them?

Absolutely.

I did many social works, charity works in rural areas,, but nothing is saved me,,,, i am Saved by grace not by works... Thank you Jesus

Why?What is your concern with bringing up old threads? Mostly that i remember a lot of the people that originally posted the threads (I've been posting here for almost nine years) and it's a little deflating not knowing what happened to them. When I come across one of my own comments from years ago I'm like 'What? Did I write that?' Pulling up old threads really serves no purpose (I'm talking about threads over a year old) and if some of our newer members want to discuss something, they should start their own thread. Good grief, it's not that hard to do. It would surely be less work than digging around back to 1999 when this forum was created.

It's about "Time". I've been hammering this on forums for better than 3 years now. Very refreshing to read this... it made my day, kudos to you sir.

Http://reconstructionist89.wordpress.com

As an apologist, one of the things i hear a lot when I debate atheists is there is no evidence for the miracles. There is no extra-biblical evidence, written about any of the things Jesus said or did. But one thing I like to point to is the three hours of darkness that proceeded Christ's death on the cross. 3 of the 4 gospels write about it: Matthew 27:45 Now from the sixth hour there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour. Mark 15:33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. Luke 23:44-48 And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour. 45 And the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst. 46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost. 47 Now when the centurion saw what was done, he glorified God, saying, Certainly this was a righteous man. 48 And all the people that came together to that sight, beholding the things which were done, smote their breasts, and returned. How is this a miracle? 1) It wasn't an eclipse. The crucifixion took place during the Passover. Passover happens during a full moon. Eclipses only happen when there's a new moon. A new moon is when the moon is between the earth and the sun, so there is no reflection of light. A full moon occurs when the moon is on the opposite end of the earth, fully reflecting the sun's light. So being that it was a full moon during the Passover at the crucifixion, the darkness could not have been an eclipse. 2) It lasted for three hours. Eclipses happen for only a few minutes. 3) It was prophecied Amos 8:9 where it says: “And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day.” 4) There are extra-biblical sources: This is one of many sites that lists the extra-biblical sources: http://daybydaywithjesus.com/three-hour-period-of-darkness-at-the-crucifixion/ What do you think of this phenomenon?

That means there is no symbolism. Now you reverse yourself and say there is symbolism, which means your statement that "all should be taken literally" is false. Literal and symbolic are mutually exclusive terms. If it is ALL to be take literally as you claimed, then that means nothing is symbolic. So which is it? There is symbolism please see post # 67

That's what I've been saying bopeep. I am saying it all should be taken literally. Then why have you not yet cut off your hands and feet, or plucked out your eyes? Matthew 18:8-9 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. This is long but it is important Question: "How can I recognize and understand biblical symbolism?" Answer: The language of the Bible is rich with metaphor. The biblical writers used familiar, everyday objects to symbolize spiritual truth. Symbols are quite common in the poetic and prophetic portions of the Bible. By its very nature, poetry relies heavily on figurative language; when Solomon calls his bride “a lily among thorns” (Song of Solomon 2:2), he is using symbols to declare the desirability and uniqueness of the Shulamite. Prophecy, too, contains much figurative imagery. Isaiah often used trees and forests as symbols of strength (e.g., Isaiah 10:18-19;32:19). Daniel saw “a goat with a prominent horn between his eyes” who “came from the west . . . without touching the ground” (Daniel 8:5), and we interpret this as a kingdom (Greece) and its king (Alexander the Great) who speedily conquered the world. Jesus’ teaching was full of symbolism. He presented Himself as a Shepherd, a Sower, a Bridegroom, a Door, a Cornerstone, a Vine, Light, Bread, and Water. He likened the kingdom of heaven to a wedding feast, a seed, a tree, a field, a net, a pearl, and yeast. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of other symbols in the Bible. Note that a literal interpretation of the Bible allows for figurative language. Here’s a simple rule: if the literal meaning of a passage leads to obvious absurdity, but a figurative meaning yields clarity, then the passage is probably using symbols. For example, in Exodus 19:4, God tells Israel, “I carried you on eagles’ wings.” A literal reading of this statement would lead to absurdity—God did not use real eagles to airlift His people out of Egypt. The statement is obviously symbolic; God is emphasizing the speed and strength with which He delivered Israel. This leads to another rule of biblical interpretation: a symbol will have a non-symbolic meaning. In other words, there is something real (a real person, a real historical event, a real trait) behind every figure of speech. Here are a few symbols used in the Bible: Old Testament Walk with God: To "walk" with someone is to live in fellowship and harmony with him. Since God can only live in a way that reflects His holy character, to "walk with God" is to live according the path He has laid out, to obey Him. Genesis 5:22; 6:9; Deuteronomy 10:12; Joshua 22:5; 1 Kings 8:23; Micah 6:8 Dust, stars, sand: The Bible often uses these metaphors to represent the number of descendants God promised to Abraham. This would include Abraham’s physical descendants (Jews and Arabs) as well as Abraham’s spiritualprogeny (those who live by faith, Galatians 3:7). Genesis 13:16; 15:5; 26:4; 28:14; 32:12; Exodus 32:13; Isaiah 48:19; Jeremiah 33:22; Hebrews 11:12 Flowing with milk and honey: God often referred to Canaan as "a land flowing with milk and honey." An abundance of milk and honey was symbolic of lush, fertile farmland, plenty of water, and rich grass for dairy animals and flowers for bees. Milk and honey were two of the most prized foods in Old Testament times, and a land "flowing" with them would be very desirable. Exodus 3:8; 17; 13:5; 33:3; Leviticus 20:24; Numbers 13:27; 14:8; 16:13, 14; Deuteronomy 6:3; 11:9; 26:9, 15;27:3; 31:20; Josh. 5:6; Song of Solomon 4:11; 5:1; Isaiah 7:22; Jeremiah 11:5, 32:22; Ezekiel 20:6, 15 Circumcised hearts: Physical circumcision was the sign of the covenant between God and His chosen people, the Jews. It was, of course, an external alteration. What God really wanted, though, was an internal alteration—aspiritual circumcision, as it were. To have one's heart circumcised was to fully identify with Him. It is not enough to obey His Word on the outside; we must be characterized by His Word on the inside. Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6; Jeremiah 4:4; 2:28-29 Cedars of Lebanon: In Israel, large trees were hard to come by and very valuable. The cedars in Lebanon grow up to 130 feet tall with trunks up to eight feet in diameter. They were valued for their resin, which Egyptians used in mummification, and wood, which was used to build ships. The cedars are used symbolically in the Bible to represent strength and stature or pride. Judges 9:15; 2 Kings 19:23; Psalm 29:5; 72:16; 104:16; Song of Solomon 5:15; Isaiah 2:13; 14:8; 37:24; Hosea 14:5-6; Zechariah 11:1 Hearts of stone or flesh: A heart of stone is emblematic of a spiritually dead heart that cannot respond to God's grace. God promises to remove our heart of stone and replace it with a living, loving heart that can follow Him. Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26 Ephraim and Judah: In the divided kingdom, the ten tribes in the north were many times collectively called “Ephraim” after the most prominent tribe living there. The tribes in the south were often referred to as “Judah” after the most prominent southern tribe. This particular figure of speech, in which a part is substituted for the whole, is called metonymy. Isaiah 7:9, 17; 9:21 New Testament Ramah and Rachel: Ramah was a small town about five miles from Jerusalem. Rachel was one of Jacob’s wives buried near Bethlehem (Genesis 35:19). Ramah mourning and Rachel weeping in the book of Jeremiah are symbols of the sadness experienced when Judah was conquered by Babylon and sent into exile. Matthew quotes Jeremiah and furthers the metaphor, applying it to Herod’s massacre of the babies in Bethlehem. Ramah becomes a symbol of Bethlehem, and Rachel becomes a symbol of the grieving mothers there. Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:18 Shaking the dust off one’s feet: In New Testament times, a devout Jew would shake the dust off his feet when he left a Gentile city to symbolically cleanse himself of ungodly practices. Jesus told His disciples to do the same if a Jewish household or village rejected the message of the Messiah. Matthew 10:14; Mark 6:11; Luke 9:5 Whitewashed tombs: A whitewashed tomb is a stone crypt that is clean and well kept on the outside but filled with bones and death. Jesus used this image as a symbol to represent hypocrites—religious people who do not follow God in their hearts. Matthew 23:27; Luke 11:44 Capstone: A capstone is one of the top stones on a wall. Metaphorically, it is the finishing touch or the crowning achievement. Jesus used this symbol of Himself. Mark 12:10; 1 Peter 2:6-7 Slave/servant of Christ: The New Testament writers use the idea of being a slave or servant of Christ to symbolize our responsibility to do the will of Christ and not be self-serving. It is sometimes juxtaposed with its alternative of being a slave to sin; a believer is set free from sin and is now led by the Spirit. An indentured servant, after fulfilling his obligation to his master, could volunteer to stay and serve his master for life—a picture of how we serve Christ willingly. Romans 1:1; Galatians 1:10; Colossians 1:7; 1 Timothy 4:6; Titus 1:1; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:1; Jude 1:1; Revelation 1:1 Animals Serpent: Snakes are mentioned many times in the Bible, and never in a positive light. In Genesis and Revelation, the serpent symbolizes Satan. The serpent of Eden is described as crafty—an idea Jesus reiterates in Matthew 10. In Hebrew, the noun for “serpent” is related to the verb for “divining and fortune-telling.” Genesis 3:1, 14; 49:17; Numbers 21:6; Deuteronomy 32:33; Job 26:13; Psalm 58:4; 91:13; 140:3; Proverbs 23:32;30:19; Isaiah 14:29; 65:25; Matthew 10:16; 23:33; Luke 10:19; Revelation 12:9, 14, 15; 20:2 Lion: Lions in the Bible can represent power. A lion devours prey and lies down without fear. The Bible compares God (Hosea 5:14), Jesus (Revelation 5:5), and even Satan (1 Peter 5:8) to a lion. Genesis 49:9; Numbers 23:24; 24:9; Deuteronomy 33:20, 22; 1 Chronicles 12:8; Job 4:10, 11; 10:16; 28:8; 38:39;Psalm 10:9; 91:13; 104:21; Proverbs 19:12; Ecclesiastes 9:4; Isaiah 5:29; 11:6, 7; Jeremiah 2:15, 30; 4:7; 12:8;Ezekiel 1:10; 19:2, 3; 19:6; Daniel 7:4; 2 Timothy 4:17; Revelation 4:7; 9:17; 10:3 Dog: Dogs in Bible times were not cherished family pets. They were mongrels who ran wild and scavenged. Jews often referred to Gentiles as "dogs"—not a complimentary epithet. Jesus' interaction with the Syro-Phoenician woman in Matthew 15 shows how He ministered to the "dogs" and the children, both. Exodus 11:7; Deuteronomy 23:18; 1 Samuel 17:43; 24:14; 2 Samuel 16:9; Job 30:1; Psalm 22:20, 16; 59:6; 68:23;Proverbs 26:11; 26:17; Ecclesiastes 9:4; Isaiah 56:11; Jeremiah 15:3; Matthew 7:6; 15:27; Philippians 3:2;Revelation 22:15 Sheep: Sheep are herd animals who are amazingly dependent on a shepherd for their well-being. And they are the animal most used by God to symbolize His followers. Jesus is the Good Shepherd, and we are the sheep who recognize His voice, follow Him, and rely on Him for our safety and provision. Numbers 27:17; 1 Kings 22:17; 2 Chronicles 18:16; Psalm 23:1; 44:11, 22; 49:14; 74:1; 78:52; 95:7; 119:176;Isaiah 53:6, 7; Jeremiah 23:1; 50:6; Ezekiel 34:11, 12; 34:17; Matthew 9:36; 10:6; 26:31; John 10:11, 16, 26 We interpret the Bible literally, but this this does not mean we ignore symbols and metaphorical language. God’s written communication to the world is a richly textured literary masterpiece and makes full use of the tools of language, including symbolism, metaphor, simile, and motif. http://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-symbolism.html Bopeep you just said That means there is NO symbolism. NO metaphor. Now you reverse yourself and say there is symbolism, which means your statement that "all should be taken literally" is false. Literal and symbolic are mutually exclusive terms. If it is ALL to be take literally as you claimed, then that means nothing is symbolic. So which is it?

I agree. It seems to me that there should be a formula to calculate a percentage, and a way to have it keep pace with the cost of living. However, this presents a conundrum as any change in wages affects the cost of living as this is passed back to the consumer. As far as what one's major was and how it affects unemployment, this might be surprising - if you want no unemployment, become an astronomer or archaeologist, or work in genetics, http://www.studentsreview.com/unemployment_by_major.php3 From how you interpret this dataset and coming up with the resulting conclusion, it looks like you do not know how to analyze data critically and hence susceptible to misleading statistic and propaganda (like saying how increase minimum wage actually make a difference). https://mises.org/library/yes-minimum-wages-still-increase-unemployment How can you come up with such misleading conclusion from this survey. The results from the survey is statistically insignificant in the majors you said have no unemployment. Only around 20 people responded to the survey of their employment status in astronomy, archeology and genetics. As with any voluntary survey, there is a high degree of selection bias, where only certain groups of people would respond. For example, only people who are employed may respond leading to false representation of the whole population. This survey is neither random nor representative of the market at large, it may at best represent how alumni at this particular school did, even then the sample size is way too small given the population it is trying to represent. To truly have no unemployment is to element minimum wage laws and have a sound money (eliminate Federal Reserve fiat currency), so everyone can get hired at their market rates. You want to increase unemployment?Increasing the minimum wage would get you there. I disagree that there should be minimum wage that adjust to cost of living. This is just crying for more government intervention and abuses. The real question people should be asking is what caused the cost of living to increase, the main culprit is the government and its monetary policy. It is nature of economy on fiat currency to increase cost of living at a faster rate than wages would grow. The government's rapid monetary expansion erodes everyone's spending power causing yesterday's minimum wage to be inadequate today. The government plays dirty, instead of reflecting how it is damaging people's standard of living, it turns around and demonize the business people, saying how they are not paying enough to keep up with standard of living. udx, I didn't interpret the data set, I simply shared what some of the reported results were. It is simply the results of those they received responses from. Lots of room for error. The point of it all is that things are not so black and white as some would make things appear here. The problem with all of this with the proposed minimum wage hike is that it will probably cause more problems than it solves. I think everyone is looking at the wrong problem here to begin with. Everyone is worried about what raising the minimum wage will do. Why is no one worried about our our of control debt, and the fact that there is virtually nothing to back it up? The feds have responded by continuing to lower interest rates to keep the economy from crashing around our heads - we are near the bottom. What happens when the interest rates can't be lowered anymore?

That's what I've been saying bopeep. I am saying it all should be taken literally. Then why have you not yet cut off your hands and feet, or plucked out your eyes? Matthew 18:8-9 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. And if your eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell. Matthew 5:29-30 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell. Mark 9:43 If your hand causes you to stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, where the fire never goes out. This is long but it is important Question: "How can I recognize and understand biblical symbolism?" Answer: The language of the Bible is rich with metaphor. The biblical writers used familiar, everyday objects to symbolize spiritual truth. Symbols are quite common in the poetic and prophetic portions of the Bible. By its very nature, poetry relies heavily on figurative language; when Solomon calls his bride “a lily among thorns” (Song of Solomon 2:2), he is using symbols to declare the desirability and uniqueness of the Shulamite. Prophecy, too, contains much figurative imagery. Isaiah often used trees and forests as symbols of strength (e.g., Isaiah 10:18-19;32:19). Daniel saw “a goat with a prominent horn between his eyes” who “came from the west . . . without touching the ground” (Daniel 8:5), and we interpret this as a kingdom (Greece) and its king (Alexander the Great) who speedily conquered the world. Jesus’ teaching was full of symbolism. He presented Himself as a Shepherd, a Sower, a Bridegroom, a Door, a Cornerstone, a Vine, Light, Bread, and Water. He likened the kingdom of heaven to a wedding feast, a seed, a tree, a field, a net, a pearl, and yeast. There are dozens, if not hundreds, of other symbols in the Bible. Note that a literal interpretation of the Bible allows for figurative language. Here’s a simple rule: if the literal meaning of a passage leads to obvious absurdity, but a figurative meaning yields clarity, then the passage is probably using symbols. For example, in Exodus 19:4, God tells Israel, “I carried you on eagles’ wings.” A literal reading of this statement would lead to absurdity—God did not use real eagles to airlift His people out of Egypt. The statement is obviously symbolic; God is emphasizing the speed and strength with which He delivered Israel. This leads to another rule of biblical interpretation: a symbol will have a non-symbolic meaning. In other words, there is something real (a real person, a real historical event, a real trait) behind every figure of speech. Here are a few symbols used in the Bible: Old Testament Walk with God: To "walk" with someone is to live in fellowship and harmony with him. Since God can only live in a way that reflects His holy character, to "walk with God" is to live according the path He has laid out, to obey Him. Genesis 5:22; 6:9; Deuteronomy 10:12; Joshua 22:5; 1 Kings 8:23; Micah 6:8 Dust, stars, sand: The Bible often uses these metaphors to represent the number of descendants God promised to Abraham. This would include Abraham’s physical descendants (Jews and Arabs) as well as Abraham’s spiritualprogeny (those who live by faith, Galatians 3:7). Genesis 13:16; 15:5; 26:4; 28:14; 32:12; Exodus 32:13; Isaiah 48:19; Jeremiah 33:22; Hebrews 11:12 Flowing with milk and honey: God often referred to Canaan as "a land flowing with milk and honey." An abundance of milk and honey was symbolic of lush, fertile farmland, plenty of water, and rich grass for dairy animals and flowers for bees. Milk and honey were two of the most prized foods in Old Testament times, and a land "flowing" with them would be very desirable. Exodus 3:8; 17; 13:5; 33:3; Leviticus 20:24; Numbers 13:27; 14:8; 16:13, 14; Deuteronomy 6:3; 11:9; 26:9, 15;27:3; 31:20; Josh. 5:6; Song of Solomon 4:11; 5:1; Isaiah 7:22; Jeremiah 11:5, 32:22; Ezekiel 20:6, 15 Circumcised hearts: Physical circumcision was the sign of the covenant between God and His chosen people, the Jews. It was, of course, an external alteration. What God really wanted, though, was an internal alteration—aspiritual circumcision, as it were. To have one's heart circumcised was to fully identify with Him. It is not enough to obey His Word on the outside; we must be characterized by His Word on the inside. Deuteronomy 10:16; 30:6; Jeremiah 4:4; 2:28-29 Cedars of Lebanon: In Israel, large trees were hard to come by and very valuable. The cedars in Lebanon grow up to 130 feet tall with trunks up to eight feet in diameter. They were valued for their resin, which Egyptians used in mummification, and wood, which was used to build ships. The cedars are used symbolically in the Bible to represent strength and stature or pride. Judges 9:15; 2 Kings 19:23; Psalm 29:5; 72:16; 104:16; Song of Solomon 5:15; Isaiah 2:13; 14:8; 37:24; Hosea 14:5-6; Zechariah 11:1 Hearts of stone or flesh: A heart of stone is emblematic of a spiritually dead heart that cannot respond to God's grace. God promises to remove our heart of stone and replace it with a living, loving heart that can follow Him. Ezekiel 11:19; 36:26 Ephraim and Judah: In the divided kingdom, the ten tribes in the north were many times collectively called “Ephraim” after the most prominent tribe living there. The tribes in the south were often referred to as “Judah” after the most prominent southern tribe. This particular figure of speech, in which a part is substituted for the whole, is called metonymy. Isaiah 7:9, 17; 9:21 New Testament Ramah and Rachel: Ramah was a small town about five miles from Jerusalem. Rachel was one of Jacob’s wives buried near Bethlehem (Genesis 35:19). Ramah mourning and Rachel weeping in the book of Jeremiah are symbols of the sadness experienced when Judah was conquered by Babylon and sent into exile. Matthew quotes Jeremiah and furthers the metaphor, applying it to Herod’s massacre of the babies in Bethlehem. Ramah becomes a symbol of Bethlehem, and Rachel becomes a symbol of the grieving mothers there. Jeremiah 31:15; Matthew 2:18 Shaking the dust off one’s feet: In New Testament times, a devout Jew would shake the dust off his feet when he left a Gentile city to symbolically cleanse himself of ungodly practices. Jesus told His disciples to do the same if a Jewish household or village rejected the message of the Messiah. Matthew 10:14; Mark 6:11; Luke 9:5 Whitewashed tombs: A whitewashed tomb is a stone crypt that is clean and well kept on the outside but filled with bones and death. Jesus used this image as a symbol to represent hypocrites—religious people who do not follow God in their hearts. Matthew 23:27; Luke 11:44 Capstone: A capstone is one of the top stones on a wall. Metaphorically, it is the finishing touch or the crowning achievement. Jesus used this symbol of Himself. Mark 12:10; 1 Peter 2:6-7 Slave/servant of Christ: The New Testament writers use the idea of being a slave or servant of Christ to symbolize our responsibility to do the will of Christ and not be self-serving. It is sometimes juxtaposed with its alternative of being a slave to sin; a believer is set free from sin and is now led by the Spirit. An indentured servant, after fulfilling his obligation to his master, could volunteer to stay and serve his master for life—a picture of how we serve Christ willingly. Romans 1:1; Galatians 1:10; Colossians 1:7; 1 Timothy 4:6; Titus 1:1; James 1:1; 2 Peter 1:1; Jude 1:1; Revelation 1:1 Animals Serpent: Snakes are mentioned many times in the Bible, and never in a positive light. In Genesis and Revelation, the serpent symbolizes Satan. The serpent of Eden is described as crafty—an idea Jesus reiterates in Matthew 10. In Hebrew, the noun for “serpent” is related to the verb for “divining and fortune-telling.” Genesis 3:1, 14; 49:17; Numbers 21:6; Deuteronomy 32:33; Job 26:13; Psalm 58:4; 91:13; 140:3; Proverbs 23:32;30:19; Isaiah 14:29; 65:25; Matthew 10:16; 23:33; Luke 10:19; Revelation 12:9, 14, 15; 20:2 Lion: Lions in the Bible can represent power. A lion devours prey and lies down without fear. The Bible compares God (Hosea 5:14), Jesus (Revelation 5:5), and even Satan (1 Peter 5:8) to a lion. Genesis 49:9; Numbers 23:24; 24:9; Deuteronomy 33:20, 22; 1 Chronicles 12:8; Job 4:10, 11; 10:16; 28:8; 38:39;Psalm 10:9; 91:13; 104:21; Proverbs 19:12; Ecclesiastes 9:4; Isaiah 5:29; 11:6, 7; Jeremiah 2:15, 30; 4:7; 12:8;Ezekiel 1:10; 19:2, 3; 19:6; Daniel 7:4; 2 Timothy 4:17; Revelation 4:7; 9:17; 10:3 Dog: Dogs in Bible times were not cherished family pets. They were mongrels who ran wild and scavenged. Jews often referred to Gentiles as "dogs"—not a complimentary epithet. Jesus' interaction with the Syro-Phoenician woman in Matthew 15 shows how He ministered to the "dogs" and the children, both. Exodus 11:7; Deuteronomy 23:18; 1 Samuel 17:43; 24:14; 2 Samuel 16:9; Job 30:1; Psalm 22:20, 16; 59:6; 68:23;Proverbs 26:11; 26:17; Ecclesiastes 9:4; Isaiah 56:11; Jeremiah 15:3; Matthew 7:6; 15:27; Philippians 3:2;Revelation 22:15 Sheep: Sheep are herd animals who are amazingly dependent on a shepherd for their well-being. And they are the animal most used by God to symbolize His followers. Jesus is the Good Shepherd, and we are the sheep who recognize His voice, follow Him, and rely on Him for our safety and provision. Numbers 27:17; 1 Kings 22:17; 2 Chronicles 18:16; Psalm 23:1; 44:11, 22; 49:14; 74:1; 78:52; 95:7; 119:176;Isaiah 53:6, 7; Jeremiah 23:1; 50:6; Ezekiel 34:11, 12; 34:17; Matthew 9:36; 10:6; 26:31; John 10:11, 16, 26 We interpret the Bible literally, but this this does not mean we ignore symbols and metaphorical language. God’s written communication to the world is a richly textured literary masterpiece and makes full use of the tools of language, including symbolism, metaphor, simile, and motif. http://www.gotquestions.org/biblical-symbolism.html

No, I think Hypothetical Woman should beat him to death with a frying pan (if they haven't all been repossessed).

If you read my response it is in defense of Christian theism not the contrary

In all seriousness and without arrogance I assumed this apologetic board was for this type of issue. And Paul didnt hesitate to reason with the greeks in Acts 17. If this type of linking to blogs isn't allowed I will not do so. I apologize I was not aware.

I am not into the conspiracy theory on 9/11 I have heard a couple of them.

Davida, I agree. Which is why his living the words, which can only be done through the power of the Holy Spirit, is so humbling and inspiring.

Jeff I knew your heart would be hardened. I pray God softens your heart and gives you eyes to see the faith of those you ridicule and condemn.

I have been reduced to tears reading letters by a man, Alfred Delp, condemned to execution by the Nazis because of his faith, written during the months he awaited his death. I have been humbled by this man's faith in God, his gentle heart, his trust in Jesus. Convicted with others, such as Helmuth James Graf von Moltke, a protestant and wealthy landowner, in a trial held after the attempt on Hitler's life, which they were not participants in (and had been cleared of), the reasons for their conviction and sentencing for execution were in essence because they were christians and planned for a future without Hitler and Nazism. They were Protestants and Catholics. From the wiki article on Moltke: Moltke claimed that he stood before the court "...not as a Protestant, not as a great landowner, not as an aristocrat, not as a Prussian, not as a German...but as a Christian and nothing else".[12] He wrote: "But what the Third Reich is so terrified of ... is ultimately the following: a private individual, your husband, of whom it is established that he discussed with 2 clergymen of both denominations [Protestant and Catholic] ... questions of the practical, ethical demands of Christianity. Nothing else; for that alone we are condemned.... I just wept a little, not because I was sad or melancholy ... but because I am thankful and moved by this proof of God's presence."[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmuth_James_Graf_von_Moltke Alfred Delp wrote of what transpired with Moltke: The trial continued the next day, with Moltke and Gerstenmaier as the defendants. as a gesture of courtesy to Moltke's wife, who had asked Freisler personally that her husband be allowed to sit because of his painful sciatica, the judge had a chair provided for him. And then, according to Milteke's account, Friesler proceeded to pour invective: Defeatism! Planning a future Germany constitution! High Treason! Finally came Moltke's most damning activity of all, consorting with Jesuits and with bishops: "A Jesuit Father, and with him of all people you discuss questions of civil disobedience! And you know the Jesuit Provincial too!.... A Jesuit Provincial, one of the highest officials of Germany's most dangerous enemies...And you're not ashamed of it! No German would touch a Jesuit with a barge-pole!... If I know there is a Jesuit Provincial in a town, it is almost a reason for me not to go to that town!... And you visit bishops! What is your business with a bishop, with any bishop?" Alfred Delp's crime was he a Catholic and a Jesuit: Dear Brothers Here I am at the parting of the ways and I must take the other road after all. The death sentence ha been passed and the atmosphere is so charged with enmity and hatred that no appeal has any hope of succeeding. I thank the Society and my brothers for all their goodness and loyalty and help, especially during these last weeks. I ask pardon for much that was untrue and unjust; and I beg that a little help and care may be given to my aged, sick parents. The actual reason for my condemnation was that I happened to be, and chose to remain, a jesuit. There is nothing to show that I had any connection with the attempt on Hitler's life, so I was acquitted on that count.... The rest of the accusations were far less serious and more factual. There was one underlying theme - a Jesuit is a priori an enemy and betrayer of the Reich. Moltke was treated abominably as well because he was associated with us, especially with Rosch. So the whole proceedings turned into a sort of comedy developing a theme. It was not justice - it was simply the carrying out of the determination to destroy. Good people, Well, so now I'm going down the other road. Whatever God wills. Let it all be done and given over into his freedom and goodness. May God reward you for all your kindness and love. That was no court of law, but rather an orgey of hate.... The incriminating points in the initial charge didn't stand. The way the trial was carried out has provided my life with its true life-and-death purpose. The grounds for the charge that came up at the trial boiled down to the following four incriminations 1. Thinking about a future for Germany after a possible defeat 2. The incompatibility between Nazism and Christianity. Thus my thinking was false and dangerous, because it was based on this conviciton (the "re-Christianizing idea" that they've accused Moltke of is an "attack against Germany"). 3. The Society of Jesus is a treat and any Jesuit is a degenerate. We're fundamentally an enemy of Germany. 4. Catholic teaching on iustitia socialis [social justice] as the basis for a future socialism. As I read in his letters his unwavering faith in God through the long days of loneliness, deprivation, not knowing each day if it would be his last or if by some miracle he would be set free, yielding everything in total, sweet surrender to God, tears began to fall from my eyes. A fellow prisoner who worked as a helper to the Catholic chaplain Peter Buchholz arranged for him to receive communion. When the prisoner visited Delp afterwards, he saw a physical wreck of a man, his face pale and emaciated, his eyes sunken. He asked whether Delp would like something to read. Delp asked for The Imitation of Christ. Two more days of waiting. One afternoon of Friday, February 2, the feast of Purification and a traditional day for Jesuits to make their vows, Buchholz was told that Delp would soon be executed. The chaplain went to cell 317. Inside, Delp, weakened from fear, struggle against despair, and a six-month preparation for death, still wondered if there might be hope of being saved from the rope. Could the Russian troops not get to Berlin in the next few minutes? Could history not run faster? Buchholz had no answer. Delp's gaunt face then lit up with the playful smile of a child. "In half an hour," he said, "I will know more than you do." The execution building was a short distance away. Walking upright, shoulders squared, and wearing the wooden shoes given to those about to be executed, Delp was led to the door of the building at about three o'clock in the afternoon. The execution formula was read out: "You have been sentenced by the People's Court to death by hanging. Executioner, do your duty." The usual Plotzensee procedure was then no doubt followed: he ws led foward, stripped to the wawist, and guided under one of the hooks along a bar under the ceiling. The executioner, as likely as not, fortified with brandy, placed a rope around his neck and hoisted him up. His prison pants were yanked off and his naked body struggled and twitched, then slackened, then became still. The executioner made his routine pronouncement: "The sentence has been carried out." Elsewhere in the prison, the form on which he had signed over his clothes was pulled from a pile and the date stamped in: 2 Feb,. 1945. "for the glory of your name may we be mercifully set free." The bodies of condemened prisoners of Plotzensee were customarily burned; orders had been given after July 20 that the ashes f those implicatedin the assassination plot be strewn over the sewage waste. No record exist of exactly what happened to Delp's cremated remains, and it is presumed that they were disposed of in the same way as the ashes of all the others. Later, a pair of broken eyeglasses, a rosary, and a copy of The Imitation of Christ were found in cell 317. https://books.google.com/books?id=7nzqvhGHcd8C&pg=PA180&lpg=PA180&dq=%22heresy+against+the+third+reich%22&source=bl&ots=dHtMFijyOr&sig=w6gAtK8KokPSVNfwp8_Drzi4Cec&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAGoVChMI2frlhNiMxwIVzhGSCh2Hjgvd#v=onepage&q=%22heresy%20against%20the%20third%20reich%22&f=false A postscript: Then, on the following day, February 3, the air-raid siren sounded just as another trial was beginning in the People's Court. as Freisler scrambled down the stairs, clutching the defendant's file, the building received a direct hit. The ceiling caved in and a beam fell on Freisler, crushing his skull.

Jesus said " I am the light of the world" In the Gospel of Jonh chapter one is repeated the same thing. Jesus was the light of the world from the beggining. This was a sign from God that the Light is gone from the world. This darkness came at the same time Jesus died. The light left the world, descended to the very depths of the earth. But it will come back in three days. The three our, symbolize the three days the light of the world, won't be shining on the earth but it will light the underworld. But the light will come out from there in three days. The world will be without the light for three days, that's what the three hours of darkness means. It was a sign from God.

As I have mentioned in another thread, we are to simply leave fools to their folly. There are much better things to do with our limited time and resources. I agree Ezra

Jesus is real. He is God in human form and is alive and well. My road map for this life is God's Word, the Bible. I need nothing more. And please we do not allow links to be posted unless it is OK'd by a board monitor so please don't be surprised if your link you posted is removed. We would love to have you here at Worthy but we also want you to know the truth of God and His Love for us. That is why He sent His only Son Jesus to die for us on the cross. We have a chat room if you wish to come in and speak to us one on one. We would be thrilled to share the truth of Christ with you.

I have requested this post and it's website to be removed.

As I have mentioned in another thread, we are to simply leave fools to their folly. There are much better things to do with our limited time and resources.

As the author said, their anti-religious polemics are predictable, but someone should still refute it. Actually Scripture tells us to leave fools to their folly (Prov 23:9; 26:4).

Jesus is real.Those words are right from Satan's mouth.

If a teacher of relativity tells you that austronauts can travell faster then light, then you need another teacher. So, maybe he did not say tht really, I hope. That nothing can travel faster than ligth is a basic consequence of relativity. So, I do not believe that about relativity also.

There is no difference between the two...so he is a witch. But, even if there was a difference it would make none to this conversation, either way he's not a super hero, just a dorky kid with a funny hat!

Give me Isaac Newton and his hymns any day.

I think so, as Christian observers we except that God is open and up front in His mysterious creations, although we may not fathom them, we may discover aspects which are not deceptive or self contradictory, rather like a small piece which is consistent and reflective of the greater. Relativity kind of states that if our reality is a DVD Movie that it can be played at any speed, relative to another DVD, and we cannot know how fast we are being played, except by comparing ourselves with the other DVD. It means that whatever goes on in the movie is consistent within itself, as well as for our speeding astronaut, who is travelling beyond the speed of light. But it also suggests that the other DVD for the astronaut is not a DVD. Which makes sense, if and only if, the parameters of matter are what we currently suppose. But I think there are greater contexts which we don't know about yet. Help. Sorry it took so long to get back to you, i had trouble at a previous connection. Your last line is what i want to address. Einstein and others di dnot formulate their theories from the real origin of the universe. All of their calculations are based upon their idea of how the universe came into being. In other words, they are using different parameters for their work so even though Einstein once said 'the math is correct' it really isn't.

Someone might ask: "Since it is wrong for Christians to be against miscegenation, isn't it also wrong for them to be against same-sex marriage?" No, for while the Bible is not against miscegenation (Numbers 12), it is against homosexuality (Romans 1:26-27). So when the U.S. government, for example, struck down anti-miscegenation state laws, it wasn't going against Biblical Christianity. But if the government ever forces Christians to support same-sex marriages, it will be going against the Bible. And so it will become anti-Christian, helping to prepare the way for the future Antichrist and his Satanic, one-world religion (Revelation 13:4-18).

So.... Much in our Universe yet to be discovered...and we must REMEMBER... GOD WAYS... Are past FINDING OUT. He only Reveals to us what is necessary. And think... If a man lives a Hundred Years or more What can He Carry away with Him or Her to to the Grave nothing... Zilch. We arrived here without knowledge or understanding. And truly all wisdom is with the CREATOR. Let's be HUMBLE and GIVE HIM THE GLORY and go QUIETLY regardless of their FINDINGS

I think so, as Christian observers we except that God is open and up front in His mysterious creations, although we may not fathom them, we may discover aspects which are not deceptive or self contradictory, rather like a small piece which is consistent and reflective of the greater. Relativity kind of states that if our reality is a DVD Movie that it can be played at any speed, relative to another DVD, and we cannot know how fast we are being played, except by comparing ourselves with the other DVD. It means that whatever goes on in the movie is consistent within itself, as well as for our speeding astronaut, who is travelling beyond the speed of light. But it also suggests that the other DVD for the astronaut is not a DVD. Which makes sense, if and only if, the parameters of matter are what we currently suppose. But I think there are greater contexts which we don't know about yet. Help.

the problem i found with einstein's thinking is that he puts gravity as in charge or ruling time and that just can't be. time is a non-material concept thus gravity has no effect on it. Gravity may affect the clock mechanism, no matter their design, but the mechanism does not originate time it merely measures it. if a clock moves slowly that does not mean that time has slowed down but that there is a problem with the mechanism

The first classic example, we were given at school, was the astronaut travelling faster than light and returning to earth with serious time discrepancies. This kind of rational demands a universe without context, we actually have no reference as to how fast time is passing on a universal scale where there can be extremes with objects travelling faster than light. But somehow it is insisted that we are that prime reference, that the speed of light on our level of matter is that context for all other measurements. Well that is limiting the extremes offered in the universe by our own experience. Once again the earth (we) are the center of the universe. I doubt that. The contexts of time have to be what God knows and what He intends and delivers, He even says that time is relative to Himself. So if God has set the pace of time for the earth, it will not be out of context with the rest of the universe. Otherwise we would have confusion every time an angel traveled beyond light speed, he would arrive forwards or backwards in time, younger and older, massless or massive, whatever. I am not saying there are no natural ways around this, but the theory of relativity seems to lack integrity. Saying that something traveling faster than light alters the passing of time relative to another object, reminds me of the superstitions people had about flying faster than the speed of sound. "The pilot will pass out and die." "There's another dimension." "The aircraft will blow apart." In regards to the atomic clock experiment, was it tested the other way around the earth?

I agree completely. Relativity has not been understood by its best students. It is uncharacteristic for a genuine truth to be too complex to be understood. People who say they understand relativity etc, understand the theories, but not its implications, which are self defeating when applied to the intricacies of nature. The works of nature are those of Christ who was profound in His delivery - the simplicity of a child and the sophistication of a Creator. Mysteries in nature have answers that a child can unveil, and yet how difficult to find them without faith. I have never believed in relativistic theories, because they don't have a context greater than the theory. It is a way of trying to explain a phenomenon without resorting to other unknown powers which God has ordained. The pioneers of the 18th and 19th centuries, were heavily involved in the mysteries of some sort of medium for matter, suggesting that matter is both produced and supported by the same. But the world went for the self existent style of defining matter. When you say that you do nor believe relativistic theory, can I ask what part you do not believe? I am graduating in phisics and I studied relativity a lot. Maybe I can help

Some who kick the hardest against the goads are under the conviction of the Holy Spirit, and are close to coming to Him. Others harden their hearts even more and, despite their need for God's forgiveness and rest, they persist in their scornful tirades. These need love even more. So we bless them and do good to them, heaping burning coals upon their heads. Willa

Don't be deceived for the breath of the Lord will destroy him, hold fast wait for the lord. 2 O Lord, be gracious unto us; we have waited for thee: be thou their arm every morning, our salvation also in the time of trouble. It will a very bad time for the sinners in Sion on Earth. 14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings? They will brake the covenant with the Lord and destroy citys not few. 8 The highways lie waste, the wayfaring man ceaseth: he hath broken the covenant, he hath despised the cities, he regardeth no man. Them that are to die will die, they that fight with a sword will die by the sword, them that are capture will be captured. 3 At the noise of the tumult the people fled; at the lifting up of thyself the nations were scattered. 4 And your spoil shall be gathered like the gathering of the caterpiller: as the running to and fro of locusts shall he run upon them. They have gave wicked council to the nations of the world and made them weak. Wait on the Lord 23 Thy tacklings are loosed; they could not well strengthen their mast, they could not spread the sail: then is the prey of a great spoil divided; the lame take the prey. 24 And the inhabitant shall not say, I am sick: the people that dwell therein shall be forgiven their iniquity. Wait on the Lord 7 Thine eyes shall see the king in his beauty: they shall behold the land that is very far off. Wait on the Lord 9 Thou shalt not see a fierce people, a people of a deeper speech than thou canst perceive; of a stammering tongue, that thou canst not understand. Wait on the Lord 0 Now will I rise, saith the Lord; now will I be exalted; now will I lift up myself. Wait on the Lord. 2 O Lord, be gracious unto us; we have waited for thee: be thou their arm every morning, our salvation also in the time of trouble. Wait on the Lord 16 He shall dwell on high: his place of defence shall be the munitions of rocks: bread shall be given him; his waters shall be sure. WAIT ON THE LORD BLESSED BE HIS NAME.

Do any of you know where Paul had already spoken of this revealing of the lawless one? Evidently Paul had disclosed this to the Thessalonians earlier. Since it is not recorded in 1 Thessalonians and only mentioned in 2 Thessalonians, we must conclude that it was a part of his oral preaching and teaching while with the Thessalonians.

This thread came to mind today, after 6 years. I had to search and search to find it...but I needed to read it. Whoever else this ministers too, I am so very glad. In His Love, Suzanne

I do find that fascinating! However, one thing about the rebuttal of miracles that always frustrates me is this: over the last 100 or so years the Bible has been reduced to "just another piece of historical data" to be used like any other historical piece in reconstructing an image of the past. And yet (how ironic) it is rarely consulted even as a secular book in that process. If Josephus says something that contradicts the Bible, Josephus wins, every time (this is an exaggeration, but not by much). The Bible is "guilty till proven innocent" whereas other works are given a fair hearing--why the prejudice? If they insist on treating the Bible as "just another ancient document" then treat it as such. Again, to require "extra-Biblical" evidence reveals a confusion. The Bible was not written by a single author (excepting, of course, THE AUTHOR behind the authors) and at some point in history you had many pieces of evidence, not just "The Bible", as if it were written from start to finish in a single leather binding. Thus Paul's revelation of Christ and the miracles recorded in the gospels should not be treated as a single testimony "from the Bible" but as two independent testimonies. Luke speaks of following eye-witnesses (plural). The author of John's gospel declares to be an eyewitness. The Bible was compiled centuries (I forget my Church history classes--4th c.?) after the events recorded in it. Before the New TEstament was compiled, all we had were "extra-Biblical" testimonies of miracles. clb

Oh yeah I think God personally ripped it in half. I can just imagine the horror on the Pharisee's faces.

I'm not sure the earthquake ripped it..... that veil took something supernatural to tear apart like that. It's my understanding that the thing is/was three feet thick....

Yeah I would love to know what it was as well. And to happen right at the moment of Christ's death and an earthquake that ripped the veil in two. Amazing stuff happened.

Amen! if God can speak this whole world into existence in just six days this is no problem for Him!

I think I would want to know more about the darkness. It is intriguing to ponder the possibilities. Tertullian back in the second century says it was a global thing and not just local. I don't remember why he said that.. but if it was true then it had to be a cosmic event, not just heavy clouds or a storm. almost like Creation itself just couldn't watch..

I understand that to God it's 'no big deal'. My point is that it is really the only miracle that is actually provable with historical evidence. People can even dispute Christ ever existed and they wonder where all the extra-biblical evidence is (I believe there's a lot, some think there's none.) Even more people believe Jesus lived, but He was nothing more than a good man with nice sayings. But here we are with actual proof of a supernatural event that was historically recorded by biblical and extra-biblical sources and CANNOT in any way be explained by science.

considering what I personally know about my God I would have to say that it's really no big deal...

Hi TSTH Great post and spot on. Now if you want a PC based bible, google ESWORD its free and have lots of options, saves grabbing scripture off the net, and yes the chruches that people attend are not the Lords, they are mens, they have mens titles, they are built by men run by men, paid for by men, and have men teaching mens wisdom from mens knowledge. If you are in Christ you have no need for " the church", Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you. So if you need to worship our Lord Jesus, then do it at home,, while you are driving, whi;e you are working, when you need to learn, take it to Him and let Him reveal the truth to you, for He said, " (Mat 7:7) Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: (Mat 7:8) For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened. Jesus is all you need, seek His truth and not the wisdom or understanding of men. they will only deceive you. In His LOve

Dear Stormy, It has been a while since I've been posting here. Just wanted to say I am very glad that this thread ministered to you!!! Stay strong in the Word!!! God bless you. In His Love, Suzanne