OneWithGod Posted August 30, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 50 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2013 Let see if I can understand what you are trying to say. If you sin, you are following the sinful nature of our flesh, which you call Satan. When we do not sin, we are following Christ. Have you no read what Mark 3:25 says? "And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand." You are correct - a house devided will eventually fall apart. So, this is why a person must give up all their love and control to Christ and not keep in bondage to any sin. Until a person is fully transformed and/or converted, they will have two masters. A person must stop stradling the spiritual fence. Until they do, they are considered of the devil, because they are still not letting go of some of their sinful nature. Tell us, are you sinless, perfect in all your ways? I no longer live, but only Christ in me lives. So why would I sin? All desire to sin has been removed from me. I could make mistakes out of a lack of knowledge of God's will on something, but a born again Christian will never sin against the already known will of God. I think the big question I would like to ask you - can you believe what I am claiming and do you want it for yourself? That, my friend, is a gnostic belief. You are still in the flesh and are subject to the desires of the flesh, even if you don't act upon them to bring about the full sin,lust, anger, envy, and many other evil desires still are in us, There is only one who is perfect and He is not you, even though He lives inside you. I will take that as a big no to whether you would like to be free of all your sin or think God would do it in you. So, since you lack the faith, you will stay in bondage to your sin. Thanks for the discussion anyway. There is always hope in the Lord until they say no to Him. Shakes head at your assumptions. God has taking so much sin out of my life I can't even begin to count them all. I have not always been a follower of Christ, but just the opposite, so your assumptions are just that. You should stop assuming ... you know what that makes you. Allow me to ask again. Are you are sinless today, perfect like Christ, never sinning? From the point of being filled with the Spirit of Truth, I have not willfully/knowing sinned against God - by the power of God that has taken over my life. This has been for about 6-7 years now. This is the power of Christ when a person is fully in Christ and Christ is fully in them. Question. Are you saying because of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth within you, Because of Him you have no sin in you? The fullness of the Holy Spirit (Christ within) is within me, it is Christ (the Holy Spirit) that keeps my sinful nature dead. The Holy Spirit keeps my sinful nature dead, so now the only nature/spirit in me which is alive is Christ's Nature/Spirit. So, all the sin is dead in me and only goodness remains, which is Christ. Because of the fact that only goodness (Christ) is alive in me, then goodness and righteousness reigns and only good fruit is produced. Which means I do not sin any longer, because only Christ lives in me now which cannot sin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 Ok, let me ask this. If we are saved, and Jesus is our Lord and Savior. Then we are in Christ. The bible says a lot about those of us who are in Christ. For instance, we are the righteousness of God in Christ, or in Christ we have life. Because we are in him, in Christ we share in his nature and attributes. By your understanding Is this part correct? Yes. If the above is correct then, If we have not accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior then we are still in Adam. We share in his death, verses life in Christ. Instead of being the Righteousness of God in Christ, We have a sin nature like Adam. By being in Adam and not accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, then we will continue to share in Adam's nature. Just like those of us who are saved Share in Christ's nature. That's also why Jesus said we had to be born again. Be born into his nature. Into him, Jesus Christ who is life and not death. This is a part of Original Sin. according to your understanding of the Word, is this correct? As far as I can tell, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneWithGod Posted August 30, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 50 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 30, 2013 Let see if I can understand what you are trying to say. If you sin, you are following the sinful nature of our flesh, which you call Satan. When we do not sin, we are following Christ. Have you no read what Mark 3:25 says? "And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand." You are correct - a house devided will eventually fall apart. So, this is why a person must give up all their love and control to Christ and not keep in bondage to any sin. Until a person is fully transformed and/or converted, they will have two masters. A person must stop stradling the spiritual fence. Until they do, they are considered of the devil, because they are still not letting go of some of their sinful nature. Tell us, are you sinless, perfect in all your ways? I no longer live, but only Christ in me lives. So why would I sin? All desire to sin has been removed from me. I could make mistakes out of a lack of knowledge of God's will on something, but a born again Christian will never sin against the already known will of God. I think the big question I would like to ask you - can you believe what I am claiming and do you want it for yourself? That, my friend, is a gnostic belief. You are still in the flesh and are subject to the desires of the flesh, even if you don't act upon them to bring about the full sin,lust, anger, envy, and many other evil desires still are in us, There is only one who is perfect and He is not you, even though He lives inside you. I will take that as a big no to whether you would like to be free of all your sin or think God would do it in you. So, since you lack the faith, you will stay in bondage to your sin. Thanks for the discussion anyway. There is always hope in the Lord until they say no to Him. Shakes head at your assumptions. God has taking so much sin out of my life I can't even begin to count them all. I have not always been a follower of Christ, but just the opposite, so your assumptions are just that. You should stop assuming ... you know what that makes you. Allow me to ask again. Are you are sinless today, perfect like Christ, never sinning? From the point of being filled with the Spirit of Truth, I have not willfully/knowing sinned against God - by the power of God that has taken over my life. This has been for about 6-7 years now. This is the power of Christ when a person is fully in Christ and Christ is fully in them. To be without sin is a goal one strives for in this life as they allow the Holy Spirit to change them into the likeness of Jesus. This is not done instantly, as you imply. Nobody in scripture ever claimed to be without sin. There is only one who is said to be without sin, and that is Jesus. Scripture encourages us to live a life of holiness, as He is Holy, yet, while we are still in the flesh, we have to work daily to carry our cross, to be like Him. Consider this, if we were without sin, the Holy Spirit would not be needed. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nobody perfect but one, Jesus. Anyone fully "born of God" does not sin any longer. 1 John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV 1 John 5:18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. NKJV When a person becomes fully born of God, their sinful nature is dead and they sin no more. If someone refuses to believe this, then their goal of becoming sinless is in vain, because they are refusing to believe God's Truth in these matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted August 30, 2013 Share Posted August 30, 2013 When a person becomes fully born of God, their sinful nature is dead and they sin no more. If someone refuses to believe this, then their goal of becoming sinless is in vain, because they are refusing to believe God's Truth in these matters. That is not what the Bible teaches. The NT is full of exhortations regarding the ongoing battle between the sinful flesh nature and the spirit of man that has been born of God. You incorrectly refer to being "fully born of God." There are no degrees with regard to being born of God. You either are, or you are not. There will be no sinlessness realized by us until the sin nature is fully eradicated when we receive our immortal sinless bodies. Until then we are all in the process of sanctification and there is still a struggle. The stuff you are teaching here is not God's truth. God is not in anything you are teaching and we reject your false teaching for what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 30, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Let see if I can understand what you are trying to say. If you sin, you are following the sinful nature of our flesh, which you call Satan. When we do not sin, we are following Christ. Have you no read what Mark 3:25 says? "And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand." You are correct - a house devided will eventually fall apart. So, this is why a person must give up all their love and control to Christ and not keep in bondage to any sin. Until a person is fully transformed and/or converted, they will have two masters. A person must stop stradling the spiritual fence. Until they do, they are considered of the devil, because they are still not letting go of some of their sinful nature. Tell us, are you sinless, perfect in all your ways? I no longer live, but only Christ in me lives. So why would I sin? All desire to sin has been removed from me. I could make mistakes out of a lack of knowledge of God's will on something, but a born again Christian will never sin against the already known will of God. I think the big question I would like to ask you - can you believe what I am claiming and do you want it for yourself? That, my friend, is a gnostic belief. You are still in the flesh and are subject to the desires of the flesh, even if you don't act upon them to bring about the full sin,lust, anger, envy, and many other evil desires still are in us, There is only one who is perfect and He is not you, even though He lives inside you. I will take that as a big no to whether you would like to be free of all your sin or think God would do it in you. So, since you lack the faith, you will stay in bondage to your sin. Thanks for the discussion anyway. There is always hope in the Lord until they say no to Him. Shakes head at your assumptions. God has taking so much sin out of my life I can't even begin to count them all. I have not always been a follower of Christ, but just the opposite, so your assumptions are just that. You should stop assuming ... you know what that makes you. Allow me to ask again. Are you are sinless today, perfect like Christ, never sinning? From the point of being filled with the Spirit of Truth, I have not willfully/knowing sinned against God - by the power of God that has taken over my life. This has been for about 6-7 years now. This is the power of Christ when a person is fully in Christ and Christ is fully in them. To be without sin is a goal one strives for in this life as they allow the Holy Spirit to change them into the likeness of Jesus. This is not done instantly, as you imply. Nobody in scripture ever claimed to be without sin. There is only one who is said to be without sin, and that is Jesus. Scripture encourages us to live a life of holiness, as He is Holy, yet, while we are still in the flesh, we have to work daily to carry our cross, to be like Him. Consider this, if we were without sin, the Holy Spirit would not be needed. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nobody perfect but one, Jesus. Anyone fully "born of God" does not sin any longer. 1 John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV 1 John 5:18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. NKJV When a person becomes fully born of God, their sinful nature is dead and they sin no more. If someone refuses to believe this, then their goal of becoming sinless is in vain, because they are refusing to believe God's Truth in these matters. Funny how you leave out the verse that doesn't agree with you. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 30, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted August 30, 2013 Ok, let me ask this. If we are saved, and Jesus is our Lord and Savior. Then we are in Christ. The bible says a lot about those of us who are in Christ. For instance, we are the righteousness of God in Christ, or in Christ we have life. Because we are in him, in Christ we share in his nature and attributes. By your understanding Is this part correct? Yes. If the above is correct then, If we have not accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior then we are still in Adam. We share in his death, verses life in Christ. Instead of being the Righteousness of God in Christ, We have a sin nature like Adam. By being in Adam and not accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, then we will continue to share in Adam's nature. Just like those of us who are saved Share in Christ's nature. That's also why Jesus said we had to be born again. Be born into his nature. Into him, Jesus Christ who is life and not death. This is a part of Original Sin. according to your understanding of the Word, is this correct? As far as I can tell, yes. Thanks for clarifying and answering my questions. I wanted to make sure I understood your position. I enjoyed the latter part of our conversation. I truly feel as if you attacked me earlier, but Christ says forgive. So as far as I am concerned it is forgiven and you don't even need to apologize for anything. For everything I said that caused you offense I apologize. God Bless Firestormx Joseph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nChrist Posted August 30, 2013 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 438 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 2,947 Content Per Day: 0.54 Reputation: 300 Days Won: 9 Joined: 04/28/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 04/18/1949 Share Posted August 30, 2013 All members - past and current - of the Church which is the Body of Christ are completely united in Salvation issues. After all, this is the only way to become a member of the Body of Christ. Yes, we have disagreements over non-salvation issues in this short life, but all of that will be left behind when we go home to be with the Lord. Many of the issues we argue about in this short life are not worth arguing over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneWithGod Posted August 31, 2013 Group: Members Followers: 0 Topic Count: 2 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 50 Content Per Day: 0.01 Reputation: 4 Days Won: 0 Joined: 08/22/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2013 (edited) Let see if I can understand what you are trying to say. If you sin, you are following the sinful nature of our flesh, which you call Satan. When we do not sin, we are following Christ. Have you no read what Mark 3:25 says? "And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand." You are correct - a house devided will eventually fall apart. So, this is why a person must give up all their love and control to Christ and not keep in bondage to any sin. Until a person is fully transformed and/or converted, they will have two masters. A person must stop stradling the spiritual fence. Until they do, they are considered of the devil, because they are still not letting go of some of their sinful nature. Tell us, are you sinless, perfect in all your ways? I no longer live, but only Christ in me lives. So why would I sin? All desire to sin has been removed from me. I could make mistakes out of a lack of knowledge of God's will on something, but a born again Christian will never sin against the already known will of God. I think the big question I would like to ask you - can you believe what I am claiming and do you want it for yourself? That, my friend, is a gnostic belief. You are still in the flesh and are subject to the desires of the flesh, even if you don't act upon them to bring about the full sin,lust, anger, envy, and many other evil desires still are in us, There is only one who is perfect and He is not you, even though He lives inside you. I will take that as a big no to whether you would like to be free of all your sin or think God would do it in you. So, since you lack the faith, you will stay in bondage to your sin. Thanks for the discussion anyway. There is always hope in the Lord until they say no to Him. Shakes head at your assumptions. God has taking so much sin out of my life I can't even begin to count them all. I have not always been a follower of Christ, but just the opposite, so your assumptions are just that. You should stop assuming ... you know what that makes you. Allow me to ask again. Are you are sinless today, perfect like Christ, never sinning? From the point of being filled with the Spirit of Truth, I have not willfully/knowing sinned against God - by the power of God that has taken over my life. This has been for about 6-7 years now. This is the power of Christ when a person is fully in Christ and Christ is fully in them. To be without sin is a goal one strives for in this life as they allow the Holy Spirit to change them into the likeness of Jesus. This is not done instantly, as you imply. Nobody in scripture ever claimed to be without sin. There is only one who is said to be without sin, and that is Jesus. Scripture encourages us to live a life of holiness, as He is Holy, yet, while we are still in the flesh, we have to work daily to carry our cross, to be like Him. Consider this, if we were without sin, the Holy Spirit would not be needed. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nobody perfect but one, Jesus. Anyone fully "born of God" does not sin any longer. 1 John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV 1 John 5:18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. NKJV When a person becomes fully born of God, their sinful nature is dead and they sin no more. If someone refuses to believe this, then their goal of becoming sinless is in vain, because they are refusing to believe God's Truth in these matters. Funny how you leave out the verse that doesn't agree with you. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Just don't take this verse out of context - read on right after that. 1 John 1:8 is describing a person without Christ. It is indicating that everybody is with sin from birth and that is why everyone needs Jesus Christ power to clense them from all sin - this is what the very next verse is about. Anyone can turn God's Truth into a lie if they take it out of context like you just did. 1 John 1:9-10 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. NIV If a sinner in verse 8 truly does what is in verse 9, they will be clensed of ALL sin and will not sin any longer. If you desire to have the belief to stay a sinner, than that is your choice. God gives everyone this choice - to stay a sinner or have a full faith in Christ and become righteous and holy as God is righteous and holy - and not sin. Edited August 31, 2013 by OneWithGod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
firestormx Posted August 31, 2013 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 6 Topic Count: 62 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,113 Content Per Day: 0.26 Reputation: 442 Days Won: 3 Joined: 06/06/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 10/17/1975 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Let see if I can understand what you are trying to say. If you sin, you are following the sinful nature of our flesh, which you call Satan. When we do not sin, we are following Christ. Have you no read what Mark 3:25 says? "And if a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand." You are correct - a house devided will eventually fall apart. So, this is why a person must give up all their love and control to Christ and not keep in bondage to any sin. Until a person is fully transformed and/or converted, they will have two masters. A person must stop stradling the spiritual fence. Until they do, they are considered of the devil, because they are still not letting go of some of their sinful nature. Tell us, are you sinless, perfect in all your ways? I no longer live, but only Christ in me lives. So why would I sin? All desire to sin has been removed from me. I could make mistakes out of a lack of knowledge of God's will on something, but a born again Christian will never sin against the already known will of God. I think the big question I would like to ask you - can you believe what I am claiming and do you want it for yourself? That, my friend, is a gnostic belief. You are still in the flesh and are subject to the desires of the flesh, even if you don't act upon them to bring about the full sin,lust, anger, envy, and many other evil desires still are in us, There is only one who is perfect and He is not you, even though He lives inside you. I will take that as a big no to whether you would like to be free of all your sin or think God would do it in you. So, since you lack the faith, you will stay in bondage to your sin. Thanks for the discussion anyway. There is always hope in the Lord until they say no to Him. Shakes head at your assumptions. God has taking so much sin out of my life I can't even begin to count them all. I have not always been a follower of Christ, but just the opposite, so your assumptions are just that. You should stop assuming ... you know what that makes you. Allow me to ask again. Are you are sinless today, perfect like Christ, never sinning? From the point of being filled with the Spirit of Truth, I have not willfully/knowing sinned against God - by the power of God that has taken over my life. This has been for about 6-7 years now. This is the power of Christ when a person is fully in Christ and Christ is fully in them. To be without sin is a goal one strives for in this life as they allow the Holy Spirit to change them into the likeness of Jesus. This is not done instantly, as you imply. Nobody in scripture ever claimed to be without sin. There is only one who is said to be without sin, and that is Jesus. Scripture encourages us to live a life of holiness, as He is Holy, yet, while we are still in the flesh, we have to work daily to carry our cross, to be like Him. Consider this, if we were without sin, the Holy Spirit would not be needed. Sorry to burst your bubble, but there is nobody perfect but one, Jesus. Anyone fully "born of God" does not sin any longer. 1 John 3:9 - Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God. NKJV 1 John 5:18 - We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. NKJV When a person becomes fully born of God, their sinful nature is dead and they sin no more. If someone refuses to believe this, then their goal of becoming sinless is in vain, because they are refusing to believe God's Truth in these matters. Funny how you leave out the verse that doesn't agree with you. 1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. Just don't take this verse out of context - read on right after that. 1 John 1:8 is describing a person without Christ. It is indicating that everybody is with sin from birth and that is why everyone needs Jesus Christ power to clense them from all sin - this is what the very next verse is about. Anyone can turn God's Truth into a lie if they take it out of context like you just did. 1 John 1:9-10 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. NIV If a sinner in verse 8 truly does what is in verse 9, they will be clensed of ALL sin and will not sin any longer. If you desire to have the belief to stay a sinner, than that is your choice. God gives everyone this choice - to stay a sinner or have a full faith in Christ and become righteous and holy as God is righteous and holy - and not sin. By saying you have no sin in you, you are saying you are equal to Christ. You are saying you are in every way equal to the Lord of Lord and Kings of Kings. There is only one that is sinless and that is not you. Either you have sin in you or you think you are God? Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted August 31, 2013 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 599 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,260 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,988 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted August 31, 2013 212 posts.... maybe if some outside person analyzed this thread we might find why there is no unity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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