Does God know what He will be doing a trillion years from now?

[Guest Butero]

Trust First.  When I say God says things in a way we will understand, as in the case with the story of Ninevah, I mean just that.  God was not going to destroy Ninevah, because he knew what was going to happen, but he related the story to us as if there was a possibility he would destroy them.  It is like this.  I tell someone that I am going to bulldoze down their apartment complex because it isn't up to code, but I have seen into the future and know they will fix the place up and I will never end up doing that.  I meant what I said, but I knew I would never have to do it.  God knew the people of Ninevah would repent.  He meant what he said if they didn't repent, but he knew the outcome. 

 

God is not good and evil at the same time, but he is the creator of evil.  Anything that exists is the creation of God.  Satan doesn't have the power to create.  God created Lucifer, and there is no way I believe God didn't know Lucifer would one day rebel against him.  That was the plan all along.  That doesn't make God both good and evil.  It only means he created an adversary to show a contrast between good and evil.  We see the battle played out in this world all the time. 

 

As for Judas Iscariot, there is no question he was created to be the betrayer, and there is no question the outcome was known.  God even told us in scripture how Judas would die.  Had the events not gone down exactly as it was stated, it would have made God out a liar.  I don't care if you believe that would make God a tyrant.  Take that up with him.  All this stuff about this action would go against the nature of God and that action would go against the nature of God is based on flawed reasoning based on feelings and emotions and not facts.  If you read the Bible, you will see what God is capable of doing, and it is not all loving.  Look at how he sent a plague on Israel after David ordered a census be taken.  Look at what he did to Lot's wife.  Look at how he ordered the destruction of every man, woman and child in wars he ordered.  To say "God is Love" is a bumper sticker version of God, yet many people hold to it.  That is just one of many characteristics of God. 

 

Whether you like it or not, God does know the beginning from the end.  We see this in scripture, when Jesus told Peter that before the cock crowed twice, he would deny him thrice.  This was not something that might happen with 99.9 percent certainty.  God knew what Peter was going to do, as he created him, and God is all knowing.  He knows who will be saved and lost before he creates us.  It is like how the author of a screen play has the power to decide who will be good and who will be bad.  The outcome is determined, and cannot be changed.  When I am in the middle of watching a movie, I don't know the ending, but the one who wrote the story does, and it will never change.  For example, in the western classic, "Man Who Shot Liberty Valance," Liberty, was created a bad guy, and the character played by Jimmy Stewart was a good guy.  Their fate is sealed.  The writer decided that Liberty would be shot and the Jimmy Stewart character would wind up becoming a U.S Senator.  That is what they were created for, and the character played by John Wayne was created to save Jimmy Stewart.  If I haven't seen the film, or am half way through, I don't know what will happen, but the author does know.  No matter how many times I watch the movie, the ending will be the same.  It is set in stone. 

 

God created everything and everyone knowing how it will turn out.  Time doesn't exist with him, so he knows what everyone will do.  He even tells us how the world will end.  This cannot be changed, period.  You can believe anything you want, and you can claim God doesn't know all things if that is what you want to believe, but I don't agree.  Does it make God a tyrant because he creates one vessel of honor and another of dishonor?  If that is how you want to view him for doing just that, be my guest.  Remember that out of your own mouth, you stated that if I am right, either one of us could be created to be lost.  The jury is out.  Perhaps a light bulb will go off in your head, and you will realize what I am saying is true, and that you can't serve a God like that.  I have no way of knowing what the final outcome will be for any of us.  I hope that won't happen, but it could.  The one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that God knows our outcome, and knew it before he created us in the womb.  God knows everything. 

[nebula]

Yet:

Revelation 13:8 - And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

How could Jesus be "slain from the foundation of the world?"

OK, I hope I can explain clearly to you what I believe so that there is no question about it.

I believe that at some point (Notice I didn’t use the word time) in God’s existence He was alone (No angels, no creation, no humans, nothing)

At some point God had a wonderful thought, He decided of His own free will to bring into existence angelic beings so that He might shower his glory upon them and cultivate a beautiful relationship with them. Obviously this can only be done by providing them with free will also.

God also knew that free will has its risks. Any one of the angels could decide to refuse His love and benevolence. Would they rebel or not?

You see, what I believe (and I know alarms bells are going to go off in your head about now) God DID NOT KNOW the decision of the angels because they literally DID NOT exist. To not know something that does not exist does not diminish God in anyway or diminish His omniscience.

Matter fact, I believe that there was a point, or even an eternal point, in God’s existence that He wasn’t even thinking of creating angels, and if in His own mind he hasn’t even thought about angels how could He know the future decisions of angels. They don’t even exist in His own thoughts, His own mind.

This also goes for man. The difference here is we were created a little lower than the angels. (not having the opportunity to view God directly in all His splendor) If the angels rebel it is instant hell, but for man there’s a second chance.

God knowing full well that man’s choice COULD go sour, Jesus in the counsel of the Godhead decided even “before the foundation of the world” to die for our redemption knowing that He may not have to if man doesn’t. This was decided before man ever existed and was able to formulate his own thoughts.

I’m not trying to convert you to this line of thinking, I’m just trying to get you to consider this line of thought, mull it over.

I do not understand how this response answers the question.

 

In any event, my belief is that trying to assume what was going on with God before our Creation story runs you into the risk of making incorrect assumptions. The Scriptures are silent on this.

But what I see also is that your belief by-passes the verses I posted - how God knew Jeremiah before he was formed, and how our days can be written in God's book before the days came to be.

How did Jesus know Peter would deny Him 3 times before the cock crowed?

For that matter, how does God know how the world will end?

It seems strange to us to conceive that God would act as if He didn't know what decisions we would make while in fact He already know, but as I read Scripture, it makes more sense that He operates this way rather than conceptualizing that He has no clue what tomorrow brings, or what I will do, or what the fate of Yugoslavia will be, or the like.

 

~~~~~~

 

Does He change His course of action? At times He has (as with Moses pleading for God to spare the Israelites).

This is more what I mean. I believe God can use a million different courses of action and every one would lead to His designed end.

OK, but that doesn't depend on whether or not God knows the future.

[OneLight]

I posted this in another thread, but it seem appropriate to post it here also.

 

 

 

We also have Romans 8:28-30 that speaks to predestination.
 

And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

The steps, or explanations is:

• foreknew 
• predestined
• conformed
• called
• justified
• glorified

It is interesting to see Paul point out that God first foreknew before He predestined.  I do not believe God just picked and chose people, I believe He looked down through time to see who would choose His salvation; therefore, He foreknew before He predestined.

[Openly Curious]

I hope I don't rattle to many cages with this one.

Hi TruthFirst,  I have now read through the entire thread "Does God know what He will be doing a trillion years from now?"   What I do not know and am left confused over after reading through the thread and maybe you can help me out on this.  My questions are 1.) What specific doctrine are you trying to convince me of.  2.) By using and debating this question "Does God know what He will be doing a trillion years from now?"  How does my personal belief whether I believe the question is true or false validate whatever your doctrine is to be true?    Because I am not clear on what your doctrinal standpoint specifically is about at this point.  So if you could clarify for me what doctine you debating it would help me in my understanding?  Thank you for your help.  

[enoob57]

God is not good and evil at the same time, but he is the creator of evil.  Anything that exists is the creation of God.  Satan doesn't have the power to create.  God created Lucifer, and there is no way I believe God didn't know Lucifer would one day rebel against him.  That was the plan all along.  That doesn't make God both good and evil.  It only means he created an adversary to show a contrast between good and evil.  We see the battle played out in this world all the time.

This is error...

We are to keep our place as created of God! To assess God in intent is foolishness as God Says we cannot!

Isa 55:7-9

7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts:

and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and

to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not

your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as

the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your

ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

KJV

We are to study to show ourselves approved unto God!

Therefore this verse must be assessed with these verses

Isa 45:7-8

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:

I the Lord do all these things. 8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and

let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them

bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the

Lord have created it.

Ezek 28:14-15

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:

thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down

in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from

the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because

there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:

for he is a liar, and the father of it.

KJV

As these verses set forth the acceptable parameters of thought in this regard you will notice

that all this 'IS' God direct witness to man...

The evil spoken of in the first verse must be brought into unity of the second verse in which

God says that God created him perfect in 'ALL' his ways >till< then the last verse places the

responsibility solely upon satan for fullness of what evil 'IS' = lie... putting this all together

We see this witness of God Himself in this matter

1 John 1:5-7

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you,

that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have

fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one

with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

KJV

As God has said I create darkness a creative aspect from God's Person yet there is no darkness in

Him [at all] relieves us to understand two different understanding of darkness one of created format

that God designed and one that represents another meaning! One in which God defines as lie/sin... which

perverts the truth and that which is not perfect cannot be reconciled from God or of God!

The Holiness of God cannot be polluted with lie as lie is with begin and eternal end in a place called

hell... Love, Steven

[TruthFirst]

Trust First.  When I say God says things in a way we will understand, as in the case with the story of Ninevah, I mean just that.  God was not going to destroy Ninevah, because he knew what was going to happen, but he related the story to us as if there was a possibility he would destroy them.  It is like this.  I tell someone that I am going to bulldoze down their apartment complex because it isn't up to code, but I have seen into the future and know they will fix the place up and I will never end up doing that.  I meant what I said, but I knew I would never have to do it.  God knew the people of Ninevah would repent.  He meant what he said if they didn't repent, but he knew the outcome.

 

I don't know if you realize how foolish that sounds. Those are called empty threats. It may even fall in the category of deception. And we know God would never deceive someone (granted I don't know about you because you believe God creates evil and probably does evil as long as it suits His purpose, the end justifies the means.) (HOWEVER --> "Shall we sin so that grace may abound? NO! ** In God's economy producing evil will never justify the good end.)

 

Yet if God asks me to pray for someone whom He knows is going to hell. Humm! That's pretty deceiving. And what if I begin praying in the Spirit for that person, is the Spirit saying "Well He's praying for buddy next door, but We well know that he's going to hell, so We might as well ignore his prayer."

 

God is not good and evil at the same time, but he is the creator of evil.  Anything that exists is the creation of God.  Satan doesn't have the power to create.  God created Lucifer, and there is no way I believe God didn't know Lucifer would one day rebel against him.  That was the plan all along.  That doesn't make God both good and evil.  It only means he created an adversary to show a contrast between good and evil.  We see the battle played out in this world all the time.

 

As enoob57 said above "This is error" ---- I didn't know you were privy to "the plan all along"  NO, you're right God is not both good and evil, He is ONLY good and can do nothing that is evil. Here's is something that is impossible to God: He cannot create, produce or do evil.  I am actually amazed that the forum doesn't light up to correct you on this. Good on you enoob57.

 

As for Judas Iscariot, there is no question he was created to be the betrayer, and there is no question the outcome was known.  God even told us in scripture how Judas would die.  Had the events not gone down exactly as it was stated, it would have made God out a liar.  I don't care if you believe that would make God a tyrant.  Take that up with him.  All this stuff about this action would go against the nature of God and that action would go against the nature of God is based on flawed reasoning based on feelings and emotions and not facts.  If you read the Bible, you will see what God is capable of doing, and it is not all loving.  Look at how he sent a plague on Israel after David ordered a census be taken.  Look at what he did to Lot's wife.  Look at how he ordered the destruction of every man, woman and child in wars he ordered.  To say "God is Love" is a bumper sticker version of God, yet many people hold to it.  That is just one of many characteristics of God.

 

Judas was created to be loved and cherished by God and to be given the same opportunity as you and me for a beautiful relationship with God. It is His choices along the way that made him a candidate for the betrayer. God didn't create him with the love for money, he had a love designed for God. If Judas chose along the way to cheat, lie, swindle then that was his free choices. And once he made those choices God could have hardened his heart in order to bring about the end betrayal. But certainly not before Judas made his own choices. He will have only himself to blame.

 

Whether you like it or not, God does know the beginning from the end.  We see this in scripture, when Jesus told Peter that before the cock crowed twice, he would deny him thrice.  This was not something that might happen with 99.9 percent certainty.  God knew what Peter was going to do, as he created him, and God is all knowing.  He knows who will be saved and lost before he creates us.  It is like how the author of a screen play has the power to decide who will be good and who will be bad.  The outcome is determined, and cannot be changed.  When I am in the middle of watching a movie, I don't know the ending, but the one who wrote the story does, and it will never change.  For example, in the western classic, "Man Who Shot Liberty Valance," Liberty, was created a bad guy, and the character played by Jimmy Stewart was a good guy.  Their fate is sealed.  The writer decided that Liberty would be shot and the Jimmy Stewart character would wind up becoming a U.S Senator.  That is what they were created for, and the character played by John Wayne was created to save Jimmy Stewart.  If I haven't seen the film, or am half way through, I don't know what will happen, but the author does know.  No matter how many times I watch the movie, the ending will be the same.  It is set in stone.

 

Jesus did not know Peter would deny Him before the cock crowed. Jesus divested Himself of His Glory, Godly attributes (which include omniscience), and received all knowledge and power from the Holy Spirit.

 

God created everything and everyone knowing how it will turn out.  Time doesn't exist with him, so he knows what everyone will do.  He even tells us how the world will end.  This cannot be changed, period.  You can believe anything you want, and you can claim God doesn't know all things if that is what you want to believe, but I don't agree.  Does it make God a tyrant because he creates one vessel of honor and another of dishonor?  If that is how you want to view him for doing just that, be my guest.  Remember that out of your own mouth, you stated that if I am right, either one of us could be created to be lost.  The jury is out.  Perhaps a light bulb will go off in your head, and you will realize what I am saying is true, and that you can't serve a God like that.  I have no way of knowing what the final outcome will be for any of us.  I hope that won't happen, but it could.  The one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that God knows our outcome, and knew it before he created us in the womb.  God knows everything.

 

I NEVER said God doesn't know all things. I said God knows all things that are knowable or that can be known. Jer. (32:35) Not only did God not know that Israel would commit such a sin, but also, after everything He did for them (the deliverance, the Red Sea, Jericho, Promised Land, etc. etc.) the thought never crossed His mind that they would become so depraved as to throw their own children in the fires of Molech.

[Guest Butero]

 

God is not good and evil at the same time, but he is the creator of evil.  Anything that exists is the creation of God.  Satan doesn't have the power to create.  God created Lucifer, and there is no way I believe God didn't know Lucifer would one day rebel against him.  That was the plan all along.  That doesn't make God both good and evil.  It only means he created an adversary to show a contrast between good and evil.  We see the battle played out in this world all the time.

This is error...

We are to keep our place as created of God! To assess God in intent is foolishness as God Says we cannot!

Isa 55:7-9

7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts:

and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and

to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. 8 For my thoughts are not

your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as

the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your

ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

KJV

We are to study to show ourselves approved unto God!

Therefore this verse must be assessed with these verses

Isa 45:7-8

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil:

I the Lord do all these things. 8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and

let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them

bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I the

Lord have created it.

Ezek 28:14-15

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so:

thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down

in the midst of the stones of fire. 15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from

the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

John 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because

there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own:

for he is a liar, and the father of it.

KJV

As these verses set forth the acceptable parameters of thought in this regard you will notice

that all this 'IS' God direct witness to man...

The evil spoken of in the first verse must be brought into unity of the second verse in which

God says that God created him perfect in 'ALL' his ways >till< then the last verse places the

responsibility solely upon satan for fullness of what evil 'IS' = lie... putting this all together

We see this witness of God Himself in this matter

1 John 1:5-7

5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you,

that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have

fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one

with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

KJV

As God has said I create darkness a creative aspect from God's Person yet there is no darkness in

Him [at all] relieves us to understand two different understanding of darkness one of created format

that God designed and one that represents another meaning! One in which God defines as lie/sin... which

perverts the truth and that which is not perfect cannot be reconciled from God or of God!

The Holiness of God cannot be polluted with lie as lie is with begin and eternal end in a place called

hell... Love, Steven

 

I believe everything I said is true, and I don't believe your scriptures show me to be wrong.  I am fine with you disagreeing.  You have a right to your opinion as does everyone. 

[TruthFirst]

 

I do not understand how this response answers the question.

 

Well the question centers on the knowledge of God or as some say His foreknowledge. Like what does He know about the future? Is He in control of the future? Or is He trapped to do what the future is going to be? But I realize what you’re saying, it’s a pretty loaded question and it can take you into many different avenues, such as free will and predestination.

 

In any event, my belief is that trying to assume what was going on with God before our Creation story runs you into the risk of making incorrect assumptions. The Scriptures are silent on this.

 

I do agree somewhat with what you’re saying, but I think it is safe to assume that prior to creation that God was God and we do know He is a Triune Spirit, a Trinity of Three Divine Persons.

I use this to show how God does have a Past. Because as you know, God is now, in the present, a triune Spirit of which one of the three has a Glorified body, and this for eternity

But what I see also is that your belief by-passes the verses I posted - how God knew Jeremiah before he was formed, and how our days can be written in God's book before the days came to be.

 

It boils down to this God can predict, prophesy, foretell anything He wants because He is more than capable to bring it to pass. It is a simple thing for God to have a crowd jeering in a courtyard and have three people recognize Peter as a Galilean who was with Jesus, to have Peter fear for his life and renounce the Lord and finally pinch the cock to crow more than once.

How did Jesus know Peter would deny Him 3 times before the cock crowed?

For that matter, how does God know how the world will end?

It seems strange to us to conceive that God would act as if He didn't know what decisions we would make while in fact He already know, but as I read Scripture, it makes more sense that He operates this way rather than conceptualizing that He has no clue what tomorrow brings, or what I will do, or what the fate of Yugoslavia will be, or the like.

 

We as humans are capable of designing a computer that calculates the thousands of moves on a chess board. Do you think God can do the same with 7 billion humans knowing every fibre of their being, every hair on their head, the thoughts and intents that are hidden in the heart but certainly not to Him, the moment of their death? God can even suggest a certain courses of action, He can harden the decisions of the heart and He can influence outcomes as long as He doesn’t affect the eternal status of an individual. This would be wrong. Pharaoh’s heart was hardened after he had made His decision, NOT before, so that in the end Pharaoh will be the one responsible for his disobedience Not God.

~~~~~~

 

Does He change His course of action? At times He has (as with Moses pleading for God to spare the Israelites).

This is more what I mean. I believe God can use a million different courses of action and every one would lead to His designed end.

OK, but that doesn't depend on whether or not God knows the future.

 

 

Well I think so, if God does all things because He knows His own future and sees everything ahead of time. He loses His autonomy or Sovereignty. If He chooses to act sovereignly (I know it’s not a word but bear with me) and change something, it’s not really a change because He knew He would do it in the first place. Where is God’s free will when everything is laid out for Him, in other words he sees it all ahead of time  Himself. If God destroys the earth by fire or by ice what’s the difference? None, the purpose is to get rid of the old to bring in the new. So if God sees ahead of Himself and it’s by fire He can’t change and decide to do by ice. He is trapped in His own foreknowledge.

You say; no god can change and destroy by ice if He wants. Not if He knows everything He is going to do, He just knew He’d change His mind and therefore there is no change and we are back to square one.

This line of thought also devoids God of true meaningful emotion. When God knows eons of years before the time when a sinner is going to commits suicide. How can He be grieved, how can He be hurt at the loss of a precious soul that He wanted to love and bring into eternity?

 

Maybe I should stop here.

[Guest Butero]

 

Trust First.  When I say God says things in a way we will understand, as in the case with the story of Ninevah, I mean just that.  God was not going to destroy Ninevah, because he knew what was going to happen, but he related the story to us as if there was a possibility he would destroy them.  It is like this.  I tell someone that I am going to bulldoze down their apartment complex because it isn't up to code, but I have seen into the future and know they will fix the place up and I will never end up doing that.  I meant what I said, but I knew I would never have to do it.  God knew the people of Ninevah would repent.  He meant what he said if they didn't repent, but he knew the outcome. 

 

I don't know if you realize how foolish that sounds. Those are called empty threats. It may even fall in the category of deception. And we know God would never deceive someone (granted I don't know about you because you believe God creates evil and probably does evil as long as it suits His purpose, the end justifies the means.) (HOWEVER --> "Shall we sin so that grace may abound? NO! ** In God's economy producing evil will never justify the good end.)

 

Yet if God asks me to pray for someone whom He knows is going to hell. Humm! That's pretty deceiving. And what if I begin praying in the Spirit for that person, is the Spirit saying "Well He's praying for buddy next door, but We well know that he's going to hell, so We might as well ignore his prayer."

 

God is not good and evil at the same time, but he is the creator of evil.  Anything that exists is the creation of God.  Satan doesn't have the power to create.  God created Lucifer, and there is no way I believe God didn't know Lucifer would one day rebel against him.  That was the plan all along.  That doesn't make God both good and evil.  It only means he created an adversary to show a contrast between good and evil.  We see the battle played out in this world all the time. 

 

As enoob57 said above "This is error" ---- I didn't know you were privy to "the plan all along"  NO, you're right God is not both good and evil, He is ONLY good and can do nothing that is evil. Here's is something that is impossible to God: He cannot create, produce or do evil.  I am actually amazed that the forum doesn't light up to correct you on this. Good on you enoob57.

 

As for Judas Iscariot, there is no question he was created to be the betrayer, and there is no question the outcome was known.  God even told us in scripture how Judas would die.  Had the events not gone down exactly as it was stated, it would have made God out a liar.  I don't care if you believe that would make God a tyrant.  Take that up with him.  All this stuff about this action would go against the nature of God and that action would go against the nature of God is based on flawed reasoning based on feelings and emotions and not facts.  If you read the Bible, you will see what God is capable of doing, and it is not all loving.  Look at how he sent a plague on Israel after David ordered a census be taken.  Look at what he did to Lot's wife.  Look at how he ordered the destruction of every man, woman and child in wars he ordered.  To say "God is Love" is a bumper sticker version of God, yet many people hold to it.  That is just one of many characteristics of God. 

 

Judas was created to be loved and cherished by God and to be given the same opportunity as you and me for a beautiful relationship with God. It is His choices along the way that made him a candidate for the betrayer. God didn't create him with the love for money, he had a love designed for God. If Judas chose along the way to cheat, lie, swindle then that was his free choices. And once he made those choices God could have hardened his heart in order to bring about the end betrayal. But certainly not before Judas made his own choices. He will have only himself to blame.

 

Whether you like it or not, God does know the beginning from the end.  We see this in scripture, when Jesus told Peter that before the cock crowed twice, he would deny him thrice.  This was not something that might happen with 99.9 percent certainty.  God knew what Peter was going to do, as he created him, and God is all knowing.  He knows who will be saved and lost before he creates us.  It is like how the author of a screen play has the power to decide who will be good and who will be bad.  The outcome is determined, and cannot be changed.  When I am in the middle of watching a movie, I don't know the ending, but the one who wrote the story does, and it will never change.  For example, in the western classic, "Man Who Shot Liberty Valance," Liberty, was created a bad guy, and the character played by Jimmy Stewart was a good guy.  Their fate is sealed.  The writer decided that Liberty would be shot and the Jimmy Stewart character would wind up becoming a U.S Senator.  That is what they were created for, and the character played by John Wayne was created to save Jimmy Stewart.  If I haven't seen the film, or am half way through, I don't know what will happen, but the author does know.  No matter how many times I watch the movie, the ending will be the same.  It is set in stone. 

 

Jesus did not know Peter would deny Him before the cock crowed. Jesus divested Himself of His Glory, Godly attributes (which include omniscience), and received all knowledge and power from the Holy Spirit.

 

God created everything and everyone knowing how it will turn out.  Time doesn't exist with him, so he knows what everyone will do.  He even tells us how the world will end.  This cannot be changed, period.  You can believe anything you want, and you can claim God doesn't know all things if that is what you want to believe, but I don't agree.  Does it make God a tyrant because he creates one vessel of honor and another of dishonor?  If that is how you want to view him for doing just that, be my guest.  Remember that out of your own mouth, you stated that if I am right, either one of us could be created to be lost.  The jury is out.  Perhaps a light bulb will go off in your head, and you will realize what I am saying is true, and that you can't serve a God like that.  I have no way of knowing what the final outcome will be for any of us.  I hope that won't happen, but it could.  The one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that God knows our outcome, and knew it before he created us in the womb.  God knows everything. 

 

I NEVER said God doesn't know all things. I said God knows all things that are knowable or that can be known. Jer. (32:35) Not only did God not know that Israel would commit such a sin, but also, after everything He did for them (the deliverance, the Red Sea, Jericho, Promised Land, etc. etc.) the thought never crossed His mind that they would become so depraved as to throw their own children in the fires of Molech.

 

All things are knowable to God.  They may not be knowable to man, but they are knowable to God.  I don't care if Enoob says I am in error, or if you agree with me.  I rarely ever agree with Enoob, and I don't agree with anyone that thinks God is limited in his knowledge.  I don't care if you think what I said sounds foolish.  I stand by every word.  I have spent a lot of time in scripture, and I didn't start out believing in pre-destination in this way, but after about my 13 or 14th time through, I noticed a pattern that couldn't be denied.  God knew everything that was going to happen before it occurred.  Even in the case of Peter.  Of course Jesus knew Peter would deny him thrice.  He told him so, and Peter went forward and did it.  Judas had no choice but to betray the Lord as that was what he was created to do.  I know enough about the Word to know there is no way you can prove me wrong from scripture, and I can easily give you more examples than I have to this point.  I can show you fulfilled prophesies from the OT that prove God is all knowing.  I can give you scripture that states God creates some vessels of honor and some of dishonor.  To believe what you say is to deny that God is really the potter and really has control over the clay. 

[TruthFirst]

 

I hope I don't rattle to many cages with this one.

Hi TruthFirst,  I have now read through the entire thread "Does God know what He will be doing a trillion years from now?"   What I do not know and am left confused over after reading through the thread and maybe you can help me out on this.  My questions are 1.) What specific doctrine are you trying to convince me of.  2.) By using and debating this question "Does God know what He will be doing a trillion years from now?"  How does my personal belief whether I believe the question is true or false validate whatever your doctrine is to be true?    Because I am not clear on what your doctrinal standpoint specifically is about at this point.  So if you could clarify for me what doctine you debating it would help me in my understanding?  Thank you for your help.  

 

 

I don't believe that these beliefs of mine have to be encapsulated in some kind of doctrine.

Read my post to Nebula directly above I think that might clarify where I'm coming from.

I'm not trying to defend a doctrine. I'm trying to get people maybe to rethink there position on certain things because some of the stuff I've read contradicts itself in the same sentence and in other places the statements are outright false.

Anyway thanks for your interest.

Edited March 22, 2014 by TruthFirst