Sabbath or Sunday ?

[alex73]

I picked up on the references to or about measures of obedence. This is why I've dropped this in here.

Hope you don't mind.

''Obedience is better than sacrifice'' I've heard said, whether self promoted or externally imposed.

But you say ''God was so obedient that He chose to sacrifice His obedient son.''

How come we should be obedient.

2 Kings 23:25

The Message (MSG)

There was no king to compare with Josiah

[JCISGD]

Hi Shiloh, Ooops your right it was Paul, who said "Let no man judge". But come on thats stretching it. Do you think a Christian or Jew would care if a Gnostic was opposing them?. Sorry but your the one butchering i think. It is clear enough teaching and enforced by Galations 3:1-5 and 5:1-4.

The Gnostics were a cult that crept into the Christian Church and taught that Jesus did not come in the flesh, as the Gnostics believed that everything pertaining to the physical world was sinful by virtue of being physical, meaning that the physical body was evil as well. In addition, since festivals and holy days sanctify matter, time and space in this world, they are in Gnostic thinking evil. This would include Sabbaths, new moons and such. It wouldn't if they were Jewish or not. If they pertained to this world, that alone made them sinful. It is also the Gnostics that introduced ascetism and self abuse such as beating your self, starvation and sleep deprivation as a way of punishing one's self for having a sinful body.

As for Galatians... If you bother to read the letter as it is intended to be understood, it is not "anti-law." The heresy Paul was addressing was that of a sect of Judaizers who were telling the Galatian congregation that they had to convert to the Jewish religion and become physical members of Israel in order to be saved. Hence the controversy over circumcision. The Galatians were led astray and were thinking that they had to become Jews in addition to faith in Christ in order to enter the Kingdom of God. It was this heresy that led to decision that was made in Acts 15. Paul was not criticizing because they were keeping the Sabbath or what not. It was that these things were being done within the context of adding to the gospel thus providing the wrong conext and motive for such observances.

Sorry again if it blows your theology, but the spirit of the law (intention) is that every seventh day be kept,

No, the "spirit" of the law where the Sabbath is concerned is what it teaches us about Christ and the fact that it points to only one way of salvation. For that reason, picking any old day to be the Sabbath is like saying you can get saved any way you want. The Sabbath teaches that there is ONE way salvation. Your view warps that picture. It when you are born again, that you honor the Spirit of the Sabbath.

you missed my point i think, that those in a different time zone are according to you beaking the sabbath.

I did not miss your point. I dismissed it as ridiculous. God knew all about time zones. The Jewish people know all about time zones and there has never been a problem with Jews celebrating the Sabbath in New York several hours after the Jews in Israel or Europe. It is observed when it comes to your zone. So, you are raising a nonissue.

You are right God does not arbituraly make laws, they are law because they are good, hence the saying " the sabbath was made for man and not man for the sabbath". It is not a slavish law but a principle of rest to be adhered to for our good.

I did not say God arbitrarily made laws. I said that it is not up to man to arbitrarily decide which day is the Sabbath. When Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man, He was countering the misapplication of extrabiblical restrictions placed on the people by the Rabbis of the time. In no way was He setting anything aside or teaching that the Sabbath is whatever you want it to be.

The sabbath day was not instituted untill Moses, so if God was as insistant about the exact day He would have said before then.

When God gave the double portion of manna on the sixth day, and no manna on the seventh day, He showed the children of Israel which day it was. For fourty years, there was no manna on the Seventh day, and Jews have been observing it ever since. Jesus never told them they were observing the Sabbath on the wrong day.

The Christians continued to meet on the sabbath to outreach to the Jews and they met on the First day of the week for more intimate fellowship and freedom of worship

That is a motive YOU are assigning to them. The Bible does not claim that they kept the Sabbath for "outreach." These first Chrstians were Jews. The coming of Jesus was not the start of a new religion but the fulfillment of the Torah and the prophets read every Sabbath in the synagogue. For them it was the fulfillment of their already existant Jewish faith. They were still Torah observant Jews and the Bible bears that out.

Mate if you want to try to be holy before God by keeping certain laws your welcome, but i know my redeemer lives and why He came to set us free.

I don't keep the Sabbath, nor am I Torah observant beyond the ethical commandments. I simply defend those who do keep such observances from people like you who try to assign false values to them, like you just did to me. Just because someone is keeping the Sabbath or the dietary commandments or whatever does not mean they are trying be saved by means of those observances. That is value you have no right to assign to others. That is something you had better get straight in your head, "mate."

Please accept my apologies Shiloh as upon re-reading my words i was mocking and jumping to conclusions, not to mention not well researched.

When im better motivated i may try to re-present my veiws without such flaws.

In Christ, Arthur.

[BlindSeeker]

Please accept my apologies Shiloh as upon re-reading my words i was mocking and jumping to conclusions, not to mention not well researched.

When im better motivated i may try to re-present my veiws without such flaws.

In Christ, Arthur.

Very refreshing witness of spirit.

[BlessedHope]

On which day did the Lord Jesus Christ rise from the dead?

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (Matthew 28:1)

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Mark 16:9)

Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. (Luke 24:1-3)

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. (John 20:1-2)

The first day of the week is Sunday. Christians worship on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of their Savior. Christ was in the tomb during the sabbath, and rose as the firstborn from the dead on the first day. (Matthew 28:1) The sabbath signifies the last day of the old creation (Genesis 2:2). Sunday is the first day of the new creation.

Sabbath means "rest"...Our "rest" is in the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, when we are "in Christ", we have "entered into His rest":

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. (Hebrews 4:1-4)

The Lord Jesus Christ is my rest/Sabbath.

Edited April 21, 2009 by BlessedHope

[Floatingaxe]

On which day did the Lord Jesus Christ rise from the dead?

In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. (Matthew 28:1)

Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. (Mark 16:9)

Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus. (Luke 24:1-3)

The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre. Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him. (John 20:1-2)

The first day of the week is Sunday. Christians worship on Sunday in honor of the resurrection of their Savior. Christ was in the tomb during the sabbath, and rose as the firstborn from the dead on the first day. (Matthew 28:1) The sabbath signifies the last day of the old creation (Genesis 2:2). Sunday is the first day of the new creation.

Sabbath means "rest"...Our "rest" is in the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, when we are "in Christ", we have "entered into His rest":

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. (Hebrews 4:1-4)

The Lord Jesus Christ is my rest/Sabbath.

Amen!

[kross]

Here in America, we tend to start our work week on Monday, making Sunday the seventh day. That's good enough for me.

[Guest shiloh357]

Here in America, we tend to start our work week on Monday, making Sunday the seventh day. That's good enough for me.

Actually, in here in America, Sunday is the 1st day of the week. We do not count our week from Monday, but from Sunday.

[Smalcald]

Why does this topic always bring so much controversy?

[JCISGD]

Why does this topic always bring so much controversy?

Because there are those of the circumsion who would want us to go back to saturday worship and then many other non esentials.

But also there are those like me that still got a little of the "sons of thunder" in me, and contend for the faith against them. I do not mean against my real Brothers/Sisters but those who are still trying to be saved by keeping the law.

By this i do not mean violating the Ten Commandments, even after salvation it will never be right to kill, steal, commit adultery, or violate the laws of health by not resting one day in seven, but that i will not be saved by keeping them.

Anyone who brings in new leadership is also allowed to change a few things and make a fresh start, and God did this by giving the Christians a new day to rest and worship on.

[BlindSeeker]

Why does this topic always bring so much controversy?

Because there are those of the circumsion who would want us to go back to saturday worship and then many other non esentials.

But also there are those like me that still got a little of the "sons of thunder" in me, and contend for the faith against them. I do not mean against my real Brothers/Sisters but those who are still trying to be saved by keeping the law.

By this i do not mean violating the Ten Commandments, even after salvation it will never be right to kill, steal, commit adultery, or violate the laws of health by not resting one day in seven, but that i will not be saved by keeping them.

Anyone who brings in new leadership is also allowed to change a few things and make a fresh start, and God did this by giving the Christians a new day to rest and worship on.

Well, I am a Sabbatarian and I do not teach the need for circumcision nor the salvation by keeping the law either dear "son of thunder."

I just fail to find any scriptural justification for the abandonment of God's 4th commandment . . . which out of the 10 is the only ordinance written by the finger of God.

Isa 24:5 The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws,

changed the ordinance

, broken the everlasting covenant.