Do you think you should be a member of your church?

[j102]

I have a church that I go to sometimes. I like the bible study part, but I like to do my worshipping to God in private. It feels wierd to do it with a crowd of people.

This Sunday I am getting baptized in my church .

good to hear that your getting baptized

[gdemoss]

In the recent past, I was part of a church that had a church covenant and articles of organization that one had to agree to in order to be a member of the local body and have rights given unto you for deciding things such as budgets etc. I was led to go back and reread what I agreed to after 3 years of growing in my faith. I realized at that moment that I was a covenant breaker before God that had agreed to place a yoke upon myself that should never have been there in the first place.

I wrote a letter to the pastor explaining that I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement for conscience sake. Here is an expert from his reply to me.

I will share your letter with the deacons and inform the church that you are no longer a member and they should not consider or treat you as if you are a part of the body. I do not think the deacons will pursue questions regarding your decision because you have not shown yourself to be teachable, but contrarian. One voluntarily enters into membership, and we acknowledge that you are free to voluntarily remove yourself from the body for matters of conscience. You need to know that I disagree with your reasoning, at least from what I am able to discern from your letter.

...

Do not think that by simply “coming” to church and remaining aloof from others that you are fulfilling the bibilical “one-anothers” and commands for unity and one mind in the church. The Holy Spirit will simply not lead someone to act contrary to the written Word of God.

...

Since you have stated your intent to continue to attend, you need to know that the relationship between you and the church body will need to change. I will protect the flock over which the Lord has made me an overseer. I will ask you not to engage any visitor in conversation, lest they mistake you for someone who has identified with and is committed to the beliefs and health of the church body. I cannot allow your unorthodox views to become associated with our church. I also intend to carefully watch your interactions with our church family to guard against any divisive, confusing and harmful false teaching or influences.

I took some time to meditate on that which was said and sent another letter to the pastor to address his accusations toward me, to which I never received a reply.

Be careful who you sign what with as covenant agreements with local bodies are designed for the purpose of control. Once you agree to do that which their covenant says, you are obligated to be under their form of government and control even if it is contrary to that which Jesus said church government would be.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

[Steve_S]

In the recent past, I was part of a church that had a church covenant and articles of organization that one had to agree to in order to be a member of the local body and have rights given unto you for deciding things such as budgets etc. I was led to go back and reread what I agreed to after 3 years of growing in my faith. I realized at that moment that I was a covenant breaker before God that had agreed to place a yoke upon myself that should never have been there in the first place.

I wrote a letter to the pastor explaining that I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement for conscience sake. Here is an expert from his reply to me.

I will share your letter with the deacons and inform the church that you are no longer a member and they should not consider or treat you as if you are a part of the body. I do not think the deacons will pursue questions regarding your decision because you have not shown yourself to be teachable, but contrarian. One voluntarily enters into membership, and we acknowledge that you are free to voluntarily remove yourself from the body for matters of conscience. You need to know that I disagree with your reasoning, at least from what I am able to discern from your letter.

...

Do not think that by simply “coming” to church and remaining aloof from others that you are fulfilling the bibilical “one-anothers” and commands for unity and one mind in the church. The Holy Spirit will simply not lead someone to act contrary to the written Word of God.

...

Since you have stated your intent to continue to attend, you need to know that the relationship between you and the church body will need to change. I will protect the flock over which the Lord has made me an overseer. I will ask you not to engage any visitor in conversation, lest they mistake you for someone who has identified with and is committed to the beliefs and health of the church body. I cannot allow your unorthodox views to become associated with our church. I also intend to carefully watch your interactions with our church family to guard against any divisive, confusing and harmful false teaching or influences.

I took some time to meditate on that which was said and sent another letter to the pastor to address his accusations toward me, to which I never received a reply.

Be careful who you sign what with as covenant agreements with local bodies are designed for the purpose of control. Once you agree to do that which their covenant says, you are obligated to be under their form of government and control even if it is contrary to that which Jesus said church government would be.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

The main question here would be what your doctrinal differences with him were, because, quite frankly, if you did have significant doctrinal disagreements and he believed that you had went down a doctrinal path which was errant then he would need to do what he did.

[Littlelambseativy]

I have been a member of a church since age 13. Yes you sign a membership but it does not obligate you to anything other than for them to have a record of who and how many their members are. I does make a difference if you are to be elected an elder since only members can be elders. As to telling you how much you must give - you give as you are blessed or what you can. If you can give more you are to give to cover the one who can not give as much. We do not tithe. As far as going to a Bible study I think it is beneficial - no that you cannot study on your own but one learns many things at a study that can broaden your understanding of the Bible. You can serve on a Board without being a member or assist in any project if you have the time and expertise.

[gdemoss]

In the recent past, I was part of a church that had a church covenant and articles of organization that one had to agree to in order to be a member of the local body and have rights given unto you for deciding things such as budgets etc. I was led to go back and reread what I agreed to after 3 years of growing in my faith. I realized at that moment that I was a covenant breaker before God that had agreed to place a yoke upon myself that should never have been there in the first place.

I wrote a letter to the pastor explaining that I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement for conscience sake. Here is an expert from his reply to me.

I will share your letter with the deacons and inform the church that you are no longer a member and they should not consider or treat you as if you are a part of the body. I do not think the deacons will pursue questions regarding your decision because you have not shown yourself to be teachable, but contrarian. One voluntarily enters into membership, and we acknowledge that you are free to voluntarily remove yourself from the body for matters of conscience. You need to know that I disagree with your reasoning, at least from what I am able to discern from your letter.

...

Do not think that by simply “coming” to church and remaining aloof from others that you are fulfilling the bibilical “one-anothers” and commands for unity and one mind in the church. The Holy Spirit will simply not lead someone to act contrary to the written Word of God.

...

Since you have stated your intent to continue to attend, you need to know that the relationship between you and the church body will need to change. I will protect the flock over which the Lord has made me an overseer. I will ask you not to engage any visitor in conversation, lest they mistake you for someone who has identified with and is committed to the beliefs and health of the church body. I cannot allow your unorthodox views to become associated with our church. I also intend to carefully watch your interactions with our church family to guard against any divisive, confusing and harmful false teaching or influences.

I took some time to meditate on that which was said and sent another letter to the pastor to address his accusations toward me, to which I never received a reply.

Be careful who you sign what with as covenant agreements with local bodies are designed for the purpose of control. Once you agree to do that which their covenant says, you are obligated to be under their form of government and control even if it is contrary to that which Jesus said church government would be.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

The main question here would be what your doctrinal differences with him were, because, quite frankly, if you did have significant doctrinal disagreements and he believed that you had went down a doctrinal path which was errant then he would need to do what he did.

There were no doctrinal differences specifically addressed in my letter to him or his letter back to me. The letter simply stated that for conscience sake I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement. But my point is still that we need to be careful as Christians not to enter into written contractual agreements as there is a real danger of placing yourself into harms way without knowing what we're doing.

Gary

[Steve_S]

In the recent past, I was part of a church that had a church covenant and articles of organization that one had to agree to in order to be a member of the local body and have rights given unto you for deciding things such as budgets etc. I was led to go back and reread what I agreed to after 3 years of growing in my faith. I realized at that moment that I was a covenant breaker before God that had agreed to place a yoke upon myself that should never have been there in the first place.

I wrote a letter to the pastor explaining that I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement for conscience sake. Here is an expert from his reply to me.

I will share your letter with the deacons and inform the church that you are no longer a member and they should not consider or treat you as if you are a part of the body. I do not think the deacons will pursue questions regarding your decision because you have not shown yourself to be teachable, but contrarian. One voluntarily enters into membership, and we acknowledge that you are free to voluntarily remove yourself from the body for matters of conscience. You need to know that I disagree with your reasoning, at least from what I am able to discern from your letter.

...

Do not think that by simply “coming” to church and remaining aloof from others that you are fulfilling the bibilical “one-anothers” and commands for unity and one mind in the church. The Holy Spirit will simply not lead someone to act contrary to the written Word of God.

...

Since you have stated your intent to continue to attend, you need to know that the relationship between you and the church body will need to change. I will protect the flock over which the Lord has made me an overseer. I will ask you not to engage any visitor in conversation, lest they mistake you for someone who has identified with and is committed to the beliefs and health of the church body. I cannot allow your unorthodox views to become associated with our church. I also intend to carefully watch your interactions with our church family to guard against any divisive, confusing and harmful false teaching or influences.

I took some time to meditate on that which was said and sent another letter to the pastor to address his accusations toward me, to which I never received a reply.

Be careful who you sign what with as covenant agreements with local bodies are designed for the purpose of control. Once you agree to do that which their covenant says, you are obligated to be under their form of government and control even if it is contrary to that which Jesus said church government would be.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

The main question here would be what your doctrinal differences with him were, because, quite frankly, if you did have significant doctrinal disagreements and he believed that you had went down a doctrinal path which was errant then he would need to do what he did.

There were no doctrinal differences specifically addressed in my letter to him or his letter back to me. The letter simply stated that for conscience sake I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement. But my point is still that we need to be careful as Christians not to enter into written contractual agreements as there is a real danger of placing yourself into harms way without knowing what we're doing.

Gary

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you on that point. But if there were clear doctrinal differences that had been delineated outside of the letters and he saw it as a progression he may have been well within his rights. I'm not advocating for or against you or him, but since he's not here to defend his actions then I think it's important that we not jump to conclusions without all of the facts.

[gdemoss]

In the recent past, I was part of a church that had a church covenant and articles of organization that one had to agree to in order to be a member of the local body and have rights given unto you for deciding things such as budgets etc. I was led to go back and reread what I agreed to after 3 years of growing in my faith. I realized at that moment that I was a covenant breaker before God that had agreed to place a yoke upon myself that should never have been there in the first place.

I wrote a letter to the pastor explaining that I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement for conscience sake. Here is an expert from his reply to me.

I will share your letter with the deacons and inform the church that you are no longer a member and they should not consider or treat you as if you are a part of the body. I do not think the deacons will pursue questions regarding your decision because you have not shown yourself to be teachable, but contrarian. One voluntarily enters into membership, and we acknowledge that you are free to voluntarily remove yourself from the body for matters of conscience. You need to know that I disagree with your reasoning, at least from what I am able to discern from your letter.

...

Do not think that by simply “coming” to church and remaining aloof from others that you are fulfilling the bibilical “one-anothers” and commands for unity and one mind in the church. The Holy Spirit will simply not lead someone to act contrary to the written Word of God.

...

Since you have stated your intent to continue to attend, you need to know that the relationship between you and the church body will need to change. I will protect the flock over which the Lord has made me an overseer. I will ask you not to engage any visitor in conversation, lest they mistake you for someone who has identified with and is committed to the beliefs and health of the church body. I cannot allow your unorthodox views to become associated with our church. I also intend to carefully watch your interactions with our church family to guard against any divisive, confusing and harmful false teaching or influences.

I took some time to meditate on that which was said and sent another letter to the pastor to address his accusations toward me, to which I never received a reply.

Be careful who you sign what with as covenant agreements with local bodies are designed for the purpose of control. Once you agree to do that which their covenant says, you are obligated to be under their form of government and control even if it is contrary to that which Jesus said church government would be.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

The main question here would be what your doctrinal differences with him were, because, quite frankly, if you did have significant doctrinal disagreements and he believed that you had went down a doctrinal path which was errant then he would need to do what he did.

There were no doctrinal differences specifically addressed in my letter to him or his letter back to me. The letter simply stated that for conscience sake I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement. But my point is still that we need to be careful as Christians not to enter into written contractual agreements as there is a real danger of placing yourself into harms way without knowing what we're doing.

Gary

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you on that point. But if there were clear doctrinal differences that had been delineated outside of the letters and he saw it as a progression he may have been well within his rights. I'm not advocating for or against you or him, but since he's not here to defend his actions then I think it's important that we not jump to conclusions without all of the facts.

If you think it is important not to jump to conclusions then why are you jumping to the conclusion that there had been doctrinal differences delineated outside of the letters? I posted simple excerpts from a letter I received to relate a warning to others who may find themselves in a similar position. What was your motive for responding to it?

Gary

[Steve_S]

In the recent past, I was part of a church that had a church covenant and articles of organization that one had to agree to in order to be a member of the local body and have rights given unto you for deciding things such as budgets etc. I was led to go back and reread what I agreed to after 3 years of growing in my faith. I realized at that moment that I was a covenant breaker before God that had agreed to place a yoke upon myself that should never have been there in the first place.

I wrote a letter to the pastor explaining that I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement for conscience sake. Here is an expert from his reply to me.

I will share your letter with the deacons and inform the church that you are no longer a member and they should not consider or treat you as if you are a part of the body. I do not think the deacons will pursue questions regarding your decision because you have not shown yourself to be teachable, but contrarian. One voluntarily enters into membership, and we acknowledge that you are free to voluntarily remove yourself from the body for matters of conscience. You need to know that I disagree with your reasoning, at least from what I am able to discern from your letter.

...

Do not think that by simply “coming” to church and remaining aloof from others that you are fulfilling the bibilical “one-anothers” and commands for unity and one mind in the church. The Holy Spirit will simply not lead someone to act contrary to the written Word of God.

...

Since you have stated your intent to continue to attend, you need to know that the relationship between you and the church body will need to change. I will protect the flock over which the Lord has made me an overseer. I will ask you not to engage any visitor in conversation, lest they mistake you for someone who has identified with and is committed to the beliefs and health of the church body. I cannot allow your unorthodox views to become associated with our church. I also intend to carefully watch your interactions with our church family to guard against any divisive, confusing and harmful false teaching or influences.

I took some time to meditate on that which was said and sent another letter to the pastor to address his accusations toward me, to which I never received a reply.

Be careful who you sign what with as covenant agreements with local bodies are designed for the purpose of control. Once you agree to do that which their covenant says, you are obligated to be under their form of government and control even if it is contrary to that which Jesus said church government would be.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

The main question here would be what your doctrinal differences with him were, because, quite frankly, if you did have significant doctrinal disagreements and he believed that you had went down a doctrinal path which was errant then he would need to do what he did.

There were no doctrinal differences specifically addressed in my letter to him or his letter back to me. The letter simply stated that for conscience sake I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement. But my point is still that we need to be careful as Christians not to enter into written contractual agreements as there is a real danger of placing yourself into harms way without knowing what we're doing.

Gary

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you on that point. But if there were clear doctrinal differences that had been delineated outside of the letters and he saw it as a progression he may have been well within his rights. I'm not advocating for or against you or him, but since he's not here to defend his actions then I think it's important that we not jump to conclusions without all of the facts.

If you think it is important not to jump to conclusions then why are you jumping to the conclusion that there had been doctrinal differences delineated outside of the letters? I posted simple excerpts from a letter I received to relate a warning to others who may find themselves in a similar position. What was your motive for responding to it?

Gary

I'm not assuming for a 100 percent fact that there were doctrinal differences. My main motive for responding to it was this sentence....

Be careful who you sign what with as covenant agreements with local bodies are designed for the purpose of control.

With this (to me, anyway) there was the tacit implication that this applied to your situation. And if this applied to your situation then you were making the accusation that the church in question, and furthermore its pastor, had brought you into a covenant with them for the purpose of control. I just believed that, in fairness since this man is not here to defend himself personally and all we have is a snippet of an email from him and nothing further, that it be pointed out that there could have been valid reasons for him doing so, but I didn't say that there definitely were valid reasons for him doing so. This is not a personal attack on you, Gary, I just thought it important that what could very well be a man of God not have intimations leveled at him lightly without any recourse in a forum such as this with us getting only one part of one side of the story. He could very well be entirely in the wrong, I don't know, I don't know much of the situation, but the statement you wrote before and after the email had a slightly accusatory tone in my eyes. I apologize if that was not your intention and was not the case.

Having said that, I will ask, were there indeed doctrinal differences between you and he?

[gdemoss]

In the recent past, I was part of a church that had a church covenant and articles of organization that one had to agree to in order to be a member of the local body and have rights given unto you for deciding things such as budgets etc. I was led to go back and reread what I agreed to after 3 years of growing in my faith. I realized at that moment that I was a covenant breaker before God that had agreed to place a yoke upon myself that should never have been there in the first place.

I wrote a letter to the pastor explaining that I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement for conscience sake. Here is an expert from his reply to me.

I will share your letter with the deacons and inform the church that you are no longer a member and they should not consider or treat you as if you are a part of the body. I do not think the deacons will pursue questions regarding your decision because you have not shown yourself to be teachable, but contrarian. One voluntarily enters into membership, and we acknowledge that you are free to voluntarily remove yourself from the body for matters of conscience. You need to know that I disagree with your reasoning, at least from what I am able to discern from your letter.

...

Do not think that by simply “coming” to church and remaining aloof from others that you are fulfilling the bibilical “one-anothers” and commands for unity and one mind in the church. The Holy Spirit will simply not lead someone to act contrary to the written Word of God.

...

Since you have stated your intent to continue to attend, you need to know that the relationship between you and the church body will need to change. I will protect the flock over which the Lord has made me an overseer. I will ask you not to engage any visitor in conversation, lest they mistake you for someone who has identified with and is committed to the beliefs and health of the church body. I cannot allow your unorthodox views to become associated with our church. I also intend to carefully watch your interactions with our church family to guard against any divisive, confusing and harmful false teaching or influences.

I took some time to meditate on that which was said and sent another letter to the pastor to address his accusations toward me, to which I never received a reply.

Be careful who you sign what with as covenant agreements with local bodies are designed for the purpose of control. Once you agree to do that which their covenant says, you are obligated to be under their form of government and control even if it is contrary to that which Jesus said church government would be.

In Jesus Name,

Gary

The main question here would be what your doctrinal differences with him were, because, quite frankly, if you did have significant doctrinal disagreements and he believed that you had went down a doctrinal path which was errant then he would need to do what he did.

There were no doctrinal differences specifically addressed in my letter to him or his letter back to me. The letter simply stated that for conscience sake I had to remove myself from the covenant agreement. But my point is still that we need to be careful as Christians not to enter into written contractual agreements as there is a real danger of placing yourself into harms way without knowing what we're doing.

Gary

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you on that point. But if there were clear doctrinal differences that had been delineated outside of the letters and he saw it as a progression he may have been well within his rights. I'm not advocating for or against you or him, but since he's not here to defend his actions then I think it's important that we not jump to conclusions without all of the facts.

If you think it is important not to jump to conclusions then why are you jumping to the conclusion that there had been doctrinal differences delineated outside of the letters? I posted simple excerpts from a letter I received to relate a warning to others who may find themselves in a similar position. What was your motive for responding to it?

Gary

I'm not assuming for a 100 percent fact that there were doctrinal differences. My main motive for responding to it was this sentence....

Be careful who you sign what with as covenant agreements with local bodies are designed for the purpose of control.

With this (to me, anyway) there was the tacit implication that this applied to your situation. And if this applied to your situation then you were making the accusation that the church in question, and furthermore its pastor, had brought you into a covenant with them for the purpose of control. I just believed that, in fairness since this man is not here to defend himself personally and all we have is a snippet of an email from him and nothing further, that it be pointed out that there could have been valid reasons for him doing so, but I didn't say that there definitely were valid reasons for him doing so. This is not a personal attack on you, Gary, I just thought it important that what could very well be a man of God not have intimations leveled at him lightly without any recourse in a forum such as this with us getting only one part of one side of the story. He could very well be entirely in the wrong, I don't know, I don't know much of the situation, but the statement you wrote before and after the email had a slightly accusatory tone in my eyes. I apologize if that was not your intention and was not the case.

Having said that, I will ask, were there indeed doctrinal differences between you and he?

Thanks for the clarity Steve, it is always best to understand motive so that we can get to the main point of any discussion. Now I see where you saw me as making an accusation against the church/pastor in question concerning my remark about covenants being made for the purpose of exercising control within their assemblies. I didn't state it as a particular accusation against this church/pastor so much as I was stating it as my understanding of the only reason a covenant agreement outside of the covenant we have with God through Christ is necessary. There is no need for a covenant between us as we already have one.

Were there indeed doctrinal differences between you and he?

No more than those I fellowship with today in peace and love of the spirit.

Gary

[OldShep]



I haven't been a member of either my previous or current church (over three years), and was curious about views on membership.

Didn't know how to become a member for a while, but now that I know, it is four meetings this month to do it.

Not sure if I can make all four- And currently not bringing in an income to give big offerings.

Thanks-

Do you think you should be a member of your church? That would be a BIG Yes.

Being a Christian is like belonging to a very BIG family, the body of which is made up of many, many, souls all children of God and believers in our Lord Jesus. I know that some may feel that their walk with Christ can be done alone, on top of a mountain, but, as God's child we are not call to be sole individuals worshiping God, but, a member of a body. A body that give us advise, can teach us, and can be there for us when times get bad. The church is the people and I have had many brothers and sisters that have helped build me up, and many that have corrected me in my misunderstanding over the years. It is not good for man to be alone, for a lone sheep among the wolves is an easy target for the hunter of souls.

My advise is to understand that the church is not a museum for the Saints, but a hospital for the sinners.

Then join the church and become a member that works for the church, money need not come from your pocket, work is worth more then money at times, washing ones feet can be done in many ways. May the Grace of God be with you always.

By the way: Glad to meet you brother.

ICL~~~Dennis....