Why no unity?

[Guest Butero]

 

 

 

 

Why is there no unity in the body of Christ?

 

 

If there is no unity, can it really be called the body of Christ?  

 

 

To make the next four years shorter, because it took me four years of dedicated research, I eventually found the Church that Christ founded at Pentacost.  It does still exist in this world, it still teaches, believes and practices the same faith as the Apostles did in ;the beginning.

 

 

 

You said a lot of things I agree with, and have observed myself, but this is what I want to focus on.  You claim that you found a church that operates the same as the church did at Pentecost.  Why leave us in suspense?  What church is this, and are they all over the country?  I have been looking for a church like that for over 30 years and haven't come across it.  I have found some that weren't as far off as others, but none that are like they were when the church was founded.

 

I did not want to just give you a name without you doing the research.  By giving just a name will not explain the magnitude of information that must be assimulated in order to rationally make a decision of faith. 

However, having said that, it is the Orthodox Church, the Church that began at Pentacost, known as the Way at first, then catholic.  In the 5th century the so called Orientals left over  the definition of the natures of Christ. However, for all practical purposes all four groups have agreed to rejoin the Orthodox Church.  After a long  difficult relationship with the See of Rome, mostly over the Supremacy of the Pope, Rome separated from the others and established the Roman Catholic Church. The eastern Patriarchates, the four remaining, became the Orthodox Church.

 

Your research will show that it still exists and has spread over the world, but more importantly, none of the doctrines, none of the original beliefs have been changed, added to since the beginning. several have been further clarified such as the Trinity, and the Incarnation. There has only been two Liturgies since the beginning with the existing two, Basel's and Chrysostom coming from the fourth century and were adaptations of the original one of St James of Jerusalem. 

However, don't take my word for it, you should study for your own.  You will have a much easier time than  I had because I did not have the internet.  Just about everything is on the interent for your perusal.

 

Thanks.  I will look into it. 

[Thaddaeus]

 

 

 

 

Why is there no unity in the body of Christ?

 

There are disputes on every single point of doctrine there is. Very few agree on a lot of things. Even fewer agree on most things. I've never come across 2 believers that agreed on everything. The bible states in the book of Acts that the Apostles were of 1 accord. The first believers were in unity. With each other and Christ.

 

Why aren't we?

 

People often say it's ok, because we are never going to agree on everything. But, the bible says Christ is not divided. Where is the unity? Is it we understand the scripture differently? Well, if we are all being led to the truth by the same Holy Spirit, then shouldn't it be the same truth we arrive at?  Is it because we are at different places in our walk with Christ? But even then, the same core truth should be there, should be the same. Just built upon. Line upon line. An unfolding living revelation coming from the living Word.

 

How can every believer be hearing and being led by the same Holy Spirit and all of us come to different answers to the exact same questions? Why is it seen as such a bad thing to say " I don't know " or " I was wrong ". If Christ is love, then shouldn't unity start there to? Isn't forgiveness apart of love?

 

Where is the Unity?

 

May the living Lord Jesus Bless you all

 

Firestormx

Joseph

1. One very big reason is that we each have unique needs the Lord ministers the Word of God to us to meet those unique needs.   The Lord can minister a verse or passage of Scripture to you to meet a need in your life and then minister the same passage to me to meet a completely different need in my life.  Our difference in perspective is based on the different needs we had that were met in that passage.  Therefore, we come away with unique and different ways of approaching that passage.

 

2. There are cultural differences as well.   If you live in Southern California, you are going to have a different take on Scripture than someone living in rural, East Tennessee.

 

3. Denominations are, by and large divided more over traditions than essential doctrine.  Many of the theolgical differences are over secondary issues, not primary issues.

 

4. Let me ask you this.  If being "unified" means that we all have the same doctrinal views, wouldn't that stymie personal study of the Word of God?  I mean, think of it like this.  Whose views win out if we all have to believe the same things in order for there to be "unity?"   It requires a willingness on the part of everyone to forego the ability to think and study for themselves and simply believe what they are told they must believe in order preserve unity.   So whose doctrinal views become the views of the collective?  Who gets to decide what everyone must agree upon (whether they like it or not)?

 

We have to be careful that we are not confusing "unity" with comformity of thought and manipulation/control.  I always have a problem when people start defining unity in doctrinal terms because it means that we must leave our own convictions at the door and simply follow what we are told to believe.

 

I have numbered your response and will take them in order.

 

1. If you don't understand that there are different levels of revelation on a biblical subject, and there being different levels of revelation has nothing to do with the heart of the core beliefs or unity then there is nothing for us to discuss.

 

2. Christ is 1. Not 500 but . I don't care about cultural differences. It should all be nothing in Christ. At least in regards to the Word of God. One Spirit and one baptism.

 

3.  I will quote the word on this one. By your traditions you have made the Word of God of no effect.

 

4. first, reread my first response. then I say this. True unity will never come as long as people insist on doing things out of there own heads. It comes from being one in Christ. Just as Christ and the Father are one, so we should be one in Christ. That was Christ's prayer in the book of John. So let me ask you this. Would Jesus pray and ask for something that was not possible for us? Were there any division's between Jesus and the Father? No of course not. We are suppose to be one, unified just like them. You want an example of proper unity since you accuse me of " thought and manipulation/control ". Then look to Jesus and the book of John. I don't remember telling you to believe what your told. you have falsely accused me as far as I am concerned. You have also lied about me in your post. Claiming I said and implied things I have not, which makes them lies. Jesus does not tell lies on people. So it is clear what spirit is leading you as far as I am concerned. I will not respond to you again.

 

 

I am not attacking you, nor did I accuse you of  thought control or manipulation.   What I said is that we should not confuse "unity" with having the same exact doctrines.  If unity is defined as everyone believing the exact same thing, who has the authority to determine what that doctrine will be?   Are you willing to sacrifice things you believe about God for the purpose of unity?   How exactly would we come to an exact agreement on every point doctrine in Scripture? 

 

"Having the same mind," doesn't mean that we all must believe the exact same things.  When we are called on by Paul to have the same mind, he is referring to attitude or disposition.   We are to be unified in purpose and we are to be unified in our common faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  That does not mean that we must agree on every point of doctrine.

 

Unity is not the absence of diversity.  Diversity is not division or schism.  Most of the division and schisms that Paul was addressing was occur within specific congregations.  Paul doesn't complain that the Corinthians are different from the Philippians.  He isn't complaining that the Thessalonicans have a different position on certain matters than the Ephesisans.   Churches of various denominations can experience unity when they join forces for the common good of our society, especially in humanitarian activities.

 

I will now respond to your numbered responses:

 

1.  I was not referring to different levels of revelation.  I was saying that God meets our needs through the Scriptures and that the same Scripture can be applied different ways in order to meet those needs.   Often times, we confuse interpretation with application and mistakenlly think that the meaning of a given passage only applies to how it was used in our own lives.   The Bible speaks of the manifold (many-sided) wisdom  of God.  Many religious debates tend to center around mistaking application for interpretation.

 

2.  Cultural differences are a part of human existence and cannot be summarily brushed aside. God did not circumvent Hebraic culture when He inspired Scripture; rather, He used it as a vehicle to communicate His truth.  Culture plays a big part in how we view the Bible.   A poor person in the third world will have a different take on the Scriptures than a more affluent person living in suburban America.   You wanted to know why it appears there is no unity and cultural differences definitely speak to that.

 

3.  Jesus was speaking to rabbinic traditions that the Rabbis had established to justify their disobedience to the law.  Jesus was not against tradition itself.  He didn't condemn the existence of traditions.  He condemned the way they had been misused hypocrtically to become a self-righteous, ostentatious display meant to glorify self instead of God.   When I say that denominations differ on traditions, I am referring things like sprinkling vs. water immersion, speaking in tounges vs. cessationism, the old hymns vs. modern praise songs.   These don't nullify the word of God.  They are simply different ways of expressing faithfulness to God.

 

4.  Being one in Christ doesn't mean that we have the same exact doctrinal position on all things.  If that were what it means, then how do we go about deciding who has to sacrifice what they believe and practice for the sake of "unity?"   Whose doctrines are wrong and are just coming "out of their head?"   Who is endowed with the kind of spiritual wisdom needed to determine what beliefs are to be accepted and which ones are to be discarded?   Has the Holy Spirit donned anyone with the spiritual mantle to be the supreme and final arbiter on all matters of faith and practice for all Christians for all time??  

 

The Bible never proposes the notion that everyone must agree on all points of doctrine, faith and practice.  In general, we actually do have a great deal of unity around the essentials of the faith, to be truthful.   Where we differ doesn't make us disunified.   Disunity doesn't stem from differences over doctrinal particulars.  It stems from strife, pride, bitterness, etc.  It is those things that keep us from being, "of one mind."

 

What I said is that we should not confuse "unity" with having the same exact doctrines.  If unity is defined as everyone believing the exact same thing, who has the authority to determine what that doctrine will be?   Are you willing to sacrifice things you believe about God for the purpose of unity?   How exactly would we come to an exact agreement on every point doctrine in Scripture?

Unity in Christ means exactly, preciely that everyone, without exception believes in the gospel of Christ.  When the Holy Spirit gave the Gospel to the Apostles, He did not give one version to Mark, another to James etc.  They all were given the very same thing.  It is that very same Gospel that has gone forth unchanged by man for 2000 years.

It is Christ and the Holy Spirit that determined what was  contained in the Gospel.  Man has never had authority over that Gospel, man does not determine what it means. 

I think some of your are misusing the word, unity.  YOu should be using the word "union".  YOu are together in some form of union, though not in unity. 

All man can do is accept the Gospel or reject it.  It is not man's perogative to pick and choose what one will believe, even though it may be developed from scripture.  After 500 years it is quite obvious that man has developed thousands of variations to suit his own desires.  

 

Some are saying that there are some core beliefs but having been a Protestant, there is absolutely on unity, or even union to any extent on any core issue let alone several.  The best one can have is some unity within a single congregation and to a degree in a denomination.  Even the last two denominations I was a part of have been wracked by all the worldly influences.  Social mores lead the church instead of the other way around.

Within the Protestant melieu with the sola scriptura principle in force, you have many variations on the Trinity, the creation of man, the purpose of man, the fall of man, thus the salvation from the fall, the salvation of individual man, how that salvation is transmited to man, in the Incarnation. There is every variation regarding sacraments, even having them, but changing the meaning and purpose of them.

 

"Having the same mind," doesn't mean that we all must believe the exact same things.  When we are called on by Paul to have the same mind, he is referring to attitude or disposition.   We are to be unified in purpose and we are to be unified in our common faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  That does not mean that we must agree on every point of doctrine.

a huge contradiction here. Having one mind, the Mind of Christ is believing, practicing the Christian faith as the Holy Spirit gave it to us. It is precisely having all the very same doctrines.  The Doctrines define who Christ is and how we are being saved.  YOu change any one of them you by definition have a different Christ, as well as a different way to be saved. Just look at the Protestant landscape and you will see hundreds of changes, all changing who Christ is and how salvation is meted out.

Unity is not the absence of diversity.  Diversity is not division or schism.

Diversity has nothing to do with unity.

 

Churches of various denominations can experience unity when they join forces for the common good of our society, especially in humanitarian activities.

not unity but union. Union can have diversity, different norms, procedures, cultural differences. However, unity of  the Gospel is the exact same things. Same doctrines to the dotting of the I and T's.

 

Being one in Christ doesn't mean that we have the same exact doctrinal position on all things.  If that were what it means, then how do we go about deciding who has to sacrifice what they believe and practice for the sake of "unity?"  

Yes, it does. YOu don't decide, man has never decided. The only thing you are able to do is accept His Gospel as He gave it, as He has preservered it for all time from the beginning.

Christianity has never been an individual thing, some democratic process, or exerting ones own authority over a text that has been the witness to the Truth, it is NOT the Truth.

 

The Bible never proposes the notion that everyone must agree on all points of doctrine, faith and practice.

actually it does. Does scripture give more than one doctrine of the Trinity? Of the Incarnation?  Of the fall?  of salvation from the fall?  The purpose of man? How one is to be saved?  Is there more than one Christ? More than one Church?  

Only man has developed hundreds of variations on a text.

[firestormx]

 

 

 

 

 

Why is there no unity in the body of Christ?

 

There are disputes on every single point of doctrine there is. Very few agree on a lot of things. Even fewer agree on most things. I've never come across 2 believers that agreed on everything. The bible states in the book of Acts that the Apostles were of 1 accord. The first believers were in unity. With each other and Christ.

 

Why aren't we?

 

People often say it's ok, because we are never going to agree on everything. But, the bible says Christ is not divided. Where is the unity? Is it we understand the scripture differently? Well, if we are all being led to the truth by the same Holy Spirit, then shouldn't it be the same truth we arrive at?  Is it because we are at different places in our walk with Christ? But even then, the same core truth should be there, should be the same. Just built upon. Line upon line. An unfolding living revelation coming from the living Word.

 

How can every believer be hearing and being led by the same Holy Spirit and all of us come to different answers to the exact same questions? Why is it seen as such a bad thing to say " I don't know " or " I was wrong ". If Christ is love, then shouldn't unity start there to? Isn't forgiveness apart of love?

 

Where is the Unity?

 

May the living Lord Jesus Bless you all

 

Firestormx

Joseph

1. One very big reason is that we each have unique needs the Lord ministers the Word of God to us to meet those unique needs.   The Lord can minister a verse or passage of Scripture to you to meet a need in your life and then minister the same passage to me to meet a completely different need in my life.  Our difference in perspective is based on the different needs we had that were met in that passage.  Therefore, we come away with unique and different ways of approaching that passage.

 

2. There are cultural differences as well.   If you live in Southern California, you are going to have a different take on Scripture than someone living in rural, East Tennessee.

 

3. Denominations are, by and large divided more over traditions than essential doctrine.  Many of the theolgical differences are over secondary issues, not primary issues.

 

4. Let me ask you this.  If being "unified" means that we all have the same doctrinal views, wouldn't that stymie personal study of the Word of God?  I mean, think of it like this.  Whose views win out if we all have to believe the same things in order for there to be "unity?"   It requires a willingness on the part of everyone to forego the ability to think and study for themselves and simply believe what they are told they must believe in order preserve unity.   So whose doctrinal views become the views of the collective?  Who gets to decide what everyone must agree upon (whether they like it or not)?

 

We have to be careful that we are not confusing "unity" with comformity of thought and manipulation/control.  I always have a problem when people start defining unity in doctrinal terms because it means that we must leave our own convictions at the door and simply follow what we are told to believe.

 

I have numbered your response and will take them in order.

 

1. If you don't understand that there are different levels of revelation on a biblical subject, and there being different levels of revelation has nothing to do with the heart of the core beliefs or unity then there is nothing for us to discuss.

 

2. Christ is 1. Not 500 but . I don't care about cultural differences. It should all be nothing in Christ. At least in regards to the Word of God. One Spirit and one baptism.

 

3.  I will quote the word on this one. By your traditions you have made the Word of God of no effect.

 

4. first, reread my first response. then I say this. True unity will never come as long as people insist on doing things out of there own heads. It comes from being one in Christ. Just as Christ and the Father are one, so we should be one in Christ. That was Christ's prayer in the book of John. So let me ask you this. Would Jesus pray and ask for something that was not possible for us? Were there any division's between Jesus and the Father? No of course not. We are suppose to be one, unified just like them. You want an example of proper unity since you accuse me of " thought and manipulation/control ". Then look to Jesus and the book of John. I don't remember telling you to believe what your told. you have falsely accused me as far as I am concerned. You have also lied about me in your post. Claiming I said and implied things I have not, which makes them lies. Jesus does not tell lies on people. So it is clear what spirit is leading you as far as I am concerned. I will not respond to you again.

 

 

I am not attacking you, nor did I accuse you of  thought control or manipulation.   What I said is that we should not confuse "unity" with having the same exact doctrines.  If unity is defined as everyone believing the exact same thing, who has the authority to determine what that doctrine will be?   Are you willing to sacrifice things you believe about God for the purpose of unity?   How exactly would we come to an exact agreement on every point doctrine in Scripture? 

 

"Having the same mind," doesn't mean that we all must believe the exact same things.  When we are called on by Paul to have the same mind, he is referring to attitude or disposition.   We are to be unified in purpose and we are to be unified in our common faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  That does not mean that we must agree on every point of doctrine.

 

Unity is not the absence of diversity.  Diversity is not division or schism.  Most of the division and schisms that Paul was addressing was occur within specific congregations.  Paul doesn't complain that the Corinthians are different from the Philippians.  He isn't complaining that the Thessalonicans have a different position on certain matters than the Ephesisans.   Churches of various denominations can experience unity when they join forces for the common good of our society, especially in humanitarian activities.

 

I will now respond to your numbered responses:

 

1.  I was not referring to different levels of revelation.  I was saying that God meets our needs through the Scriptures and that the same Scripture can be applied different ways in order to meet those needs.   Often times, we confuse interpretation with application and mistakenlly think that the meaning of a given passage only applies to how it was used in our own lives.   The Bible speaks of the manifold (many-sided) wisdom  of God.  Many religious debates tend to center around mistaking application for interpretation.

 

2.  Cultural differences are a part of human existence and cannot be summarily brushed aside. God did not circumvent Hebraic culture when He inspired Scripture; rather, He used it as a vehicle to communicate His truth.  Culture plays a big part in how we view the Bible.   A poor person in the third world will have a different take on the Scriptures than a more affluent person living in suburban America.   You wanted to know why it appears there is no unity and cultural differences definitely speak to that.

 

3.  Jesus was speaking to rabbinic traditions that the Rabbis had established to justify their disobedience to the law.  Jesus was not against tradition itself.  He didn't condemn the existence of traditions.  He condemned the way they had been misused hypocrtically to become a self-righteous, ostentatious display meant to glorify self instead of God.   When I say that denominations differ on traditions, I am referring things like sprinkling vs. water immersion, speaking in tounges vs. cessationism, the old hymns vs. modern praise songs.   These don't nullify the word of God.  They are simply different ways of expressing faithfulness to God.

 

4.  Being one in Christ doesn't mean that we have the same exact doctrinal position on all things.  If that were what it means, then how do we go about deciding who has to sacrifice what they believe and practice for the sake of "unity?"   Whose doctrines are wrong and are just coming "out of their head?"   Who is endowed with the kind of spiritual wisdom needed to determine what beliefs are to be accepted and which ones are to be discarded?   Has the Holy Spirit donned anyone with the spiritual mantle to be the supreme and final arbiter on all matters of faith and practice for all Christians for all time??  

 

The Bible never proposes the notion that everyone must agree on all points of doctrine, faith and practice.  In general, we actually do have a great deal of unity around the essentials of the faith, to be truthful.   Where we differ doesn't make us disunified.   Disunity doesn't stem from differences over doctrinal particulars.  It stems from strife, pride, bitterness, etc.  It is those things that keep us from being, "of one mind."

 

 

 

What I said is that we should not confuse "unity" with having the same exact doctrines.  If unity is defined as everyone believing the exact same thing, who has the authority to determine what that doctrine will be?   Are you willing to sacrifice things you believe about God for the purpose of unity?   How exactly would we come to an exact agreement on every point doctrine in Scripture?

Unity in Christ means exactly, preciely that everyone, without exception believes in the gospel of Christ.  When the Holy Spirit gave the Gospel to the Apostles, He did not give one version to Mark, another to James etc.  They all were given the very same thing.  It is that very same Gospel that has gone forth unchanged by man for 2000 years.

It is Christ and the Holy Spirit that determined what was  contained in the Gospel.  Man has never had authority over that Gospel, man does not determine what it means. 

I think some of your are misusing the word, unity.  YOu should be using the word "union".  YOu are together in some form of union, though not in unity. 

All man can do is accept the Gospel or reject it.  It is not man's perogative to pick and choose what one will believe, even though it may be developed from scripture.  After 500 years it is quite obvious that man has developed thousands of variations to suit his own desires.  

 

Some are saying that there are some core beliefs but having been a Protestant, there is absolutely on unity, or even union to any extent on any core issue let alone several.  The best one can have is some unity within a single congregation and to a degree in a denomination.  Even the last two denominations I was a part of have been wracked by all the worldly influences.  Social mores lead the church instead of the other way around.

Within the Protestant melieu with the sola scriptura principle in force, you have many variations on the Trinity, the creation of man, the purpose of man, the fall of man, thus the salvation from the fall, the salvation of individual man, how that salvation is transmited to man, in the Incarnation. There is every variation regarding sacraments, even having them, but changing the meaning and purpose of them.

 

 

 

"Having the same mind," doesn't mean that we all must believe the exact same things.  When we are called on by Paul to have the same mind, he is referring to attitude or disposition.   We are to be unified in purpose and we are to be unified in our common faith in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior.  That does not mean that we must agree on every point of doctrine.

a huge contradiction here. Having one mind, the Mind of Christ is believing, practicing the Christian faith as the Holy Spirit gave it to us. It is precisely having all the very same doctrines.  The Doctrines define who Christ is and how we are being saved.  YOu change any one of them you by definition have a different Christ, as well as a different way to be saved. Just look at the Protestant landscape and you will see hundreds of changes, all changing who Christ is and how salvation is meted out.

 

 

Unity is not the absence of diversity.  Diversity is not division or schism.

Diversity has nothing to do with unity.

 

 

 

Churches of various denominations can experience unity when they join forces for the common good of our society, especially in humanitarian activities.

not unity but union. Union can have diversity, different norms, procedures, cultural differences. However, unity of  the Gospel is the exact same things. Same doctrines to the dotting of the I and T's.

 

 

 

Being one in Christ doesn't mean that we have the same exact doctrinal position on all things.  If that were what it means, then how do we go about deciding who has to sacrifice what they believe and practice for the sake of "unity?"  

Yes, it does. YOu don't decide, man has never decided. The only thing you are able to do is accept His Gospel as He gave it, as He has preservered it for all time from the beginning.

Christianity has never been an individual thing, some democratic process, or exerting ones own authority over a text that has been the witness to the Truth, it is NOT the Truth.

 

 

 

The Bible never proposes the notion that everyone must agree on all points of doctrine, faith and practice.

actually it does. Does scripture give more than one doctrine of the Trinity? Of the Incarnation?  Of the fall?  of salvation from the fall?  The purpose of man? How one is to be saved?  Is there more than one Christ? More than one Church?  

Only man has developed hundreds of variations on a text.

 

Thanks for the post

[Micheal Westin]

The majority is not being led by the Holy Spirit but a self spirit.

Unity in Christ;

One mind, One body, One Spirit. Worshipping HIM

If you can get a congregations attention on this, the congregation will witness a move in the congregated body by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

I agree with you, Jesus plainly tells the believers that it was the Holy Spirit He would be sending that would lead the church, to me this is the most overlooked biblical truth, since so much of who the Holy Spirit is and what He does is not accepted in many churches which leaves them led by men and not by the Spirit

[other one]

 

The majority is not being led by the Holy Spirit but a self spirit.

Unity in Christ;

One mind, One body, One Spirit. Worshipping HIM

If you can get a congregations attention on this, the congregation will witness a move in the congregated body by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

I agree with you, Jesus plainly tells the believers that it was the Holy Spirit He would be sending that would lead the church, to me this is the most overlooked biblical truth, since so much of who the Holy Spirit is and what He does is not accepted in many churches which leaves them led by men and not by the Spirit

 

 

 

I certainly would agree and since I am a born again spirit filled tongue speaking Christian, if you disagree with me, you must not have the Spirit.... 

[Thaddaeus]

 

The majority is not being led by the Holy Spirit but a self spirit.

Unity in Christ;

One mind, One body, One Spirit. Worshipping HIM

If you can get a congregations attention on this, the congregation will witness a move in the congregated body by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

I agree with you, Jesus plainly tells the believers that it was the Holy Spirit He would be sending that would lead the church, to me this is the most overlooked biblical truth, since so much of who the Holy Spirit is and what He does is not accepted in many churches which leaves them led by men and not by the Spirit

 

However, scripture never says that Christ is the Head of many churches, or that the Holy Spirit is leading many Churches.  It is ONE Christ, ONE Body, one Faith.  Christ is the Head of that Body which is enlived by the Holy Spirit in which He dwells.  He has been doing that for 2000 years now as He promised.

[Guest Butero]

 

 

The majority is not being led by the Holy Spirit but a self spirit.

Unity in Christ;

One mind, One body, One Spirit. Worshipping HIM

If you can get a congregations attention on this, the congregation will witness a move in the congregated body by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

I agree with you, Jesus plainly tells the believers that it was the Holy Spirit He would be sending that would lead the church, to me this is the most overlooked biblical truth, since so much of who the Holy Spirit is and what He does is not accepted in many churches which leaves them led by men and not by the Spirit

 

However, scripture never says that Christ is the Head of many churches, or that the Holy Spirit is leading many Churches.  It is ONE Christ, ONE Body, one Faith.  Christ is the Head of that Body which is enlived by the Holy Spirit in which He dwells.  He has been doing that for 2000 years now as He promised.

 

First, I want to thank you for answering my question about what is the original church?  I had never looked into the Orthodox Church before, so I spent some time last night looking into it.  They do claim to be the original church, but they are not the only group that makes that claim.  The Catholic Church claims to trace it's roots back to the original church, as do some Baptists and Anabaptists.  There is no way to prove that claim one way or the other, without a time machine, and none exists to my knowledge? 

 

Even if the church can trace it's origin back as far as they claim, they do have practices that don't seem to be found in scripture?  I know they claim that some of their beliefs are based on oral tradition, and I suppose that would be their explanation, but we are talking about some things that are clearly not seen in any of the New Testament Churches in scripture, like having all those statues, and kissing the feet on them.  I am not going to accuse them of idol worship or anything like that, as they make it plain they use those statues to remind them of the saints, but I don't see how this is a continuation of anything Paul or anyone else teaches?  There is that matter of calling the Priest "Father," which Jesus tells us not to do.  There are just some things that I don't see as being traced back to the original NT church. 

 

Having said that, I am not looking to attack your church or make accusations towards them.  I appreciate you sharing your faith, and I wasn't looking to find out your beliefs to jump on them.  I would like nothing better than to find the perfect NT church, and I was hoping you perhaps had found it?  I am still left with the conclusion that there is no absolutely perfect church.  The church is made up of imperfect people, that don't have perfect understanding of everything, and until Jesus comes back, we won't have complete unity.  God bless, and thanks again for responding to my question. 

 

As to their being one church, I believe that is true, but the members of that church are scattered among many denominations, independent churches, and some who are not part of any organized church.

[Guest man]

As to their being one church, I believe that is true, but the members of that church are scattered among many denominations, independent churches, and some who are not part of any organized church.

 

 

I believe that within that one church is where you'll find unity and the true Body of Christ. 

[rebbell]

 

The majority is not being led by the Holy Spirit but a self spirit.

Unity in Christ;

One mind, One body, One Spirit. Worshipping HIM

If you can get a congregations attention on this, the congregation will witness a move in the congregated body by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

I agree with you, Jesus plainly tells the believers that it was the Holy Spirit He would be sending that would lead the church, to me this is the most overlooked biblical truth, since so much of who the Holy Spirit is and what He does is not accepted in many churches which leaves them led by men and not by the Spirit

 

The majority is not being led by the Holy Spirit but a self spirit.

Unity in Christ;

One mind, One body, One Spirit. Worshipping HIM

If you can get a congregations attention on this, the congregation will witness a move in the congregated body by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

I agree with you, Jesus plainly tells the believers that it was the Holy Spirit He would be sending that would lead the church, to me this is the most overlooked biblical truth, since so much of who the Holy Spirit is and what He does is not accepted in many churches which leaves them led by men and not by the Spirit

 

 

I certainly would agree and since I am a born again spirit filled tongue speaking Christian, if you disagree with me, you must not have the Spirit.... 

 

The majority is not being led by the Holy Spirit but a self spirit.

Unity in Christ;

One mind, One body, One Spirit. Worshipping HIM

If you can get a congregations attention on this, the congregation will witness a move in the congregated body by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

I agree with you, Jesus plainly tells the believers that it was the Holy Spirit He would be sending that would lead the church, to me this is the most overlooked biblical truth, since so much of who the Holy Spirit is and what He does is not accepted in many churches which leaves them led by men and not by the Spirit

However, scripture never says that Christ is the Head of many churches, or that the Holy Spirit is leading many Churches.  It is ONE Christ, ONE Body, one Faith.  Christ is the Head of that Body which is enlived by the Holy Spirit in which He dwells.  He has been doing that for 2000 years now as He promised.

 

The majority is not being led by the Holy Spirit but a self spirit.

Unity in Christ;

One mind, One body, One Spirit. Worshipping HIM

If you can get a congregations attention on this, the congregation will witness a move in the congregated body by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless

I agree with you, Jesus plainly tells the believers that it was the Holy Spirit He would be sending that would lead the church, to me this is the most overlooked biblical truth, since so much of who the Holy Spirit is and what He does is not accepted in many churches which leaves them led by men and not by the Spirit

However, scripture never says that Christ is the Head of many churches, or that the Holy Spirit is leading many Churches.  It is ONE Christ, ONE Body, one Faith.  Christ is the Head of that Body which is enlived by the Holy Spirit in which He dwells.

   

As to their being one church, I believe that is true, but the members of that church are scattered among many denominations, independent churches, and some who are not part of any organized church.

 

 

As to their being one church, I believe that is true, but the members of that church are scattered among many denominations, independent churches, and some who are not part of any organized church.

 

 

I believe that one church is the true Body of Christ.

[rebbell]

I have learned I don't understand multiquote yet.