So who is really destroying our world?

[LOVE SONGS]

(quote)Interplanner....

the kind of environmental guilt that has people becoming plantarians (those who feel bad for using knives to harvest plants, so they only eat things that fall!).

That has nothing to do with the atmospheric problems that are dangerous to our health ...the air that people need is

poluted .

[LOVE SONGS]

To Fez,

there is a lot of unsupported guilt in that, Fez. There are a few systems that are weakened locally, but "destroying the earth" is way over the top, and as I said above I doubt that is what John in Rev. meant. Don't use liberal/environmental guilt as a tool for the Gospel, because it validates something that has its roots in a very different source. This kind of misunderstanding comes from too much reading the Bible apart from its historic sense, deeply interlocked with the situations of the 1st century.

God's destruction of the earth in 2 Pet. 3 is a very different question from the kind of environmental guilt that has people becoming plantarians (those who feel bad for using knives to harvest plants, so they only eat things that fall!).

--Inter

Do you drive a car, leave the tap on when brushing your teeth, leave lights on when not needed, eat take out from polystyrene containers, use high phosphate detergents (do you know what is in your detergents?) What do you do with your old cooking oil, fried anything lately? What temp is your housing hot water set to? You don't use contraceptive pills, but do you know where the chemical content of the urine of millions who do goes, and what it does?

Etc....

No guilt just fact, and if you knew what I did for a living, you would understand that.

And by the way, I am not a bunny hugger.... Just a pragmatist.

We are destroying the world, and many of us who care, don't actually know how.

Man is doing a good job of destroying our world that is for sure.

And God will destroy man and earth when He come back again....because of their wickedness.

[Fez]

Ban plastic bags if it makes you feel good, and our cities look cleaner......

But...

It takes four times more energy to make a paper bag than it does a plastic bag..

First you gotta plant a tree. Water it, prune it, protect it from fires, wait 7 years (in a gum plantation), while paying people to weed, cut fire breaks, spray herbicide and growth hormones on the "cloned" trees, fell the trees using machinery, stack the logs, take the logs to the paper mill (now there is an energy sump!), make paper, send the paper to the bag factory, make the bag, print the bag, deliver the bag, etc, etc.

Not marxism. Capitalism and politics.

We are destroying our world, all of us. And we don't even know it. Well we do, but chose to remain blind and blame "them".

[Sevenseas]

sevenseas: I have never spoke about the end of the world. I have spoken about the end of the age as far as the fullness of the gentiles being come in. I began to speak about it once and was shut down immediately so I have let it go. People can figure it out for themselves when things fall apart for the gentile church. I have no idea what your last comment is about as God knew everything that would happen including his cursing the earth and destroying it twice, once yet to come.

Gary

Well, what you call being shut down may be people who just do not see what you think you see. Personally, I worry less about the end of whatever

than I do about following Christ.

I am positive that God knew things would not go that simply since satan was already parading around down here. Pretty sure God knew about that.

What's not to understand? It appears you actually have said the same thing above....

IMO, people run into problems when they become more involved with what is going to happen then what IS happening in the here and now

You can only do something about the future in the present tense.

[Sevenseas]

God's destruction of the earth in 2 Pet. 3 is a very different question from the kind of environmental guilt that has people becoming plantarians (those who feel bad for using knives to harvest plants, so they only eat things that fall!).

eh? While I agree there is more than alot of people are comfortable with in regard s to Gen and II Peter, I think it is streeeetching things to try

and make some kind of comparison with respect to what Fez and some others have stated regarding care of the planet

No one, absolutely no one, has stated anything to indicate affection for the yarns spun by so called government propaganda climatologists

or wag the dog scenarios ... you have sidetracked what actually has been said IMO by making a giant leap that, as far as I can tell,

has not actually been made here; which, leaves me wondering what button was pushed?

While I affirm that God does know everything, we do not. I have a personal distaste for trying to prove every event that may or may not

occur from scripture. I also do not believe in hidden messages in some kind of bizarre numeric system or that we can figure out what Christ

Himself says He doesn't know if we scramble the book of Daniel enough times. (this is not in reference to what you have stated inter)

There is just alot of garbage on both sides of the coin, IMO, and the truth is yelling around in the streets (Proverbs) and who pays attention?

End of rant

As far as I know, it isn't imps or bleeding hearts destroying the rain forests or small stands of hardwood trees remaining

where I live. It is common sense to do certain things and totally ignorant and oblivious of scripture to do entertain the idea

that human beings rule the planet . Taking care of something does not mean destroying it by using it until it is no good

for anyone anymore.

Tree hugger? no...animal activist? no...just common sense

Below is a copy paste but what I would state if I had the time at the moment to go look it all up and put it together myself

Satan is called the "prince of the power of the air" in Ephesians 2:2. He is called the "ruler of this world" in John 12:31. These titles, and many more attributed to Satan throughout Scripture, signify his capabilities. To say, for example, that Satan is the "prince of the power of the air" is to signify that in some way he rules over the world and the people in it.

This is not to say that he rules the world completely; only God does this. But it does mean that God, in His infinite wisdom, has allowed Satan to operate in this world (within the boundaries God has set for him) and has allowed Satan to operate with an agenda. When the Bible says Satan has power over the world, it must be made clear that God has given him domain over unbelievers alone. Believers are no longer under the rule of Satan (Colossians 1:13). Unbelievers, on the other hand, are caught "in the snare of the devil" (2 Timothy 2:26), lie in the "power of the evil one" (1 John 5:19), and are in bondage to Satan (Ephesians 2:2)

The truth is that the battle is still between God and the devil and we simply choose which side we are on and pray that God helps

our unbelief.

The truth also is that God knows those who are His...freedom? Well you can't serve two masters...

Edited June 18, 2012 by sevenseas

[nebula]

Ban plastic bags if it makes you feel good, and our cities look cleaner......

But...

It takes four times more energy to make a paper bag than it does a plastic bag..

First you gotta plant a tree. Water it, prune it, protect it from fires, wait 7 years (in a gum plantation), while paying people to weed, cut fire breaks, spray herbicide and growth hormones on the "cloned" trees, fell the trees using machinery, stack the logs, take the logs to the paper mill (now there is an energy sump!), make paper, send the paper to the bag factory, make the bag, print the bag, deliver the bag, etc, etc.

I understand, Fez. There are no easy answers. One solution creates another problem.

What frustrates me is how so many deny that land run-off into rivers, pollution, toxins, etc. are a problem and are causing problems. Yes, a lot of the "green" movement is a lot more show than substance, but there's something to be said for disposing of trash and wastes properly and reducing waste wherever possible.

[other one]

sevenseas: I have never spoke about the end of the world. I have spoken about the end of the age as far as the fullness of the gentiles being come in. I began to speak about it once and was shut down immediately so I have let it go. People can figure it out for themselves when things fall apart for the gentile church. I have no idea what your last comment is about as God knew everything that would happen including his cursing the earth and destroying it twice, once yet to come.

Gary

Well, what you call being shut down may be people who just do not see what you think you see. Personally, I worry less about the end of whatever

than I do about following Christ.

I am positive that God knew things would not go that simply since satan was already parading around down here. Pretty sure God knew about that.

What's not to understand? It appears you actually have said the same thing above....

IMO, people run into problems when they become more involved with what is going to happen then what IS happening in the here and now

You can only do something about the future in the present tense.

You seem to want to demand that everyone walk the same walk that you do...... it annoying.

[Fez]

Ban plastic bags if it makes you feel good, and our cities look cleaner......

But...

It takes four times more energy to make a paper bag than it does a plastic bag..

First you gotta plant a tree. Water it, prune it, protect it from fires, wait 7 years (in a gum plantation), while paying people to weed, cut fire breaks, spray herbicide and growth hormones on the "cloned" trees, fell the trees using machinery, stack the logs, take the logs to the paper mill (now there is an energy sump!), make paper, send the paper to the bag factory, make the bag, print the bag, deliver the bag, etc, etc.

I understand, Fez. There are no easy answers. One solution creates another problem.

What frustrates me is how so many deny that land run-off into rivers, pollution, toxins, etc. are a problem and are causing problems. Yes, a lot of the "green" movement is a lot more show than substance, but there's something to be said for disposing of trash and wastes properly and reducing waste wherever possible.

I agree.

Some small sensible precautions by all of us would make a big difference.

With stuff like open cast mining, I am the first to agree that we need the minerals, etc, to survive. We are not living in the stone age. But when it gets to naked greed vs environment, and people's right to clean air and water, etc, I get a tad miffed......

If one's parents saved up money over the year to by one a new playstation because they loved one, and wanted one to have the best. And it arrived, all bright and shiny, and one decided in a pique of anger, because the game would not do what one wanted it to do, one smashed it with a hammer, one's parents would be shocked, angry and disappointed.

God gave us a bright shining world.........

[gdemoss]

I understand the view that people have that God gave us a world to live in and that we ought to be good stewards with that which God has given us but I must have missed where it spoke about that in the bible. It must be something that is derived from many verses pointing to the doctrine that I am missing. Can we do a scripture study on the verses one uses to come to the conclusion that we are responsible for understanding the impact of each and everything we invent and do? Scripture examples of God teaching man how to care for the planet since we know nothing of ourselves that is right? If it is our responsibility to know how and to take care of the planet, where are the instructions? Please don't just ask questions back, but instead bring out the truth of the scriptures so all can see them. All I have ever seen is God causing this or that to happen in response to man's disobedience unto him. The result being the destruction or curse of the world. Please help me see the other from scripture.

Gary

[xero]

Theres no saving this world.

Edited June 18, 2012 by xero