alphaparticle Posted February 17, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 17, 2014 No no, unless there is repentance first. God gives us grace through faith to save us from sin, not so that we could continue in sin. It is an ongoing work, and culminates in spiritual perfection. Do you believe that there is no need for repentance? A need in what sense? For salvation? Is this a precondition for salvation or a response to salvation? rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted February 17, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Romans 10: says we must believe with the Heart that God hath raised Him from the dead and confess with our mouth Him, Lord.the problem with Lordship salvation is one gets the cart in front of the horse. and preach that there is something we can do to get saved or there is things we have to do to keep ourselves saved ...... otherwise known as Galatianism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shiloh357 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Lordship salvation is NOT the belief that you have to stop sinning as a pre-condition for salvation. Repentance from sin is part of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. When we accept Jesus, we are accepting Him as Savior AND Lord. The Bible says that God is calling on all people to repent. Repentance is our response to the Gospel. The first thing we should do is repent of our sin, turn from our sin and turn to Jesus. Lordship salvation is about there being a changed life when we are saved. If a person claims to be a Christian but doesn't bear the fruit of repentance, if there isn't a change, and a sincere desire to serve the Lord, such a person needs to reexamine the authenticity of their profession of faith. No one has to be perfect and submitted to God in every area of their life in order to get saved, but there should be a daily desire to continue surrendering to Jesus as Lord. If one rejects Jesus as Lord, there is a strong likelihood, they never got saved. Jesus Saviorship and Lordship are a "package deal" so to speak. You can't receive Him as Savior and reject Him as Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted February 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 185 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,224 Content Per Day: 3.33 Reputation: 16,647 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2014 First we believe that He is. There is a God Who hears us and is concerned with out lives. Soon after the Holy Spirit comes to convict of sin, of righteousness and of judgement. He points out sin in our lives. We respond by abhoring our sin, turning away from it in our hearts, and turning toward God asking Him to forgive us and help us. Repentance, as said, is turning away from sin and turning toward God, but all of this is a gift from God and is not a work. When Peter went to the house of Cornelius and preached to them, they responded by being filled with the Holy Spirit. Peter went back to the Jews and told all that took place saying that God had GRANTED THEM REPENTANCE. A grant is a gift just as faith is a gift. No works are involved, just a changed mind and a changed heart. It is being converted. Acts 3:19 Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. 2 Corinthians 7:10 For godly sorrow produces repentance leading to salvation. 2 Tim. 2:25 In humility correcting those who are in opposition, if GOD PERHAPS WILL GRANT THEM REPENTANCE so that they man know the truth. Yes we are saved by grace through faith, it is a gift from God not of works lest any many should boast. However,, repentance is also a part of salvation, and it also is a gift and is not a work. I used to attend a church that did not teach repentance. It just told people to ask Jesus to come into your hearts and be baptized. There was so much sin in that church, I don't know where to start. A man was having an affair with his sister in law which eventually broke up both marriages. Gossip was condoned. So many lies. It sounded like the Corinthian church. Church money was mishandled. It was so sad. One day I realized that I had never heard repentance preached in that church! It is no more. It died. So just as faith is a gift from God leading to salvation, so also repentance is a gift granted by God leading to salvation. However, making restitution, ceasing from deliberate sin, confessing that Jesus is Savior and Lord, and Baptism are works that do not earn salvation but are produced by our salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted February 18, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2014 Repentance in response to salvation makes sense to me. I don't think it makes sense to have it be a precondition to salvation, repent and then maybe you can be saved, sort of thing. That is where I am unclear as to how lordship salvation works with this. I read a couple things about it last night and it seems like a very fine line to walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other one Posted February 18, 2014 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 29 Topic Count: 596 Topics Per Day: 0.08 Content Count: 56,043 Content Per Day: 7.56 Reputation: 27,788 Days Won: 271 Joined: 12/29/2003 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2014 If you do not let Jesus be the Lord of your life, and follow his commands, he will not save you. You can not do anything to save yourself, but if you do not do the things he has given us to do, he will reject you. He has told that that if we practice iniquity he never knew us and would not be saved. It is a dangerous thing to tell someone that all they have to do to be saved is believe and not go into what that "believe" entails. Knowing that Jesus is the Son of God and came here to save us and professing that will not get you into heaven. Only those who "do" the will of his Father is accepted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphaparticle Posted February 18, 2014 Group: Diamond Member Followers: 1 Topic Count: 48 Topics Per Day: 0.01 Content Count: 1,363 Content Per Day: 0.35 Reputation: 403 Days Won: 5 Joined: 08/01/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted February 18, 2014 what I find a bit odd is the notion that someone could sincerely believe, and have this sort of faith, and God would not convict that person. What about the power of the Spirit over the lives of believers? I don't think anyone who is a sincere believer would be allowed to merely sit still? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Zion* Posted February 18, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 154 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 3,245 Content Per Day: 0.78 Reputation: 2,397 Days Won: 9 Joined: 12/09/2012 Status: Offline Birthday: 05/11/1984 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Repentance in response to salvation makes sense to me. I don't think it makes sense to have it be a precondition to salvation, repent and then maybe you can be saved, sort of thing. That is where I am unclear as to how lordship salvation works with this. I read a couple things about it last night and it seems like a very fine line to walk. Mark 1:14-15 14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. Also I believe scripture says to repent and be saved, not maybe what I find a bit odd is the notion that someone could sincerely believe, and have this sort of faith, and God would not convict that person. What about the power of the Spirit over the lives of believers? I don't think anyone who is a sincere believer would be allowed to merely sit still? Please explain this, I have not grasped your meaning here Blessings! Edited February 19, 2014 by *Zion* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nebula Posted February 18, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 10 Topic Count: 5,823 Topics Per Day: 0.76 Content Count: 45,870 Content Per Day: 5.96 Reputation: 1,897 Days Won: 83 Joined: 03/22/2003 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/19/1970 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I believe the conflict here is whether the change comes from within or from without. Some theology seems to come across as change the fruit to change the heart. But that's backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSchool2 Posted February 18, 2014 Group: Royal Member Followers: 7 Topic Count: 701 Topics Per Day: 0.13 Content Count: 7,511 Content Per Day: 1.35 Reputation: 1,759 Days Won: 0 Joined: 01/16/2009 Status: Offline Birthday: 02/18/1955 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If you do not let Jesus be the Lord of your life, and follow his commands, he will not save you. You can not do anything to save yourself, but if you do not do the things he has given us to do, he will reject you. He has told that that if we practice iniquity he never knew us and would not be saved. It is a dangerous thing to tell someone that all they have to do to be saved is believe and not go into what that "believe" entails. Knowing that Jesus is the Son of God and came here to save us and professing that will not get you into heaven. Only those who "do" the will of his Father is accepted. It's not just knowing -- which is Gnosticism, the most ancient Christian heresy -- but believing. Acts 16:30-31: He then brought them out and asked, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household" (Amplified Bible). Where "believe" means to "give yourself up to Him" (Joseph Thayer, A Greek-English Lexicon) and remove yourself from your own keeping and entrust yourself to His keeping (Ken Wuest, Word Studies). And adding anything to that is still Galatianism: saved by grace, kept by works! BTW, Galatians is the only letter where Paul never thanked his congregation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts