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Zemke Your post caught my attention because my dad confessed to me the other day that he was abused by a Catholic priest as a child. My dad is 68 and has never told a soul. My dad is a lovely man, but at times he can go into a rage that cannot be controlled. All my life I have been trying to figure out where this anger came from and my question is now answered. My dad being brought up a strict catholic does not like God now. In his mind, the church that was supposed to represent God has turned him away from God. Now I understand why he has this approach. Yes the Vatican should of banned the practice of priests not marrying a long time ago, but even if they were allowed to marry, I wonder if they would of done the same? If many of the priests were homosexually inclined, why didn't they have sex with each other? Why involve the children? I've always wondered this.

Our understanding of the identity that Adam had before the fall, that identity has been restored to us, that restored identity is the critical foundation for our belief structure and our behavior patterns. Many people that are of the body of Christ have obsessive-compulsive behaviors because of this relentless battle for their minds, and the battle for our mind can only be won as we personally choose truth. A mentally healthy person is one who is in touch with reality and relatively free of anxiety. Rejoice in Christ always, in our minds is what this is all about, everything whether good or evil begins in the arena of our minds. Joy is a trust issue; joy in Christ for a believer is that of a state of mind independent of surrounding circumstances. Rejoicing is the exhibit of that interstate of mind, because no longer do we have to strive to attain and maintain God’s acceptance on the basis of who we are and what we can do, no longer are our sins held against us, no longer does the death penalty for sin hang over us. Joy comes from an understanding of the grace of God, an understanding and appreciation of the resultant peace with God that we now have because of God’s grace. Paul wants us to know at one point in time something was true, but now something else is true. Paul presented the evidence that all people of all time justly deserve the wrath of a perfectly just God, because people glorifies themselves by filtering everything they say and everything they do through that screen of self-protection, self-elevation, and self-gratification. But now, as far as God is concerned, he loved mankind so much that he was willing to let his own son die for sinful people, and have his son pay all the penalties of their sins, forget their rebelliousness and overlook their hostility, while they were still sinners, still rebellious, and still hostile. God made up his mind to become completely reconciled to mankind before people made any signs of making peace with God. God has one-sidedly reconciled himself to mankind through what the death of his son accomplished; all sins and hostility are paid for as far as God is concerned. By removing the sin issue from the table of God’s justice, God effectively canceled Satan’s ownership of all mankind. Those who put on the breastplate of righteousness know that we have peace with God, for a person to have to make their own peace with God would be nothing more than an exercise in futility, it could never be done. We could not make peace with God, to say that anyone could make peace with God, would be to limit God to his mercy, because grace is the foundation on which Paul’s entire ministry was built. There is a glory that belongs to God’s grace, and it is to be praised on the bases on what God’s grace has accomplished.

When we do not understand the doctrinal truths Paul taught pertaining to our sealed identity in Christ, we have no ground for success in the practical arena. When we get our eyes off our new identity, and try to produce in our daily experience the acceptance God has already extended to us, we will struggle, because Satan and his forces will try to convince us that we are an unworthy, unacceptable, sin-sick person who will never amount to anything in God’s eyes. We are saints whom God has declared righteous, believing their lie will lock us into a defeated, fruitless life, but believing God’s truth about who we are will set us free. It is imperative to our growth and maturity that we believe God’s truth about who we are. Our old pattern for thinking and responding to our sin-trained flesh must be transformed by the renewing of our mind, it is our responsibility to change our behavior by putting to death the deeds of the body. The battleground we face is in our mind, and Satan and his forces are at the heart of all sin, and deceive people into believing a lie.

If Satan and his forces can deceive us into believing a lie, they can control our life in that area. God’s protection is that our role is not passive, God requires us to be active participants in the defense that he has provided for us. The belt of truth challenges us to be mentally active, not passive, because unlike our day-to-day emotions, which are the product of our day-to-day thought life, the emotional baggage from the past is always there. Years of exposure and experience in life have etched emotional grooves inside us, which produce a decided reaction when a certain topic is introduced. We may have grown up with a physically, emotionally or sexually abusive parent. We may have suffered through a painful relationship in the past: a broken friendship, the untimely death of a loved one, a divorce. When a present event activates one of those emotional grooves, we believe what we feel instead of believing what is true. Perceiving those events from the perspective of our new identity, which God sealed in Christ, is what starts the process of healing those damaged emotions, because we have the privilege of evaluating our past experience in the light of who we are now, as opposed to who we were then. We must learn how to resolve previous conflicts or the emotional baggage will accumulate as we continue to withdraw from life, the past will control our life as our options for handing it continue to decrease. Those who have had major traumas and have learned to resolve them by wearing the belt of truth know how devastating the past can be to present reality.

We are more vulnerable to Satan and his forces deception than to any of their other schemes, because when they tempt us or accuse us, we can recognize it, but when they deceive us, we do not always know it, that is their strategy, to keep us in the dark. We cannot expose their deception by human reasoning; we can only do it by the light of the truth, it is the only valid piece of the armor against the darkness of deception. It is critical that when we put on the armor of God, we start with the belt of truth, because the only thing big about Satan and his forces are their mouth, they are habitual liars. When we put on the armor of God we are really putting on Christ, and when we put on Christ, we take ourselves out of the realm of the flesh, where we are vulnerable to attack, it is not wise for us to live on Satan and his forces level. Since their primary weapon is the lie, our belt of truth is continually being attacked. If they can disable us in the area of truth, we become an easy target for their other attacks. We stand firm in the truth by relating everything we do to the truth of God’s word, and when we learn to live in the truth on a daily basis, we will grow to love the truth because we will have nothing to hide.

This ministry of reconciliation is not to the saved, we know we are reconciled, but now all have access to God, a change in status for the entire world. Does this mean the entire world is save? No. We have to have an individual change of status and that takes place when we accept what God’s son accomplished for us. Paul wants us to agree with God, to reckon our identity with our flesh as dead and gone, but our choice about good and bad has not died. Do we need to change our minds about the seriousness of sin and God’s answer to that serious dilemma we find ourselves in? Yes, we do.

There are those who mistakenly suppose that reconciliation is the same thing as justification. These people have jumped to the conclusion that Jesus Christ taking the sin issue off the table of God’s justice through his becoming sin for the human race is that which makes a person as righteous as God; they have mistaken reconciliation for justification. Being declared righteous is God’s gift to the believing sinner and it has nothing whatsoever to do with the sinner himself doing anything to deserve or merit that righteous standing.

Even the beasts have it right...

We do not need to start pointing at particular sins, but if we are a slave to sin, whatever sin we are serving, the sin that has us in bondage will exact it’s toll on our flesh. Choices have consequences, the choices we make with serving self have an effect on others which will affect us.

Walk worthy of the vocation that belongs to us, because God has freely given it to us, we have been justified freely, sanctified in Jesus Christ, how should we be conducting ourselves. We should conduct ourselves in a manner conducive to the job that God’s given us, it is our ambassadorship of the message of reconciliation.

What do you mean, every one has his own righteousness believer and unbiever, every one has a consience, and is judge by it and also a group consience, that is judge by it, and a community consience, and so on. But our own rightsneoussness is not the one that takes us blameless before God, if we are worthy anyways.

The fact that Christ became a redeemer of the world, does not mean that the world will accept the gift the Redeemer purchased on their behalf. Christ’s faithfulness was the only faithfulness sufficient to merit God’s favor. God used our faith in Christ’s faithfulness as the means whereby he would credit Christ’s righteousness to our account.

They are both the Antichrist.

Amen. Blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed (Jn 20:29).

Modern humans are brainwashed by education to think that everything should be evidenced for them to believe. This is not how this reality works. In this reality, humans have to rely on faith to reach a truth. First, there are different categories of truths and not all of them can be evidenced. History, especial the part older than 2000 years, can hardly be evidenced. The nature of history as a category of truths is that it is a result of human witnessing which can hardly be evidenced. An event or a figure was famous enough in the past for humans to choose to record them down, that's basically what history is. All today's humans even lost almost all the first hand documents written in ancient scrolls for any piece of history older than 2000 years. We have to put our faith in believing the existing second handed writings to get a clue on what could possibly happened. Human history as a whole demand faith to believe. Do black holes exist? Is the earth revolving around the sun? 99% humans don't even bother to examine the evidence. Or will you be able to show me your evidence of the existence of black holes ? In the end, we choose to swallow with faith about what have been said by a small group of humans acting as direct witnesses (i.e., those we call scientists) in order to get to such a truth. So even in the case of science, 99% human actually don't have the direct evidence before they get the truth that black holes exist (or do they?). That's the typical way of how a truth is conveyed among humans in our reality!

The difference between natural facts and Biblical truths. A natural fact is, “Information used as evidence”, for instance, a pain in a person’s body, Is informing them that it’s evident that something is wrong. [And that is a natural fact]. But the Biblical truth says, by the stripes of Jesus we are healed, Jesus has taken our sicknesses, Infirmities and pains. And faith in what the Bible says, will always overrule natural facts. Once as I was scrolling through the TV channels, I saw Sherlock Holmes, and he said to Watson, “We have been looking at the facts, we need to look at the truth”. What are you looking at today, The natural facts, or the Biblical truths?.

Ministers of righteousness will ever more keep that issue of sins on the table of God’s justice. They will continually want us to do this and stop doing that, in order to keep God happy with us when the reality is: God couldn’t be any happier with us than he is; Christ having taken our sin debt upon himself, and we having trusted what happened where our sins are concerned. Sin is gone as far as the judicial aspect of sin from God’s vantage point. It is taken care of once and for all! People will suffer the second death not because of the sins God’s son pain for. They will suffer the second death because they have never been clothed with the righteousness of Christ. They have kept sin on the table of God’s justice their entire lifetimes and sat under ministers of righteousness who have led the way. Dispensing the message of that new program would not begin until Paul received the revelations necessary to do the dispensing. So, the dispensing of the message did not come when Paul was converted, but we know for a fact, that Paul was judicially joined to Christ at the point of his belief.

I believe it to be a blessing to humbly seek God’s word for us through others who are well learned in the Scriptures, evidenced by the material they present. Such is the following article which I believe exemplifies tenderness in those who share what the Spirit has taught them, and in turn teaches us, and through us to others, and so on. - NC His Pleasure In these days in which we live, there is great need that we be more quiet before the Lord. Just to enter into, and abide in such intimate fellowship with Him that we may at all times feast on that fruit of the Spirit which is Love, Joy, Peace, etc. (Gal 5:22, 23). These verses are just a picture of what our Lord Jesus Christ is, and what He wants to be to every one of His dear ones. This is very precious to the heart that has tasted that the Lord is good. Oh, that we might enter more into the mind of our Father about the One whose infinite loveliness is His daily delight, Who always pleases Him, Who rejoices always before Him (Mat 17:5; Pro 8:30). But when we are rejoicing in His love, do we ever stop to think of His happiness? We sing, “That will be glory for me.” How much more blessed to sing, “That will be glory for Him.” Oh, that we might so forget self so as to be able to live before Him just to minister to His own loving heart, just to give Him joy (uninterrupted in eternity—NC). No one was ever happy who was seeking happiness. Only those who taste of real joy are those seeking to give joy to the heart of another. We come to Him many times to have our own needs met but do we ever come just to satisfy the longings of His own heart of love? He is seeking worshipers, those who will speak His real worth, His beauty, His glory. Has He found them in us? Have we been seeking to give Him the joy that was before Him when He endured the Cross, when He paid the awful price of our “redemption”? Will our only joy in the glory be that we are saved and made like Him? Will not the joy of knowing that He is satisfied, that He has been able to rejoice, far transcend all this? Ah, beloved, we are so prone to look at everything from our own standpoint, from the effect it will have on us instead of its relation to Him. We may have wept with Him over cold stony hearts. Have we ever rejoiced with Him because He found His sheep? How often we deny Him the time that His loving heart craves under the pretense of being too busy in His service. Dr. C.I. Scofield says, “I grow so weary of the constant spurring of God’s people to service, service, service; as if any father ever did care so much to have his children toiling for him as much as loving and trusting him.” Oh, that we might ask under every circumstance, “Will this bring joy to His loving heart?” We may be doing many things that are not actually evil, but do they contribute to His joy? How much we need to become better acquainted with Him; to have Paul’s heart-hunger: “That I may know Him.” To know Him better will lessen our desire to know anything else, for He is the fullness of the Father. In Him is comprehended all that the Father has for us from the moment we are saved to the countless ages of eternity. Yet a little while, and we shall be forever with Him. Will we regret that we spent not much time alone with Him while in this wilderness scene of death? My heart longs for that time when I shall never again grieve Him. How patient, how gentle He has been with every one of us. What must it mean to Him who gave everything to purchase us from eternal death and for Himself, to have us show no concern about His happiness and satisfaction, to have us occupied with everything but Himself! - Unknown

To believed that he died for the forgiveness of our sins, That's all.

The righteousness of Christ transforms the heart and mind. That is what it required to enter heaven, a new heart and mind. "Let this mind be in you which is in Jesus Christ"

that what I just said : I have peace with God because of Jesus Christ, he is my peace with the Father. He is my attonment, and my righteousness. As he is I am, new creature by faith. I am made in his Image, because I have believed, before I repented from Sins and I ask forgiveness. Retiuals?

Understood

Do you know any one who can boast that he is worthy to go to heaven because he has not sins.

Going to heaven with sins?

Hello brother Kan, I did not have deliverance of Sins in my mind. Actually with SINS, we are going to Heaven because we go with not our own righteousness, but with Jesus righteousness.

Death can take place in so many ways, it could be emotional, it can be relational, we know that an unbeliever’s sin leads to physical death, so the universal principle that sin leads to death is true. A believer can die functionally in that we can serve no further useful purpose here on earth, no heavenly purpose on earth to those to whom we become an ambassador. Death, in a physical sense, can come from making improper choices in our lives, if we continue in a sinful lifestyle, and we continue not bringing the flesh into subjection as Paul talks about, we can count on that lifestyle to take a toll on us.

The issue is not our sins today, most people think sin is the issue, so they are looking for ways to keep short accounts. The issue is: In order to dwell with God in eternity future; we have to be as righteous as God, his justice will not allow nothing other, and until you believe what happened to the sins Christ died for concerning yourself, you are not placed into Christ.

The righteousness of Christ delivers us from slavery to sin.

There is something left unclear, you are talking about our own righteousness, OBEDIENCE, Are you expecting to go to haven with your own obedience.

It is about time, that some one has the courage to revolt from the fear of sin, thank you. The wages of sin, any sin, ( which is not recomented), is not death when someone stands in the righteousness of Jesus Christ by faith.

There you go. I didn't give statistics to prove that point. You asked me to prove "thousands" of children being involved and I did. Actually over 4,300 preists, just in the United States ordained between 1950 and 2002 have accusations against them that have not been withdrawn and have not been proven to be not true. Of those over 4,300 priests 3.5%, let me state that again 3 and one half% of those priests account for 2,960 accusations. These are the priests with more than ten allegations against them. There is another 96.5% of priests allegations to be added to 2,960. Again only in the United States, not globally, this is just the United States. Again the movie is about the cover up and how high it goes in the organization. I've said my knee jerk making up of a title and quickness at posting was unfortunate, I don't start many threads and it's a lesson learned, but you have constantly not allowed any other topic written in the OP to advance and it isn't your OP. My statistics were given to answer your accusation that I was making it all up about the "thousands", your quotes. My statistics had nothing to do with proving or disproving what you have constantly harped on and have not let this thread expand or get to any other point. And again it is my OP not yours. You have made your point, thank you. You asked me to prove my "thousands" and I did. You have not only twisted those statistics in a previous post of yours but have misrepresented the thread postings in the above post and it is here in writing for anyone to read. It's like having a conversation with a politician. All you are about is to try and prove your assumptions that the only thing I came here to do was bash someone. The only one I can find bashing anything is you. Besides you keep posting over and over again the worlds statistics are the same as Catholics statistics. I think a good number of people have tried to prove that very point over the years and have been considered Catholic bashing. Get over yourself and move on.

I only reposted it angels because the faint grey print was unreadable to me. By reposting it, I got rid of the formatting so it was legible.

no, I didnt twist anything-I gave you the exact statistics-which lined up perfectly, with non catholics. If your "satement" was true, you would have seen a dramatic increase in pedofiles in the catholic church from those not in the secular church-you don't. Theres no twisting there, thats cold hard facts. You can't change them. Fact is, if this was truly about whether or not remaining celibant is a Biblical issue, you would have moved on from the catholic argument a long time ago, and instead, worried about what the Bible actually has to say on the matter. The fact that your so hung up on catholic priests being sexual predators (even though, as the statistics prove, that argument is blatantly false) just shows what your true motives are-its not whether or not its ok to remain celibant-but rather to attack the catholic church. Now, as you have pointed out, this topic is going nowhere, and we can sit here and point fingers all we want, facts don't change and im not wasting any more time with this thread. I think I will instead just report it for what it is, and go about my way.

The apostle said "Consider yourselves to be dead unto sin." Why is it that the true gospel which puts an end to the old life is the most neglected? People prefer to be able to struggle with some kind of spiritual achievement, (Paganism) rather than simply accept, fully accept, the righteousness of Christ on their behalf. Broad is the way to destruction, narrow the gate to salvation.

The statistics where asked for by you and were twisted by you and you have been nothing but a bully in this thread. I've explained myself and anyone can read the thread and see the truth.

Through the Holy Spirit, we are enlightened and given wisdom and understanding. I believe this, anyway. And faith is also an experience, it is in your everyday life, in how you interact with others...in how you commune with others...in how you view yourself...in how we read the Word. But, it isn't only limited to how we read the Word.

if you had wanted a subject on the topic, abstinance from marriage being biblical or not, you should have titled it that way and said so from the start. Starting a topic, about the catholics, using as your baseline twisted and untrue statistics about the catholics, is going to turn it into a catholic bash fest. What did you think was going to happen?

Well it is a shame the thread went the way it did. I have said it's unfortunate I titled it the way I did and did try to stick with the message in the first paragragh of the OP but it was ignored. The film that won the academy award for best picture is not about exposing sex abuse in the church but exposing the cover up and what I was convicted about and stirred up about, brought on by the memory of a teaching years ago, is the inability, like the church in Corinth, to see fit to judge righteously in situations such as this. The world seems to know what to do when they discover something like this in their organizations like a elementary public school but the church seems not to. I mentioned it bringing shame to the gospel in the first paragragh of the OP and attempted to speak about how Juda became worse than the world in some respects in a later post in this thread and frankly where I was headed was to bring a warning to evangelicalism. Because just as Juda became worse than her sister Samaria so to will the evangelical western church. We think we hold the understanding and so did Juda. The protestants, as we have learned from this thread, have more devorse than the world. Evangelicalism will be worse than Protestantism. Unless of coarse we buy eye salve and proper clothes to cover our nakedness. Honestly it would seem we have lost any credibility we may have had or seemed to have. Why would anyone want to hear anything we have to say about marriage? Why would anyone want to hear what we have to say about sexuality? Or child rearing or psychology or Islam? Well the world doesn't, they actually just want us to shut up, especially when it comes to islam. No matter what truth we may be saying we have no credibility with them. And it's one thing when it's because of righteousness but another when we bring it on ourselves. Judgement is not only coming to the house of Lord it is already here. I was convicted and troubled by the news Monday morning when I caught the headline on the web. That was the context of the thread and I came on to see what others were saying and found no one seems to even have it on the radar and then to have the thread go the way it went was, as I have said, unfortunate.

Yes, the beast that comes out of the sea in Rev 13 looks quite different from when he came up out of the sea in Daniel 7. The 10 horns are common between the two appearances but there is the addition of Satan's seven heads and attributes from the other beasts of Daniel 7 as you mention. I think the answer lies in this verse you quoted: And the dragon gave him [the beast] his power and his throne and great authority. Revelation 13:2b The seven heads of the dragon have crowns and represent Satan's throne and authority. This is how the beast from the sea acquired the seven heads that weren't present in Daniel 7. Satan essentially gives this evil angel beast temporary charge while he enters the false prophet to deceive the world and wage war against the saints. I think this notion is reinforced by the beast from the sea having the attributes of the other three beasts of Daniel 7. They've given their power to him as well, doing his bidding.

quick footnote/ check: I think certainly Moses didn't strike the rock due to familiarity with Yahweh. I think maybe in Scripture it is written why, maybe not, but why is not usually important. will clarify later Yahweh willing.

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. Romans 10:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Luke 12:32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.

The Holy Spirit in me cries out Daddy, or Da Da, (Abba, Abba). So I do feel very close to Him, warmed by Him, protected and nourished by Him. The fear comes when I have willingly disobeyed Him. Should I become proud and rebellious, I know from experience that I will be chastened. That is getting a whipping and being isolated for a time. Standing in the corner, it was called in my day. There is no comfort there, and there is a lot of pain. It is a good reminder of what is was before God came into my life. God runs over me with a bulldozer and flattens me when I do not willingly prostrate myself before Him in loving adoration. Hebrews 12:5-13 ESV. And have you forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons? "My son, do not regard lightly the discipline of the Lord, nor be weary when reproved by Him. For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." It is for discipline that you have to endure. God is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom his father does not discipline? 9 Besides this, we have had earthly fathers who disciplined us and we respected them. Shall we not much more be subject to the Father of spirits and live? For they disciplined us for a short time as it seemed best to them, BUT HE DISCIPLINES US FOR OUR GOOD, THAT WE MAY SHARE IN HIS HOLINESS. FOR THE MOMENT ALL DISCIPLINE SEEMS PAINFUL RATHER THAN PLEASANT, BUT LATER IT YIELDS THE PEACEFUL FRUIT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS TO THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN TRAINED BY IT. Therefor lift you drooping hands and strengthen your weak knees, and make straight paths for you feet, so that what is lame may not be put out of joint but rather be healed. (That means we should plan ahead so that we will not be tempted again and stumble.) I do fear the discipline of God. Psm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; all those who practice it have a good understanding. His praise endures forever! Fear often brings the obedience when I am unwilling. Never do I want to be out of fellowship with my Father again. That I fear more than the discipline. Blessings, Willa

Sending prayers...

Interesting~! Bless the LORD, O my soul: and all that is within me, bless his holy name. Psalms 103:1 What Was Jackson's Public Testimony About His Undying Love For Jesus? Love, Your Brother Joe

I think the new age movement is much larger than most of us realize. It has permeated and pretty much taken over most of the UN.

Why does it have to be a choice between the two? God gave us the natural facts and a brain for a reason. To ignore the natural facts is to ignore the creation of God.

There may be some error floating around Christian circles in this area. There are "name it and claim it" people who say that in spite of the pain, people should claim that they are healed. So once I did this because they told me my healing is done in heaven so I should confess it as though it were already done. So I did this in spite of considerable neck pain which prevented me from moving my head. As I walked home God started talking to my heart, telling me I had lied. He told me that like a witness in a court, I could only testify to things I had seen, heard, felt, smelled etc. So I repented of my sin as I walked. Within a few hours the pain and stiffness had left me. A doctor cannot investigate symptoms unless he is informed of them. If we go to the doctor and claim we are fine and nothing hurts but we have a broken bone and are experiencing muscle contractions and we hide the swelling, the bone won't be set and won't repair itself properly. I can't imagine the Good Physician healing us if we lie to Him either. Since one of the Hebrew names of God is the God Who heals, we should always acknowledge Him as the ultimate healer. It is God Who created our bodies in a such a way that they can repair themeselves to a large extent most of the time. But help from man is sometimes necessary so that they heal correctly. Sometime God does miracles and repairs things that may take several surgeries, and even does it better. But this is not always the case. Our God is full of grace and tender mercies.

Amen Beloved, The Nature But ask now the beasts, and they shall teach thee; and the fowls of the air, and they shall tell thee: Or speak to the earth, and it shall teach thee: and the fishes of the sea shall declare unto thee. Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this? In whose hand is the soul of every living thing, and the breath of all mankind. Job 12:7-19 Of The Truth Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. John 14:12 Is Jesus Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Romans 8:34 Love, Your Brother Joe

Even though they believed Jesus, their pride of being Jews came out when Jesus told them they could be free.... what Jesus was telling them was a huge put down and they didn't like it.