Where did satan come from

[Fez]

 

 

 

If Satan did not come from God's act of creating, this thought logically leads to a) Satan is some kind of creator himself, self-existent B) there is another source beside God the Father and the Word and The Holy Spirit.

 

But how could that be? Following this logic would totally dismantle God's sovereign position as the Almighty. Are different existing entities or manifestations of (personal) awareness popping out ex nihilo, out of nothing? How does that relate to God as the first cause and the ultimate source of the whole existence.

 

This logic does not lead to any cohesive conclusion, since there apparently is a tension between Satan and God which is reality in this world. If Satan originates from another source of existence, is it somewhere behinds God's back, so to say? I still cannot follow that logic. Jesus said every hair in your head is counted so probably God is pretty well aware of what is going on, since He is above space and time.

 

 

Good morning Diatheosis,

 

what you're presenting here is an argumentation entirely based on what you think, no scripture involved with the exception of mentioning God as the Almighty. And you're right in that God is the Almighty. Logic is a good thing btw., we need it do evaluate signs on earth, but do you really think that what goes on in heaven can be exposed just by the use of some smart (or perhaps not so smart) equations? 

Thomas

 

But that is precisely what you are doing in reverse Thomas.

 

(2) No. I don't say that. I just say this: it cannot be proven using scripture that God has been allknowing at any point in time. (If people want to provi it now, I hope they keep short..)

 

 

You are the one presenting this hypothesis and it up to you to convince us.

 

Prove to us that God has never been all knowing at any point in time?

 

Please take as much time as you need.

[Guest ninhao]

Psa 147:5  Great is our Lord, and of great power: his understanding is infinite.

 

 

Isa 46:9-10  Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,  (10)  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

 

1Jn 3:20  For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.
 

[Edwin]

Thank you Fez for your post.

You say,

"Why God created him, I have no idea."

Perhaps what follows will be of help.

Why was the devil created ?

What follows will I trust answer the question, and at the same time praise God from whom all blessings flow.

In respect of the devil. I was once asked,

"why was he created?"

My reply was,

I will now try to answer this as follows.

Ask your self the question, "What is it that we all of us want more than anything else?"

Answer:

To be loved for ourselves, for what we are, not for any material advantage that might be gained, is it any surprise that the Lord our God also wants to be loved for Himself, for His nature, His integrity, His personality, His dedication, and so on, but most of all His Love, and not only for the, "material advantages", He provides.

That is why it is written.

Mar 12:28 Then one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, perceiving[fn4] that He had answered them well, asked Him, "Which is the first commandment of all?"

Mar 12:29 Jesus answered him, "The first of all the commandments is: 'Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Mar 12:30 'And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul,

with all your mind, and with all your strength.'[fn5] This is the first commandment.[fn6]

Mar 12:31 "And the second, like it, is this: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'[fn7] There is no other commandment greater than these."

Our Lord Jesus is here quoting Deuteronomy Chapter 6 verses 5, and 6.

Deu 6:4 "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one!

Deu 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

Now how can we fallen creatures love Him as He wants to be loved, unless we have a demonstration, a sign, well Jesus said at verse 39 below,

Mat 12:38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You."

Mat 12:39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.

Mat 12:40 "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

The sign to which He referrers is of course His death by crucifixion.

When we know that our Creator God, deliberately caused Himself to be born into the human race, knowing full well in advance just what we would do to Him, and did not use one iota of His limitless power to extricate Himself from the excruciating agony of this horrible death, how can we not love Him for the person that He is.

But this sacrificial death would be meaningless, if there was no need for it, and for this reason there had to be an alternative to God, (The Devil), and we had to become sinners in order to be saved.

Perhaps this explanation will help to answer the question, "Why was the Devil created?".

The Lord bless you, and keep you safe.

Edwin.

[MrsShoup]

It is said that he is a fallen an angel. He was and angel in heaven but was kicked out of heaven.

 

Revelation 12:9>And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

http://www.bible.org.nz/articles/the-devil-and-his-angels.html

 

The link above explains as well.

[other one]

I try to decide which is worse to believe.......   that He didn't know beforehand what Lucifer would do, or that He made Lucifer anyway....

 

While I'm a nobody to be judging God, I can't help being bothered with it.  Not to be condemning, but to understand

 

Maybe if we understood exactly what we will be after the resurrection we'll understand.

[RustyAngeL]

 

In another thread, since closed due to other circumstances, the issue of satan's origins came up, with some members a bit uncertain about this topic. I thought it worth discussiing. 

 

Where did satan come from? 

  Why ignite this topic again? Yes I believe that we all know he was a creation from God...

 

Right, God created him, but he was created to be one of the most  beautiful angels there was.  Satan however had other ideas. He wanted to be like the most high God.  So God kicked him out of Heaven along with 2/3 of the other angels that wanted to go with him.  So yes God created him.  I don't know why but God always has a plan.

[missmuffet]

Satan was created by God.Satan was one of the most beautiful angels in heaven.Satan had alot of pride and rebelled taking with him several of his friends.They were kicked out of heaven.

[MorningGlory]

 

 

I just say this: it cannot be proven using scripture that God has been allknowing at any point in time. (If people want to provi it now, I hope they keep short..)

 

added numbers to your post

Job 37:16

Do you know how the clouds are balanced,

Those wondrous works of Him who is perfect in knowledge?

Psalm 147:5

Great is our Lord, and mighty in power;

His understanding is infinite.

1 Samuel 2:3

Talk no more so very proudly;

Let no arrogance come from your mouth,

For the Lord is the God of knowledge;

And by Him actions are weighed.

Isaiah 55:9

For as the heavens are higher than the earth,

So are My ways higher than your ways,

And My thoughts than your thoughts.

1 John 3:19-20

And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and knows all things.

Perhaps you missed these in your reading and research?

 

Good day OneLight,

thanks for sharing your opinion. It's interesting.

I'm not going to comment on that or answer your question, however. I was being insulted once in this thread so it has come to a close for me and I want to opt out of it.

Have a good day,

Thomas

 

No offense, Thomas, but this is your usual modus operandi as soon as people challenge your ideas.  No one insulted you that I can see either.  Why not just explain your position or post Scripture that supports it?  Running away doesn't make a discussion, my friend. 

[Guest]

Chicago maybe?

[thomas t]

 

 

 

Good day OneLight,

 

thanks for sharing your opinion. It's interesting.

I'm not going to comment on that or answer your question, however. I was being insulted once in this thread so it has come to a close for me and I want to opt out of it.

Have a good day,

Thomas

 

No offense, Thomas, but this is your usual modus operandi as soon as people challenge your ideas.  

 

Good morning MG,

 

no, please don't tell false things about my modus operandi, thanks.

In general, I don't have anything against challanging my ideas. However, it is important for me that people stay on the subject level. 

 

 

 

I made it clear in my post # 26, where the insult was, in my opinion. Perhaps you could read it (again?).

My disussion partner wrote this:

 

[....]It's time to eat of the dish you've prepared for others.  

 

"A fool hath no delight in understanding, But only that his heart may reveal itself."

[...]

 

 

 

Why not just explain your position or post Scripture that supports it?  

 

The reason for this is that the same person could insult me again.