The Message

[Matthitjah]

How insignificant is it then to argue over one English version, in a line of MANY!

because;

2Ti 4:2

Preach the word; be diligent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2Ti 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they draw to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto myths.

[ManApart]

It seems that something that the human race puts so much faith and belief in, would be researched, learned, and known inside and out. I personally feel that if I am going to put my sincere trust and faith n something, I am going to known all about it...not just what someone tells me....unfortunately, the majority of the religious body does not think that way.

First, there would be no need for faith if God or His Word could be known inside and out.

Second, if you know all about it as you state, then you are God and will surely teach the rest of us all things.

Third, I am a follower of the Lord Jesus Christ, not to be confused with any religious body.

Then in your next post

You will find in these forums that people do not answer questions because they lack the knowledge. They think they know it all, but are far from the truth. Like a child first learning to add...thy think they know it all, yet have no knowledge of algebra or calculus.

You would be correct in that statement, if it were directed toward me (but I know that isn't the case). I don't answer many questions because of my lack of knowledge. I exercise great caution for fear of misleading someone or taking Scripture out of context. I don't have great knowledge of Scripture but I am learning and I thank Him that He has blessed me with a passion for learning. I do however, love the Lord. I do trust Him and that trust wasn't built over years of studying any particular translation or paraphrase. It's not blind faith, for true faith isn't blind. The more I learn of Him, the more knowledge I acquire, the more I love Him and am in awe of Him. I'm certain that I am not far from the Truth as He confirms His Word throughout Scripture.

Perhaps you should check your heart and see how much it lines up with your knowledge and even more, with the heart of God. A great many people know of Him without actually knowing Him. I trust, considering the confidence with which you write, that you are not one to be categorized as such.

I am like a child first learning to add except for the part of thinking that I know it all. Algebra or calculus are totally lost on me. One's knowledge, or lack thereof, is no measure of faith.

I thank you for your comment....I believe that what was said may have been misunderstood. My mentioning to know inside and out, what I place my trust in, is not meant to convey to know the infinite personality of the Divine Nature, in it's entirety. That is not possible at the current time. Man can not know the extent of God. In the book of Isaiah, in the Duetro-Isaiah passages, Chapter 55 expresses that God's thoughts and ways and much higher than His. Proverbs, Chapter 3 says to not lean on our own understanding. This is known. But from the perspective of a person, an individual, when approaching something that will drive all I do, I will ensure that I study daily and apply myself to understanding. Faith drives this. Faith, when translated closer to the original Greek from a Hebrew/ Jewish mindset, means trust.

To trust, one must feel sincerity in what is being trusted. This comes to the heart. The heart being the center of all we do. Our feelings, emotions, etc. The depth of our desires, motives, and intentions. It drives every aspect of who we are, whether we realize it or not.

I can say yes, that I honestly do know alot when it comes to religion and belief systems. I have studied them inside and out as thoroughly as I can...and you know, i am no where near the potential that is within us. I am not God...but you can agree, as a Christian, we are His children. As one comes to Christ, and the transformation begins, their is the inheritance of the Kingdom. I may not be God, but the Essence of the Creator is within me. And to know that I am a part of the Divine Intelligence creates nothing but awe and respect.

To be a follower of Christ...there is a reason there are no true images of Jesus. Too many people even today, become to obsessed with the imagery of the image of Christ and fail to learn his Nature. His Nature is the only way we can become truly intimate and personal with Christ. That comes with prayer, meditation, contemplation, and most of studying who Jesus really was. Removing the contortions and manipulations of scripture. One has to know how he walked, thought, taught, spoke, etc...and to know it thoroughly, one has to understand the Jewish culture, traditions and customs. Get to know Jesus personally.

I assure you that my heart is right. The truth changes as you grow. I was raised in the church, and have studied very thoroughly because of my heart. You have to learn to rely on the Spirit, and not what man and others tell you. Your heart will seek the Lord, and doors will open. True Divine wisdom is hidden like buried treasure; Proverbs stresses this. This spreading out of the hidden truths and mysteries preserves the truth and also shows who really has the determination to seek God. If you really want to know the Divine nature, you will seek and search with so much passion...it will overwhelm you.

Knowledge and faith go hand and hand. Hosea 4:6 says, " My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee...." In the Tanakh, the original translation of that verse in the Hebrew says that we are destroyed for a lack of obedience. One who has faith needs to not be idle, faith without works is dead. Waiting on the Lord is active, to serve, and to be obedient is to study and seek.

"I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me." - Proverbs 8:17

"The Lord is good unto them that wait for Him, to the soul that seeketh Him." - Lamentations 3:25

Must have heart...it is the key to enlightenment of the Spirit.

"But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy God, thou shalt find Him, if thou seek Him with all thy heart, and with all thy soul." - Deuteronomy 4:29

"...serve Him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind; for the Lord searcheth the hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts..." - 1 Chronicles 28:9

"Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye search for me with all your heart."- Jeremiah 29:12-13

Continue to grow and mature...seek and search the truth for yourself. Grow in Christ. May grace and peace be with you.

[ManApart]

How insignificant is it then to argue over one English version, in a line of MANY!

because;

2Ti 4:2

Preach the word; be diligent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2Ti 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they draw to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto myths.

I agree... I do, but my point was that knowing those scriptures you mentioned, we should have reverence for the original oracles, not argue over one of the many distorted versions. No point in fighting or arguing over the many new versions and translations...we know they are not accurate, but they still can be beneficial for edification.

Plus we have to understand that the Word of God is not eh words in black on a white page. Those change; always have always will. God does not change,. and the Word does not either. The Word of God is the message; the morals, principles, teachings, characteristics, and attributes of the Divine nature expressed by man through inspiration. That does not change, and is what students should be focusing on, not all the fantasy and story-telling most endure. So we do see today that the majority have turned from the truth....seems most fantasy, fables, and myths are being taken as literal.

May grace and peace be with you....

[Matthitjah]

but they still can be beneficial for edification.

I disagree wholeheratedly.

How can a house built upon shifting sand be beneficial for edification?

It has been proven in this thread that The Message purports itself to be a Bible and not merely a translation. Therefore, we are commnanded to examine it. It also has been shown in this thread that it distorts the God of our Gospel.

We have two opitons here. To fully embrace it or caste it off.

We have a scriptural mandate;

1Jo 4:1

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2Co 11:2

For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

2Co 11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his cunning, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

2Co 11:4

For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another gospel, which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him.

Ga 1:7

Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Ga 1:8

But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Ga 1:9

As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that you have received, let him be accursed.

Back to the point that I disagree with you about. How can there be any Light coming from the darkness?

Mt 6:22

The light of the body is the eye: if therefore your eye be sound, your whole body shall be full of light.

Mt 6:23

But if your eye be evil, your whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you be darkness, how great is that darkness!

"Be careful what you see little eyes little eyes, be careful what you see little eyes. Be careful what you hear little ears little ears, be careful what you hear little ears. Be careful whom you trust little heart little heart, be careful whom you trust little heart. For the Father up above is looking down in Love"

Grace and Peace to you too brother,

Dave

[Saved2Serve]

My response to 'The Message' translation,

if the Devil cannot stop people from reading God's Word, he'll corrupt God's Word!

Edited June 13, 2011 by Saved2Serve

[OneLight]

How insignificant is it then to argue over one English version, in a line of MANY!

because;

2Ti 4:2

Preach the word; be diligent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

2Ti 4:3

For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they draw to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

2Ti 4:4

And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto myths.

I agree... I do, but my point was that knowing those scriptures you mentioned, we should have reverence for the original oracles, not argue over one of the many distorted versions. No point in fighting or arguing over the many new versions and translations...we know they are not accurate, but they still can be beneficial for edification.

Plus we have to understand that the Word of God is not eh words in black on a white page. Those change; always have always will. God does not change,. and the Word does not either. The Word of God is the message; the morals, principles, teachings, characteristics, and attributes of the Divine nature expressed by man through inspiration. That does not change, and is what students should be focusing on, not all the fantasy and story-telling most endure. So we do see today that the majority have turned from the truth....seems most fantasy, fables, and myths are being taken as literal.

May grace and peace be with you....

You are confusing. You say that we should strive to know God, but excuse the lies in a book that someone calls the bible which can lead someone down the wrong path. Didn't Christ come to shine light into the darkness, and has He not told us to do the same? I do agree that we should go back to the copies of the originals that are available today and glean from them as much guidance as we can. Then what? Are we to remain silent when we see errors?

[ayin jade]

I agree... I do, but my point was that knowing those scriptures you mentioned, we should have reverence for the original oracles, not argue over one of the many distorted versions. No point in fighting or arguing over the many new versions and translations...we know they are not accurate, but they still can be beneficial for edification.

Plus we have to understand that the Word of God is not eh words in black on a white page. Those change; always have always will. God does not change,. and the Word does not either. The Word of God is the message; the morals, principles, teachings, characteristics, and attributes of the Divine nature expressed by man through inspiration. That does not change, and is what students should be focusing on, not all the fantasy and story-telling most endure. So we do see today that the majority have turned from the truth....seems most fantasy, fables, and myths are being taken as literal.

May grace and peace be with you....

Ok Im curious. Do you think the stories in the bible are fantasy fables and myths?

[Guest man]

To be a follower of Christ...there is a reason there are no true images of Jesus. Too many people even today, become to obsessed with the imagery of the image of Christ and fail to learn his Nature. His Nature is the only way we can become truly intimate and personal with Christ. That comes with prayer, meditation, contemplation, and most of studying who Jesus really was. Removing the contortions and manipulations of scripture. One has to know how he walked, thought, taught, spoke, etc...and to know it thoroughly, one has to understand the Jewish culture, traditions and customs. Get to know Jesus personally.

That's not true.

[Shiloh62]

Does anyone have a "Message" bible? What are your thoughts on the accuracy and layout on this translation? I find it frustrating that it lumps the verses into paragraphs, and doesn't break them down verse by verse, so you don't know where one ends and the next one starts.

Think genuine

[Shiloh62]

Does anyone have a "Message" bible? What are your thoughts on the accuracy and layout on this translation? I find it frustrating that it lumps the verses into paragraphs, and doesn't break them down verse by verse, so you don't know where one ends and the next one starts.

i'm sure this will turn into a message bashing thread, so hopefully you'll see my thoughts before that happens.

i think it's a decent paraphrase, and i think it's more readable for kids and teens. so for that reason, i think it has a target audience that needs it and can be drawn to Christ through it. i won't knock it for that reason. my pastor often uses it in his sermons... we're a recovery church and have people coming in off the street. it's good for them. it reaches them. it speaks in a language that they can relate to.

but me personally, i don't care for it. i'm like you, it lumps things into paragraphs. you can't find the verses you're looking for. beyond that, it elaborates too much. it's way too wordy. and because of that wordiness, it sometimes gets a little off track from straight scripture, and can lead to misunderstandings in some parts. not all parts, i think MOST of the time it sticks very closely to scripture, but there are areas where it doesn't.

it's absolutely NOT good for study. oh man, it's good reading if you like a more novel-ish format, but it's definitely not good for study, and i hope that any young person who starts out with the message will graduate to a real bible in time.

but honestly, i think if someone really wants a paraphrase bible (face it, they are more "digestible" for new christians) they should skip the message and go for the "new living translation". that one also uses more common street lingo, and in fact, it uses more believable street lingo. the message tries too hard. the NLT sounds like how we really talk. and without being too wordy. and without writing paragraphs around verses. still, it's a paraphrase and not suitable for serious study.

The first translation I read from cover to cover was a bible directed at teens in the 1970's called "The Way." You guys remeber that one? It was a paperback bound first Living Bible,and it was really easy to read, but fromn what I understand the first Living translation wasn't accurate, hence the "New" Living translation.