Lucifer?

[other one]

I suppose that you guys think that the prince of Tyre and the King of Tyre are just men also...

[Hunterpoet]

I suppose that you guys think that the prince of Tyre and the King of Tyre are just men also...

I believe that many of the people and the events they were involved in were shadows of things to come.

Also the name lucifer only appears in Isaiah 14:12 and no where else; and in some translations it does not appear at all. Why would satan be given this name here and no where else where he is mentioned as satan, or serpent...etc.....

[Matthitjah]

Grace to you,

It's pretty commonly known that Lucifer was satan's pre-fall name.

Let's look to the Word to back this up though.

Satan's previous job was, "The Covering Cherub," which makes him all the more ominous because he wasn't just any ordinary Angel.

Eze 28:16

By the multitude of your trade they have filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:14

You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

This passage speaks of Lucifer and how he was perfectly created until iniquity was found in him. He was quite dazzling. Yet he was full of pride.

Jude describes the Angels former estates;

Jude 1:6

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.s

Their estate was their role and why they were created. What made Lucifer so dazzling and beautiful wasn't his own countenance. It was the Throne that his estate caused him to cover. He went from gazing in amazement and wonder at the Lord of Glory to looking upon himself. Then when he lost focus he left his estate full of pride and forgot why he was dazzling to behold and why he was so gifted. It wasn't him, it was the One who made Him. Like most men do these days he sawed off the branch upon which he was standing and the pride of his own life took control of his destiny. He sinned and believed that because he was clothed in borrowed glory that he was as Truly Glorious as the One who created him.

That's when his name changed from Daystar, which merely represented what he covered, to satan (adversary and accuser).

His name was a reflection of the Glory of God which it was a blessing to be a part of to that of an inglorious enemy and adversary. Sadly, he has no kinsmen redeemer. His end is known.

I just read this passage this morning;

Ps 9:6

O you enemy, destructions are come to an everlasting end: and you have destroyed cities; their memory is perished with them.

Here's another translation;

Ps 9:6

The enemy is overtaken by endless ruin. The very memory of the cities which you have overthrown has perished.

The enemy of our souls is headed for endless ruin, endless destruction.

There is reference to names being changed all through scripture. It has to do with new charecter. Abram to Abraham. Jacob to Israel. Why not Lucifer to satan?

Wouldn't it work backwards as well? This created beings nature changed from reflecting the Lord's Glory to opposing it.

Peace,

Dave

[Song In The Night]

^ Very nicely explained.

Even I understood.

Thank you.

[Hunterpoet]

Grace to you,

It's pretty commonly known that Lucifer was satan's pre-fall name.

Let's look to the Word to back this up though.

Satan's previous job was, "The Covering Cherub," which makes him all the more ominous because he wasn't just any ordinary Angel.

Eze 28:16

By the multitude of your trade they have filled the midst of you with violence, and you have sinned: therefore I will cast you as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy you, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:14

You are the anointed cherub that covers; and I have set you so: you were upon the holy mountain of God; you have walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

This passage speaks of Lucifer and how he was perfectly created until iniquity was found in him. He was quite dazzling. Yet he was full of pride.

Jude describes the Angels former estates;

Jude 1:6

And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.s

Their estate was their role and why they were created. What made Lucifer so dazzling and beautiful wasn't his own countenance. It was the Throne that his estate caused him to cover. He went from gazing in amazement and wonder at the Lord of Glory to looking upon himself. Then when he lost focus he left his estate full of pride and forgot why he was dazzling to behold and why he was so gifted. It wasn't him, it was the One who made Him. Like most men do these days he sawed off the branch upon which he was standing and the pride of his own life took control of his destiny. He sinned and believed that because he was clothed in borrowed glory that he was as Truly Glorious as the One who created him.

That's when his name changed from Daystar, which merely represented what he covered, to satan (adversary and accuser).

His name was a reflection of the Glory of God which it was a blessing to be a part of to that of an inglorious enemy and adversary. Sadly, he has no kinsmen redeemer. His end is known.

I just read this passage this morning;

Ps 9:6

O you enemy, destructions are come to an everlasting end: and you have destroyed cities; their memory is perished with them.

Here's another translation;

Ps 9:6

The enemy is overtaken by endless ruin. The very memory of the cities which you have overthrown has perished.

The enemy of our souls is headed for endless ruin, endless destruction.

There is reference to names being changed all through scripture. It has to do with new charecter. Abram to Abraham. Jacob to Israel. Why not Lucifer to satan?

Wouldn't it work backwards as well? This created beings nature changed from reflecting the Lord's Glory to opposing it.

Peace,

Dave

well I really just don't know about all this. Where does it say his pre fall name was lucifer...sorry maybe I'm just stupid, so I guess I need a bunch of thumbs up thrown

in my face and big laughing faces to point out how easiliy understood you are.

See if Lucifer were his pre fall name, then why in Luke 10:18 does our Lord refer to him as satan?? I'm quite sure the folks He was talking to would have understood.

Well as far as the name change example you gave...well...the bible is pretty clear on who's name is being changed, it actually points out that the name is being changed.....and then you say " why not lucifer to satan "...well I have not yet seen the scripture that pointedly states the change as with the others.

[JCISGD]

Easy on there HP, i think a little christian grace might go along way to handling the (percieved?) annoyances of another personality? i dont think Dave was posting in any superior manner, perhaps you had a rough day mate.

No emoticons were harmed or used in the making of this post.

[nebula]

well I really just don't know about all this. Where does it say his pre fall name was lucifer...sorry maybe I'm just stupid, so I guess I need a bunch of thumbs up thrown

in my face and big laughing faces to point out how easiliy understood you are.

See if Lucifer were his pre fall name, then why in Luke 10:18 does our Lord refer to him as satan?? I'm quite sure the folks He was talking to would have understood.

Well as far as the name change example you gave...well...the bible is pretty clear on who's name is being changed, it actually points out that the name is being changed.....and then you say " why not lucifer to satan "...well I have not yet seen the scripture that pointedly states the change as with the others.

I've often wondered if "Satan" was meant to be a name rather than a title.

In Hebrew, he is called ha-Satan, which means "the Deceiver."

Of course, in Jewish thinking their concept of ha-Satan is different than ours. It is interesting to study.

Here is an explanation

[nebula]

As I'm sure you know Isa 14:12 reads, "How you are fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!" The only other reference to the term "Morning Star" are in Rev 22:16b as the Lord Jesus says, "...I AM the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

We find it written, "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." (1Cor 15:45) Adam is the one that was in the heavenlies, Adam is the one that fell. The words of Satan was the day that you shall eat of it "...you shall be AS GODS..." (Gen 3:5)

It is said in accordance with popular "teaching" that Satan wanted to overthrow God and become himself God. But, the account in Isaiah is in line with the temptation as we read, "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE the most High." (Isa 14:14) NOT be God, but BE LIKE God.

How can a "man" fall from heaven then? Have we not all been, "...raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." (Eph 2:6) Can we fall? You bet we can.

Jesus said that He saw Satan fall like lightning from Heaven.

[sdktlk]

As I'm sure you know Isa 14:12 reads, "How you are fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!" The only other reference to the term "Morning Star" are in Rev 22:16b as the Lord Jesus says, "...I AM the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

We find it written, "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit." (1Cor 15:45) Adam is the one that was in the heavenlies, Adam is the one that fell. The words of Satan was the day that you shall eat of it "...you shall be AS GODS..." (Gen 3:5)

It is said in accordance with popular "teaching" that Satan wanted to overthrow God and become himself God. But, the account in Isaiah is in line with the temptation as we read, "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I WILL BE LIKE the most High." (Isa 14:14) NOT be God, but BE LIKE God.

How can a "man" fall from heaven then? Have we not all been, "...raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus..." (Eph 2:6) Can we fall? You bet we can.

Jesus said that He saw Satan fall like lightning from Heaven.

Yes, He did. But, that was in response to the disciples rejoicing over the fact that unclean spirits were subject to them. For the Lord to have been making a statement to the fact that He saw Satan fall sometime before the foundation of the world would have had no relevance at all to the subject at hand. And, as we know EVERY Word the Lord spoke has direct relevance to that which was at hand. The import here is that this was the beginning of the end for Satan to have access to the heavenly realm any longer.

When, at Calvary, Satan had the Lord Jesus murdered without cause the Lord then had the right to take back from Satan that which Adam had willing given him in the Garden. Which was the ability to come into God's presence and to rule the world.

It was Adam who was, "...the anointed cherub that covered..," and when he willing yielded to Satan he gave all his authority and position to him.

We read, "And the devil, taking Him up into an high mountain, shewed unto Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto Him, All this power will I give You, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it." (Luk 4:5-6) Who was it that delivered "all the kingdoms of the world" to Satan? It was Adam without a doubt as the Lord had given it all to Adam and Adam, in turn, gave it all to the devil by his willful disobedience.

[Hunterpoet]

well I really just don't know about all this. Where does it say his pre fall name was lucifer...sorry maybe I'm just stupid, so I guess I need a bunch of thumbs up thrown

in my face and big laughing faces to point out how easiliy understood you are.

See if Lucifer were his pre fall name, then why in Luke 10:18 does our Lord refer to him as satan?? I'm quite sure the folks He was talking to would have understood.

Well as far as the name change example you gave...well...the bible is pretty clear on who's name is being changed, it actually points out that the name is being changed.....and then you say " why not lucifer to satan "...well I have not yet seen the scripture that pointedly states the change as with the others.

I've often wondered if "Satan" was meant to be a name rather than a title.

In Hebrew, he is called ha-Satan, which means "the Deceiver."

Of course, in Jewish thinking their concept of ha-Satan is different than ours. It is interesting to study.

Here is an explanation

Interesting..so in Hebrew he is the Deceiver, in Judaism he is the accuser, and in Christianity the enemy of God....

I'm beginning to understand why people walk away.