the two witnesses?

[Guest Jesse]

 

The two witnesses will be real men. Revelation does not make any sense otherwise. Why will the World be shocked when they see them resurrected? Because you don't normally see people rise from the dead that's why? 

 

Surely the world will be shocked to see the whole church resurrected? If the two witnesses represent two whole churches, and these churches are resurrected at the first resurrection, this will shock the world. I believe these two witnesses are two churches, because they are described as two candlesticks, and in Revelation 1:20 candlesticks represent churches.

 

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 

These two witnesses are also described as olive trees, which traditionally represent Judah and Israel.. the two olive trees of the OT. So these two witnesses most likely represent the Jerusalem based churches of Israel and Judah.  During the tribulation Israel is protected for 3.5 years, this is the reason the beast is unable to attack them for 1260 days because they are protected for that period. As soon as the period of Jewish protection is complete, the beast attacks the Jewish church in Jerusalem. But soon after that the second coming and resurrection occurs, to the shock of the world.

 

The two witnesses can not be the two churches. ??

Because the two witnsses are taken up first. And then the 7th trumpet will sound which is the resurrection of the saints. rev11.

You need to review that doctrine. Dont have to, if you dont want to.

 

jesse

[ARGOSY]

 

 

The two witnesses will be real men. Revelation does not make any sense otherwise. Why will the World be shocked when they see them resurrected? Because you don't normally see people rise from the dead that's why? 

 

Surely the world will be shocked to see the whole church resurrected? If the two witnesses represent two whole churches, and these churches are resurrected at the first resurrection, this will shock the world. I believe these two witnesses are two churches, because they are described as two candlesticks, and in Revelation 1:20 candlesticks represent churches.

 

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

 

These two witnesses are also described as olive trees, which traditionally represent Judah and Israel.. the two olive trees of the OT. So these two witnesses most likely represent the Jerusalem based churches of Israel and Judah.  During the tribulation Israel is protected for 3.5 years, this is the reason the beast is unable to attack them for 1260 days because they are protected for that period. As soon as the period of Jewish protection is complete, the beast attacks the Jewish church in Jerusalem. But soon after that the second coming and resurrection occurs, to the shock of the world.

 

The two witnesses can not be the two churches. ??

Because the two witnsses are taken up first. And then the 7th trumpet will sound which is the resurrection of the saints. rev11.

You need to review that doctrine. Dont have to, if you dont want to.

 

jesse

 

 

Hi Jesse, I believe we are in the holy procession of Rev 19, we do not experience the great earthquake or the final part of the battle of Armageddon when Jesus takes over the kingdoms of this world.  I believe we are raptured just before those events, which is absolutely consistent with the rapture of the two witnesses:

 

And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly. And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Furthermore there is biblical precedent for olive trees representing Israel and Judah, and candlesticks representing churches, so I would say that Revelation 11 is referring to the preaching and rapture of the Jewish church (Israel and Judah) in Jerusalem just before the great earthquake and the Messianic rule of Christ.

 

Candlesticks are churches, in the same book of Revelation:

1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

I prefer to stick with using biblical precedent for symbols and this always works for me.

[Guest Jesse]

Argosy.

 

You obviously believe in the pri trib.

Jesus own words:

Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

This means after the trib. the coming and the resurrection.(the last trump.).

 

Rev.7: 9--14. multitudes and multitudes have gone through the trib.and made white.

What makes you think that the resurrection will be before the resurrection?

 

jesse.

 

[Salty]

Furthermore there is biblical precedent for olive trees representing Israel and Judah, and candlesticks representing churches, so I would say that Revelation 11 is referring to the preaching and rapture of the Jewish church (Israel and Judah) in Jerusalem just before the great earthquake and the Messianic rule of Christ.

 

Candlesticks are churches, in the same book of Revelation:

1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.

I prefer to stick with using biblical precedent for symbols and this always works for me.

 

 

I agree too that is not a Pre-Trib Rapture at all. It is post-trib, but pre-wrath.

 

Instead I believe our change "at the twinkling of an eye" comes at the same moment of the great earthquake. Per Rev.11, the sounding of the 7th trumpet occurs right after the two witnesses arise, and within that same hour that the 2nd woe ends and the 3rd woe begins.

[Littlelambseativy]

It will be possibly be two of the prophets who predicted the signs to come in the last days. Elijah and Enoch since they were taken and there is no record of their death.

[Guest Jesse]

It will be possibly be two of the prophets who predicted the signs to come in the last days. Elijah and Enoch since they were taken and there is no record of their death.

In the transfiguration, Jesus spoke to Moses and elijah.

This is the clue.

Jesus said to his apostles: some of you here will not see death intill you will see the kingdom of God.

And six days later he took Peter james and john; and saw Moses and Elijah in the kingdom.

 

jesse.

[Guest]

Hi, everyone.

 

Notice that in the Bible the heroes always come in pairs: Adam and Eve, Cain and Abel, Abraham and Lot, Isaac and Ishmael, Jacob and Esau, Moses and Aaron, David and Jonathan etc. They all are anointed, including us. were anointed at confirmation, or not. We get oil, implying the anointing. 

 

The difference is (cf. inchrist wrote): 

1 The two witnesses are symbolic or air called the two Olive Trees Rev11: 4 and Zechariah 4: 3-11. 

- Olive trees produce oil that can be used to anoint others. As Zechariah 4: 3-11 is the Word of God, and his number is 37. 

 

2 They stand in the presence of God of the whole earth Rev11: 4 and zec4: 3-11 

- Okay. 

 

3 The two anointed ones 

- They are anointed with capacity to produce oil to anoint others. 

 

4 They prohpecy for a period of 42 months. 

- This is symbolism attached to numerology. 

42 months = 1260 days = 9/11 (counting the zero, explain later) 

42 months = 6 x 7 = 6 weeks 

42 months = 3 years and half. 

 

5. any attempt to hurt Them immidiate death results in Rev 11.5 

- Okay. 

 

6 They are eventually killed 

- Okay. 

 

7 days after 3.5 They are resurrected and ascend to the heaven in front of the world. 

- Okay. 

 

Who are the two witnesses? Someone does not realize, yet? 

 

Jesus Christ and John the Baptist.

[Montana Marv]

Jesus died only one time.  He was crucified.  Then He returned to heaven until His Second Coming.  He cannot be one of the two witnesses.

 

In Christ

Montana Marv

[Guest]

Montana. Are you sure? 

 

What is the meaning of death in the Bible? 

What is the meaning of this: 

 

Mat8: 22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury Their dead. 

Luk9: 60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury Their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

 

Think about it.

 

Nelson

[other one]

I don't understand why people think it has to be someone from the past coming back.....    I don't see why it would/could not be any of us here if the Spirit filled us with their message and authority.

 

Is there some scripture that would rule out anyone alive today?????