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A church in someone's home. Christianity was founded and based on small groups of people gathering together in someone's home to hear the Word and worship Jesus Christ. The Roman Catholic Church was founded by the Romans in order to corral the faithful into one place so that they could lord over them, take their money and tell them how to be "good Christians." It is in no way, shape or form a model of the Church that Jesus Christ founded.

Nobody has claimed it was just a feeling, but that it was more than just an action

Correct.

A question for the "love is only an action" people. If love is only an action and nothing more, how is it possible to do an action without an action? 13 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. 2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith,so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned,[a] but have not love, I gain nothing. An action is not something you have, it is something you do. How can anyone have an action? Please explain this to me.

David Wilkerson was the pastor of the time square church in New York city. He died a few years ago. About 1992 i think. He had a vision and a dream were he saw the USA have a economic crisis and then after that Russia shoots nukes and destroys all of the United States. Well now in the news Russia is threatening the USA with nuclear attack. I have a lot of respect for this Pastor. God used him to lead many to christ. And they even made a movie of him title the cross and the switchblade. I think time is very short to do God's work. We better be like the wise virgins. Are some of us asleep?

Batarang has been removed from the thread for the "lie" post. God bless, Steve

Love is an intent to place the object of that love into a special place where only the best results are desired for that target. It's a way of seeing, sensing and believing that deifies all logic from anyone other than the person expressing that love. It's not an action, which is a verb. It is a state of being that shows ownership of mental imagery the wielder associates with the target. I don't see any reason that we as human beings should not investigate this love as deeply as possible. It's a far better endeavor than doing so with any other emotional trait because of the rewards it possesses. I see no reason to stop at other peoples definitions of the Bible at this, because of the fact that we all need to understand how we are to incorporate the Bible and it's teachings in our everyday life.

Love is an intent to place the object of that love into a special place where only the best results are desired for that target. It's a way of seeing, sensing and believing that deifies all logic from anyone other than the person expressing that love. It's not an action, which is a verb. It is a state of being that shows ownership of mental imagery the wielder associates with the target. I don't see any reason that we as human beings should not investigate this love as deeply as possible. It's a far better endeavor than doing so with any other emotional trait because of the rewards it possesses. I see no reason to stop at the Bible at this, because of the fact that we all need to understand how we are to incorporate the Bible and it's teachings in our everyday life.

I will just say this. The poster has a point, but as to his facts i have no clue who those are. Job was a righteous man, upright and walked right before the lord. Well we know what took place. Who brought misery to his life, yes satan, even though we know how it came about. There are very wicked schemes that take place that we don't know why the good Lord allows. Now one event that took place that can never be erased from my mind was the 911 event. Too many variable and questions are left unanswered. Two towers were hit, and fell, yet one building named 7 fell the exact same manner. There are 1000 professional engineers, guys who design and build those type of buildings, are questioning how the events and especially that building 7 fell. I hope i am not moving away from the topic, but shedding some light of what seems like a mystery. Here is a link of an interview with the chief of the 1000 engineers who are seeking answers. Also see youtube for how building 7 fell just like a controlled demolition. I really would want to shed a bit of my own real life encounters, but have learnt that every man will have his own trial and tribulations to face and thus his own personal testimony that will be his and his alone. 1 Peter 5:8King James Version (KJV) 8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Wonder, how many really believe the above verse .? p.s i know i am not supposed to post the link here, but not sure how to just get the video out and leave the text words alone. help. If you want to watch this video, please cut and paste the following on the youtube search box. Richard Gage and Niels Harrit examining the Truth of 9/11 HERE IS ANOTHER ONE. Richard Gage 2016 Latest Blockbuster Intel Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth One more Architects and Engineers On 9/11! Excellent Must See! Listen what this man has to say. He is a professional representing 2500 of those in the profession of Architects and Engineers. <<<Removed Video From Post>>> Please post all videos in the appropriate Video Forum so they can be approved. You can then link to the thread if necessary. God bless, Steve_S

I Cor 13 tells us that love is something that we have. We do not have action, we do actions. We do not have decisions, we make decisions. Feelings/emotions are the thing that we have.

Other things such as the weather, news reports, phases of the moon, etc. Indeed, feelings are fickle, and to rely on feelings is to delude oneself. Thus we have "Monday morning blues" as well as TGIF. You summed it up nicely.

I believe love is a decision to commit that results in an action of unselfishness or giving, and that in turn may result in an emotion. Feelings are fickle. They bend with hormones, illness or pain, and a host of other things. Human love expects to be loved in return. Without a constant supply of God's Word to encourage us even God's love in us will dry up. God's love is unending. God's love is constant. His commitment to us is sure. We need His love to continue to fuel us or we are unable to give out to others. He is the Vine and we are the branches. Corrie tenBoom said "Not good if detached." Joh 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. Joh 15:5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. We may feel pity for someone that is drowning and succeed in pulling them to shore only to have them scream at us that we should have let them die. God's love keeps on loving. Human love dries up or is with held when rejected. We choose to love with God's love till death do we part. That kind of committed love never ends. It responds with power and kindness when rejected. It casts out fear and is ready to comfort when the temper tantrum is over. Eventually it may melt cold hearts when people know they are loved just the way they are.

You are not the first one to say that I have heard people call them the freeloaders of society

Nor do I. psychology and I have never been on a first name basis.

I think that we need to look to Scripture for the true meaning of love. I think that love can be an emotion, feeling and action. I don't know where psychology comes in all of this

I could personally get behind the idea that Love is not just a feeling. It can be a feeling and it most often shows itself in our choices. http://www.pursuegod.org/love-is-a-choice-not-just-a-feeling/

Shiloh I would tend to disagree: However, we must be clear on what love actually is or else we will find ourselves lost in the pursuit of it and lose our resolve. Love Is Not Only a Verb John Mayer’s catchy song captures the way many people end up defining love in total: “Love Is a Verb.” The problem is that’s not the whole truth. Love is not only a verb. Now, I know what Mayer’s getting at. He means that lip-only love isn’t love. Love is displayed in action. That is true. The apostle John agrees when he says, “Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth” (1 John 3:18). But it’s still a massive and potentially dangerous oversimplification. If we reduce love to mere action, we will miss love at its source. Making love only a verb will likely make us Pharisees. Because just like you can talk loving without really loving, you can act loving without really loving. That’s what Paul meant when he said, “If I give away all I have and deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing” (1 Corinthians 13:3). We can look like we’re fulfilling 1 John 3:18 and still not love. To understand love correctly, we must see that love originates as a noun that necessarily produces verbs. Love So Amazing, So Divine Let’s turn to the “Apostle of Love” for help with this: “God is love.” (1 John 4:8) “God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” (John 3:16) “By this we know love, that he laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers.” (1 John 3:16) “God is love”: By saying this, John is pointing us to the origin of love. In the previous verse, he writes, “love is from God” (1 John 4:7). True love is a part of and comes from the most beautiful, most valuable, most satisfying Treasure that exists: God. “God so loved the world, that”: It is true that love is a verb. In English, we use forms of the word “love” as nouns, verbs, adverbs, and adjectives. But that doesn't change the fact that love in its divine origin is an action-producing noun. Even used as a verb in this verse, we end up understanding love as a noun. The word “that” makes all the difference. It tells us that God’s love for his Trinitarian glory, and for the Bride he determined to purchase for his Son, was the motive that moved him to the action of giving his Son. “By this we know love”: True love is revealed in Jesus’s death on the cross. He laid his life down for us “for the joy that was set before him” (Hebrews 12:2) in glorifying his Father (John 17:1), receiving glory from his Father (John 17:5), and the full eternal joy of his redeemed Bride (John 15:11). That’s what love looks like. The most helpful single sentence definition of love I have found is from chapter four of John Piper’s Desiring God: “Love is the overflow of joy in God that gladly meets the needs of others” (119). Love is not merely the action of meeting others’ needs; it includes the motive of the action. True love cherishes God supremely as the supreme Treasure and therefore wants others to also cherish the supreme Treasure and be eternally happy. God is love, and love is from God. Therefore, loving others is doing whatever it takes for them to have as much of God as they can. Demands My Soul, My Life, My All This has huge implications. It means that true love can’t flourish apart from God. Anything that looks like love that we do for others — being patient, kind, not boastful or irritable or resentful, giving away our possessions, even martyrdom (1 Corinthians 13:4-5, 3) — that isn’t done for God’s glory and with a desire that others may taste and see that God is good (Psalm 34:8) is not true, vibrant love. Godless love is a hollow shell, a love that has lost its soul, a flower cut from its root. Godless love is sin (Romans 14:23). It makes you catch your breath, doesn’t it? How often is your “love” sin? O how wonderful is the precious gospel! Jesus fulfilled the greatest commandments for us sinful lovers! There is therefore now no condemnation for us if we are in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). But, if you’re like me and see the frequent hollow sinfulness of your love in light of biblical love, you’ll realize that this whole “pursuing love” thing is a much deeper issue than we first thought. And the remedy is far more than us trying to do more verbs — to produce more actions. We need a deeper transformation, a profound reordering of our souls’ affections. And this only happens by looking at the glory of the great Noun until we delight in him more than anything else. So that’s where pursuing love begins: look at the Noun — gaze at God in his love. Dive into the greatest commandment before getting consumed in the second. In the long run, because of the actions it will produce, this is the most loving thing we can do this year. For example OoTS shared this above article. Not that anyone actually took the time to read it. God bless, GE

Love is Not a Feeling Sacrificial love has transforming power. Genuine love is volitional rather than emotional. The person who truly loves does so because of a decision to love. This person has made a commitment to be loving whether or not the loving feeling is present. It is, so much the better; but if it isn’t, the commitment to love, the will to love, still stands and is still exercised. Conversely, it is not only possible but necessary for a loving person to avoid acting on feelings of love. I may meet a woman who strongly attracts me, whom I feel like loving, but because it would be destructive to my marriage to have an affair, I will say vocally or in the silence of my heart, “I feel like loving you, but I am not going to.” My feelings of love may be unbounded, but my capacity to be loving is limited. I therefore must choose the person on whom to focus my capacity to love, toward whom to direct my will to love. True love is not a feeling by which we are overwhelmed. It is a committed, thoughtful decision. Dr. M. Scott Peck. That was in bible.org...I think we err when we forget that there are 3 types of love, agape,phileo and the eros. The 3rd one I think is a feeling but not the other 2.

Apparently so. Didn't you know there can't be multiple interpretations of the Bible on any given subject? Lol God bless, GE

What should be brought out is that AGAPE is love in action. Here is what it means as pronounced by Christ (Luke 4:18,19): The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. That does not necessarily mean that feelings are not involved. But the important point to note is that Christian decisions are not to be based on "feelings" but on Bible Truth.

In reviewing the thread it seems @Out of the Shadows, @RustyAngeL, @kwikphilly, @Teditis, and myself believe love is both action and a feeling. It seems @Davida, @Ezra, @Yowm, @angels4u and @shiloh357 believe that love is only an action. I have no idea where @gdemoss, @batarang, @Willa, @Dok, @Churchmouse, @enoob57, or @missmuffet stand on the topic. Is this correct? It's also clear that some people don't believe that psychology should have any bearing in the conversation about feelings. While others believe psychology can be a useful tool. I'll state it again, a person who is wise will use the Bible, the Holy Spirit's guidance (prayer), logic and feelings to make decisions. God bless, GE

Nonsense. That assumes that only people who are married with children have experienced love, that love only exists in that context. If we were talking about the particulars of marriage, then yes, there are things about the nuts and bolts of marriage that I am not able to speak to. But that is not what this is about. In Scripture, whether your theology makes room for it or not, love is presented as an action, not an emotion. In the Bible, love is operative in nature and James demonstrates that in James two when he uses the operative nature of love to illustrate the operative nature of faith. Faith and love work the same way. Neither are rooted in feeling or emotion. Neither are circumstantial in that neither depend on circumstances to be right in order for them to operate. Both love and faith find their source in God, not in human emotion. Romantic "love" is really just infatuation/affection. That's not bad or evil, but that's not love, despite what the popular culture tells us. Shiloh, Do you often start out responses to people by completely discounting their position? Something to pray about for sure. I have simply shared my experience in understanding love better through the eyes of the role of a husband and the role of a father. Multiple people have disagreed with your assertion that love is not a feeling. Again, I do not think that word "nonsense" means what you think it means... Or how you are using it. Nonsense: 1. spoken or written words that have no meaning or make no sense. 2. foolish or unacceptable behavior. 3 Questions then: 1. How did what I say not make sense or have no meaning? 2. How is what I said foolish or unacceptable behavior? 3. Do you disagree that there is a difference between experiencing intellectually something by reading it in a book and by experiencing the event itself? I found your whole tone very distasteful. Then again that's not surprising that seems to be the case often these days. Perhaps like @Out of the Shadows I'll simply have to agree to disagree with you on this subject. God bless, GE

Thank you both!

Dear sister Gerbilgirl, Grace and mercy and peace from our Lord Jesus Christ. Hoping to help you, the sister Kwik and other readers to clarify this doubt, I wrote this post. When the Eternal created the man, He makes him in His image, after His likeness (Genesis 1.26). Unfortunately, the man rejected this, preferring to live his life and to be judge of all. Henceforth, the world passed to lie in wickedness (1John 5.19), governed by Ha-Satan (John 12.31; 14.30; 16.11; Ephesians 2.1,2). While we are in this world, we’ll be like lambs in the midst of wolves (Matthew 10.16). Unfortunately, many impostors arise that self-proclaimed themselves representatives of the Eternal. The good news (gospel) is that Jesus provide a way (John 14.6) in order to lead us to save of the contamination that hover in the air (Ephesians 2.1,2) until we arrive at our true home. For this, we have that to leave this world for good. We haven’t as change the circumstances that come to us, but we can leave Jesus shows us how to react to them. You can be thinking: why does the Eternal allow this mess and put us in the middle of it? All of us are created incompletes, with gaps which the Eternal planned to plug with His glory (see Romans 9.22,23) acting in each relationship that He brings to us. The only form of each breach to be plugged is going through each situation that the Eternal permits praying, rejoicing and giving thanks (1Thessalonians 5.16-18). Hence the Eternal promises that wouldn’t lack any circumstance in our life (whether pleasant or not - Psalms 23.1; Philippians 4.11-13). Without this, the glorious fruit of the Spirit of Jesus couldn’t be seen in all earth through us (see Isaiah 9.11; Habakkuk 2.14; John 15.8). In other words, our life wouldn’t have utility, would be vain, senselessness. The good news is that you don’t need to be more cheated. It’s enough you leave the Spirit of Jesus to teach you (1John 2.27) and never more you will be confounded neither shamed (Romans 10.11), but you will get to be like a cork in a sea: the greater the wave, the higher you’ll rise. Instead of going under, each proof that you overcome will make you more close of the Christ. Finally, I urge you to hear the CD “How to be happy anyhow”, which can be found in this link: · http://www.nubeat.org/ABHMhtbha.html or · http://apertenaosacuda.blogspot.com.br/search?q=how+to+b+e Let Jesus make you to hear His sweet voice calling you. And when this happens, don’t withstand (Hebrews 3.7,15; 4.7): give herself to Him completely and totally (Revelation 3.20). Go with Him wherever He guides you and allow Him to love you.

does this include mouth to mouth resuscitation? One of the places The Witness of The Holy Spirit within us secures our hearts to Himself is the outside of time a thing is accomplished where at the time is not seen... the depth and mystery is seen in objective realties through life experiences (personal) and forever kept in The Glory of God... Romans 8:28 (KJV) [28] And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. thanks for the witness Willa! Love, Steven

For some od reason this won't let me quote the last response. You said I never said that it was not having a wife. I said she might help if and when this happens. That is a misrepresentation of what I've stated. He might have just been an angel, but he began all of this and is called the deceiver for a reason. If you think he can't effect the material world then how do you explain demonic possession. He can, most assuredly effect the natural world and the story of Job will verify that. Do you really think that guarding our hearts is exclusive to Christian's? It has to do with wisdom. We just acknowledge where this wisdom actually comes from.

I wish you would take all that I've said here to heart and not just the latest response. (1) You misrepresent what I stated here. (2) Yes he dose most assuredly have a lot to do with the distractions of this world, which I stated overwhelm us sometimes, leading us to act out in fear and anger. I have stated this as the insanity, earlier. (3) Guarding our hearts means being diligent and mindful of the pitfalls that jump in front of us.

I agree, but how many times is it that in the moment when we forget God, we also forget The Bible. The insanity of fear and pain it ever present. It is what Satan has used for ever to distract us and then play us with guilt and remorse for that which we do when we are subject to this insanity? As I said, we are emotional people and sometimes those emotions override everything when the world around us is short circuiting. It might be for only a short time, but how much destruction can one's mouth pour into our world, in that short time is sometimes irretrievable from those who have heard those words? The Bible says to guard our hearts and a helper might just reduce that time period of insanity to a look in our eyes when they smile back at us and give us a hug.

I never said complete or fulfill. I said share and there are times in this world where so much is happening that we forget God is here and when that happens, he might just use this mate as a tool to remind us who is still on the throne and it was he who set your path to meet this mate for this very reason.

We all live in an emotional world. We are emotional people and God knows this. He created Eve for the very purposes I am speaking about. She is his helper as he is hers. GEN 2:20-24 The Lord God will always love us, but I'm talking about is more a terrestrial need. With God there is purpose, but there is always the need to share that purpose with someone to share that purpose.

Yep

Well yowm, that pretty much puts an end to the question about whether Wilkerson's prophecies can be trusted or not!

You can go to "the Elijah list" and see that most of the so-called prophecies are observations based upon examining world events. And some are not even that but simply ramblings. Here is an example which does not correspond to anything in Scripture: "God will bring the governmental office of the prophet from the Church and the governmental offices from the world together – to finance and advance the Kingdom agenda for whole nations. It's time to see those sheep nations emerge!"

Indeed, it says that, but it does not say they will be given dreams/prophecies that are not in the Bible. Key difference there. Goes along with "test all things" part of your comment.

The bible also says despise not prohecys .But test all things. It says in the last days men will have visions and dreams. So dont think God cannot or will not fill someone with his spirit and give them a vision to wake others up to in pending trouble.

Many do, and that would be an example of a biblical prophecy. While I'm not sure I agree with that interpretation of that prophecy, I'm more apt to believe it then a supposed vision, because one is in the Bible-the other is not.

Bible says Babylon will be destroyed in an hour by fire ~~ sure sounds like nukes- and many feel USA is one of the two Babylons I don't hold much for modern day prophets-- his prophecy could easily have just been the result of looking at current events and making a good guess.

I'm not saying he was or was not a man of God-i don't know his ministry well enough to say either way. But, no ones perfect. And, quite frankly like I said, the Bible has the prophecy needed-i automatically doubt any prophecies outside of the Bible, because well, they're not needed, and while this man maybe a man of God-i still doubt his vision. With that said yes, we need to bring God back to America. And yes we will face judgement, but I don't need Wilkerson to know that-the Bible tells us that.

Hi Brother. I do agree with you that most prophecies from outside the bible are not reliable. But David was a diffrent man of God. God really used him in many ways. I am not saying he is right but he could of had a real vision. But in ant case i think America needs to turn from sin. Will not God judge het?

4 decades ago? Yeah, that was still cold war era...very much so. And economic downturn? Yeah, still a pretty good guess. Even without looking at the economy, history says every countries economy goes up and down, so to predict ours would go down still wasn't something that needed divine influence.

I usually take most prophecies with a grain of salt, but I think Mr. Wilkerson had prophesied these things nearly 4 decades ago, when there were no deep signs of these things happening. When I listen to the prophecy, which you can listen to it on youtube, most of all he says fits to a T of what's going on years later. That being said, I'm not saying all of it will be fulfilled, but it's pretty spot on thus far.

I don't put much faith in these prophecies. All the prophecies we need are in the Bible. End of story. I'm not saying wilkerson was intentionally lying, he may have been a strong christian, but no ones perfect, and quite frankly, I don't see this as any kind of prophecy. Not divine, anyway. Anyone with a half iota of intelligence could look at our nation's spending at that time, and know that if something wasn't done, Wed be in an economic crisis in the near future. Doesn't take divine Providence to figure that one out. As far as the nuke thing, good portion of his life was in the cold war era. A lot of people were afraid of-and predicting Wed get nuked by Russia. In this case I doubt it was a vision, but rather a fear inspired dream. Guy may have meant well, but I would say prophet, he is not.

The seven year tribulation? Unfortunately many will be left behind.

Why not? Our home isnt here.

Good question.

I don't know . But he tells us to be ready. He said the son of man comes when you don't expect it. If the USA is destroyed by bombs. God could warn us before and we might need to leave this country. Jesus said pray and watch that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things.

that is good for me to hear about David, for this morning from church God has impressed on me that He has many servants. All with an annointing that's entirely valid and used by the Holy Spirit. so i listen to your post and can see it happening in the news. but would God destroy all of US when many are responsible christians?

foundational understanding of original sin is what your lacking here! When our greatest grandfather Adam sinned The Spirit of God left His makeup and we died in connectivity to God and were left to deadness of sin in and of ourselves.... God also cursed the creation itself due to His Holiness and desire of all men to repent of this decision made by Adam... You were born into a world where satan rules and we ourselves belong to him and his lies are our truth reasoning... in this we experience the ugliness of perversion soaked in sin which is rebellion to God and Holiness... But God's Own Self that of Love, Holiness, Pleasure has set forth an escape route from the perversion and lies in His Son Jesus The Christ... Romans 6:16 (KJV) [16] Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? [17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. [18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness. [19] I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. [20] For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. This redemption is called being born not of flesh, which was the man who fiddled with you, but born from above and that practice is an abomination to those born from above and they simply will not do it! Love, Steven

Thank you everyone!

JFK spoke about the shadow govt, Hes dead. It must be nice to live in a reality where you do not see the obvious. Its everywhere, except apparently in your reality. But thats your right to not look that way. Im I'm sure Hillary picked her VP cause he has a great political track record, and not because the Jesuits told her to pick him. 13, 23, 33 You must have the proper eyes to see. Which is the exact reason Jesus spoke in parables. Many people would still be in wonder if we did not have the explanation of the parables. But the parables would just be a conspiracy theory then wouldnt they? God bless.