Woman , Man Child, dragon

[Sister]

 

Mevosper

Sister - you have given me a number of keys with this insight. Thanks. 

 

 

 

 

 

Thankyou Mevosper. 

 

I've been wanting to talk more about this, but don't know even where to begin....I've been pondering how to word this for a week.  It's hard to put in words.  Here goes....

 

When everything is finalised and over, the glory goes to God,.... everything God does is for his glory.  The Lamb is God's glory, and God is the Lambs glory.  When our souls are converted, the Glory goes to God and the lamb, not to ourselves.

We like to think that the glory goes to us, but we get a share in that glory, that God's teachings were true, and our souls were converted because of it,

which is why his teachings/doctrine is shown as a woman because it produced children through her teachings. 

 

The true teachings came from heaven, and stayed here and we are feeding on it, through the holy scriptures,

....but the rest of the world cannot identify with it, because it's from above.

 

And this flood that the devil sent after the "woman" was the attack on this doctrine that came from heaven.

The devil has successfully trampled this doctrine, and twisted it, and watered it down, planning and scheming to lead it into extinction.

But God preserved his Word for us, and if we are true, he will draw us to himself and feed us this true doctrine already delivered through the Lamb.

 

At the return of Christ, the devil will be bound for a thousand years and no power to attack this doctrine for that time,

but because he has done so much damage, coming in to the church and causing so many divisions by introducing so many doctrines, and corrupting the true teachings,

that this has to be set straight once and for all.  (We all know there are many christians with various beliefs, hundreds of them.  Should all be preaching the same thing, one truth)

 

Therefore God's teachings that come out of him, will be sent unto the rest of the world again with no Satan around to corrupt his teachings.  All those mysteries, will be explained and solid.

 

 

Revelation 21:10   And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Revelation 21:11   Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

 

This is his holy city, where all the god fearing have dwelt spiritually, and this city that comes from heaven now will be manifested here on earth into a real city, ...a kingdom area with boundaries and people living inside, with Christ there and his saints governing within this perfectly structured building made out of true worshipers.

This building here, with the true teachings from God, comes with Christ on his return.  This is the big deal, that this truth now comes to the world and will be taught inside the gates to the Israelites, and in turn they will teach to the gentiles outside this kingdom area, which is how knowledge will be spread though out the earth.

 

My point.

It's this spiritual city Christ brings with him on his return.  The focus is on God's teachings, and not the saints.  The saints are there, yes, and share the glory, but are not the highlight of the event.  The highlight is God's teachings, his doctrine/the truth,...and the lamb is bringing it down to earth once again, not in the same way he delivered it before, but with power and glory, and with judgment this time.

 

The lamb = The Word of God

The lambs wife = The doctrine of God.

 

The Word of God is true to his doctrine.  They go hand in hand.  Gods word cannot lie. 

Remember God said in the OT he was married to Israel?, that was because they were feeding on his doctrine.  They had to stay true to that teaching delivered by Moses.

 

So we don't look at it like the lamb is marrying God, that sounds silly, or marrying anyone in fact, but it's an event likened to a wedding, spectacular and the bride is this beautiful doctrine.

So we better be ready, when this takes place, when the lamb comes for his bride, because we will be the guests at that wedding, and not the actual bride.  The glory goes to God and his Lamb.

 

I only gave you the example so far of that city coming down for the start of the millennium.  I wish to go into the other scriptures concerning the bride but have to go out for a while.

please bear with me until I finish the rest of my points to back up this.

 

to be continued.....

[Last Daze]

Hi Sister,

 

Would it be fair to say, in the context of Rev 12, that you see the woman as the Word, and her son as the Word becoming flesh, and her offspring as those who keep the Word?

[Sister]

.../continued

 

Revelation 21:9   And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

Revelation 21:10   And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

Revelation 21:11   Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

 

 

Whilst we are all trying to pin point exactly who the lambs bride/wife is, we come to the scriptures above, and it tells us with detail who the bride is.....She is that Holy City coming down from heaven to earth. Holy Jerusalem.  This city that always existed in heaven, where the god fearing have dwelt only spiritually, is now manifested, and solid, not invisible anymore to the world.  She will become materialised.  She will reflect heaven where there is peace, holiness, truth, & protection.

 

For this city, contains God's doctrine, ..the one truth...and the Lamb brings it down with him, (this doctrine, his teachings) and sets it up down here in Jerusalem.  This city will be structured to teach, ...a pure learning centre, and safe haven...a paradise where the lion will eat straw,

 

Isaiah 65:25   The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

 

Let's take a look at this city;

Revelation 21:11   Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

(This city is bright, full of light = truth.  The truth is pictured as precious stones, rare and beautiful)

 Revelation 21:12   And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

(The 12 tribes of Israel are the gates.  They did not come down from heaven, but they will play a major part in this City of Truth.  The gentiles outside will have to go through her now (Israel)

 
 Revelation 21:14   And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

(The 12 foundations that hold up the wall are the 12 apostles.  Christ chose them to teach his doctrine to the world)

 Revelation 21:15   And he that talked with me had a golden reed to measure the city, and the gates thereof, and the wall thereof.

(The city is measured.  It has boundaries)

 Revelation 21:16   And the city lieth foursquare, and the length is as large as the breadth: and he measured the city with the reed, twelve thousand furlongs. The length and the breadth and the height of it are equal.

(in our terms this is approx 2414km2 or 1499 miles square.)

 Revelation 21:17   And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.
(could this wall be made up of the 144K?  They would have to part of this structured building also you would think?)

 Revelation 21:18   And the building of the wall of it was of jasper: and the city was pure gold, like unto clear glass.

(The whole city together is like clear glass made out of pure gold.  It's built on truth, and the truth is not hidden but clear)

 Revelation 21:19   And the foundations of the wall of the city were garnished with all manner of precious stones. The first foundation was jasper; the second, sapphire; the third, a chalcedony; the fourth, an emerald;
(The foundation holds up the walls, we know the foundations are the 12 apostles.  Their teachings received from Christ hold up the wall in this city)

Revelation 21:20   The fifth, sardonyx; the sixth, sardius; the seventh, chrysolite; the eighth, beryl; the ninth, a topaz; the tenth, a chrysoprasus; the eleventh, a jacinth; the twelfth, an amethyst.
Revelation 21:21   And the twelve gates were twelve pearls; every several gate was of one pearl: and the street of the city was pure gold, as it were transparent glass.
(Pearls are cloudy, the gates are made out of pearls.  From the outside you cannot see the splendor within)

Revelation 21:22   And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
(True worship will be in the hearts, not in a building)

 Revelation 21:23   And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
(The truth in there will be so bright, this is the light that shines on them)

 Revelation 21:24   And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
(There are nations outside this kingdom area, they shall come in also and learn and worship)

 Revelation 21:25   And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

(Salvation offered 24/7)

 Revelation 21:26   And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
(The nations outside will know about this place where truth dwells)

 Revelation 21:27   And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

(Obviously not everyone can enter.  There will still be some wicked living outside these boundaries)

 

 

So this city, the City of Truth, Holy Jerusalem is a solid structured teaching facility, and a mirror image of heaven.  She holy Jerusalem is the bride, and when she is ready to come down, and be set up on this earth in Jerusalem, Christ and his saints will be there and will make up this building. 

Israel will be in the flesh. God will bring them back to him through mercy, and the foundations of the apostles will be their teachings.  The street is clear, and sits on the foundations, the truth can be seen now and is not hidden.

 

So the saints who are raised in the first resurrection, who have been residing spiritually in this city, and who were ready to be joined with Holy Jerusalem when the lamb was ready to bring her down, will take part in that glory, but not for themselves, but because they testified, and were tried, and found faithful that the doctrine they received from the Lamb, was the true one, and this same truth will be taught in the kingdom area for Israel to feed on, and in turn Israel will feed the gentiles, all for the glory of God.  This is that wedding when the true city comes down with all her truth and is manifested, and this city will change more lives for future generations and the Lamb will bring her.

 

There will be no jealousy in the kingdom, whether a resurrected saint, or man in the flesh, or a foundation, or a wall, or a gate because all will be joined together as one like brothers in unity of the truth with love and worship for God.

 

[Sister]

Hi Sister,

 

Would it be fair to say, in the context of Rev 12, that you see the woman as the Word, and her son as the Word becoming flesh, and her offspring as those who keep the Word?

Hi Last Daze

 

I see the woman as the teachings of God.  His actual doctrine.  This woman produced the child that was caught up to God when Christ was in the flesh.  Christ came out of her (her teachings) in the flesh, because her teachings prophesied that he would come. 

 

But we all know Christ existed before he was transformed into flesh and he is the Word of God.  But God is using this woman just as a symbol to show us that "The Word of God" has a doctrine.  A teaching. A true doctrine that goes with what he says.  His Word cannot lie, and his Word is not just a Word, but when it's spoken, it reveals everything he wants to show us, of things past, present and future, all the deep things, his whole plan, everything from beginning to end. 

The christian world are arguing over doctrine.  ie, pre-rapture, post rapture? is the millennium to come, or is it already here?  Are certain prophesies past, or are they future?  Is Israel going to be saved, or are they damned forever?  Is the kingdom in heaven, or will it be on earth?  So many different teachings.  There is only one truth to stop all this bickering, and the Devil has done all this damage.  It will be cleared up when God is ready to send his holy city down to finalise and establish his truth on earth for those who did not have it, and to put an end to this confusion.

 

Those who the shepherd have been feeding, will take part in that first resurrection, and they will be a testimony to that truth, that yes, it was possible to receive and the flood did not sweep them away.

Edited November 18, 2014 by Sister

[Last Daze]

 

Hi Sister,

 

Would it be fair to say, in the context of Rev 12, that you see the woman as the Word, and her son as the Word becoming flesh, and her offspring as those who keep the Word?

Hi Last Daze

 

I see the woman as the teachings of God.  His actual doctrine.  This woman produced the child that was caught up to God when Christ was in the flesh.  Christ came out of her (her teachings) in the flesh, because her teachings prophesied that he would come. 

 

But we all know Christ existed before he was transformed into flesh and he is the Word of God.  But God is using this woman just as a symbol to show us that "The Word of God" has a doctrine.  A teaching. A true doctrine that goes with what he says.  His Word cannot lie, and his Word is not just a Word, but when it's spoken, it reveals everything he wants to show us, of things past, present and future, all the deep things, his whole plan, everything from beginning to end. 

The christian world are arguing over doctrine.  ie, pre-rapture, post rapture? is the millennium to come, or is it already here?  Are certain prophesies past, or are they future?  Is Israel going to be saved, or are they damned forever?  Is the kingdom in heaven, or will it be on earth?  So many different teachings.  There is only one truth to stop all this bickering, and the Devil has done all this damage.  It will be cleared up when God is ready to send his holy city down to finalise and establish his truth on earth for those who did not have it, and to put an end to this confusion.

 

Those who the shepherd have been feeding, will take part in that first resurrection, and they will be a testimony to that truth, that yes, it was possible to receive and the flood did not sweep them away.

 

 

Do you see Rev 12 as also having a "natural" interpretation as well as a spiritual one?  That is, the woman is Israel?  Or do you see something that precludes that?  Some things have a dual definition, a natural and spiritual, like "the kingdom of God".

[other one]

I still think it's telling us when Satan is going to be kicked out of heaven.  I'll let you know in about three years...

[Sister]

Do you see Rev 12 as also having a "natural" interpretation as well as a spiritual one?  That is, the woman is Israel?  Or do you see something that precludes that?  Some things have a dual definition, a natural and spiritual, like "the kingdom of God".

 

 

 

Hi Last Daze

 

I'm not sure what you mean about having "a natural" interpretation?.  I see a spiritual interpretation that has been mostly fulfilled, and coming to the end of it.

The Woman is covered in light, so in my opinion, this is when Christ came because he gave the light.  Before that the world was in darkness.  Even Israel, only partly knowing God.

 

The woman has a crown upon her head with 12 stars.  This would be the 12 tribes of Israel.  They were the first ones to know God's teachings through Moses.

 

If we understand the prophesies, we will learn that Israel will be drawn back to God after the fullness of the gentiles come in, not through knowledge, or works, but through mercy. 

This is because God chose Israel from the beginning, and because Israel rejected Christ, the gentiles were invited to know God.  God purposed this.  When the gentiles fully come in, God will draw Israel back to himelf for his name's sake, and to show the world that the job he started with Israel, will be finally accomplished, for God to be glorified through them also.

 

The 12 crowns is on the woman's head, and the crowns are not the woman herself.

Israel did not come down from heaven, but when this woman came down, Israel had already been resting on her doctrine - through Moses and the Law.  They were part of her history.

 

 

God is just using symbols for us to work out.  He gives so many parables.

He also says that Israel was being carried in the womb in Isaiah.

 

Isaiah 46:3   Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:

 

God's woman produces children.  Israel are still in the womb.  They are not born yet, but will be. 

The woman has to go through labour pains before her children can be born.  (tribulation)

 

Isaiah 66:8   Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.

[Enoch2021]

1) Who is the woman ?

2) What does clothed in the sun , moon under feet and 12 crowns mean ?

3) When did this happen ?

4) Where is the wilderness ?

5) What is meant by thousand two hundred and threescore days ?

 

 

 

 

 

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1) Who is the woman ?

2) What does clothed in the sun , moon under feet and 12 crowns mean ?

3) When did this happen ?

4) Where is the wilderness ?

5) What is meant by thousand two hundred and threescore days ?

 

 

 

(Revelation 12:1-2) "And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:  {2} And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered."

 

There are over 800 Allusions to the Old Testament in the Book of Revelation; many in the form of Idioms, as is the case here:

 

 

1. The Woman is Israel.  SEE Joseph's Dream...

 

(Genesis 37:9-11) "And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.  {10} And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?  {11} And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying."

 

* Joseph is the Twelfth Star.  This is the Nation: Israel.... The child she birthed:  Jesus Christ.

 

 

2. There aren't "12" Crowns....there's "12" Stars.

 

3 and 4. This happens during the "great tribulation".  satan chases the Jewish Remnant to Edom/Bozrah, Petra Today (See Below), to Kill them before they can Petition The LORD to Return---(The Purpose of the "great tribulation": (Hosea 5:15) "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.").... 

 

(Isaiah 63:1-6) "Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.  {2} Wherefore art thou red in thine apparel, and thy garments like him that treadeth in the winefat?  {3} I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.  {4} For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come.  {5} And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me.  {6} And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth."

 

(Revelation 19:15-16) "And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.  {16} And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."

 

(Revelation 14:20) "And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs." 

 

.......

 

 

 

 

5.  the "GREAT TRIBULATION": "Time and Times, and a Dividing of Time": Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7, Rev 12:14; "1260 Days": Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6 ; "42 Months": Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5.

 

The last half of the 70th Week of Daniel (3.5 Years).  Starts @ the Abomination of Desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 9:27) and Culminates with Christ's Return.

[Sister]

 

1. The Woman is Israel.  SEE Joseph's Dream...

 

(Genesis 37:9-11) "And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.  {10} And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth?  {11} And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying."

 

* Joseph is the Twelfth Star.  This is the Nation: Israel.... The child she birthed:  Jesus Christ.

 

 

 

Enoch 2021

 

Genesis 42:5   And the sons of Israel came to buy corn among those that came: for the famine was in the land of Canaan.

Genesis 42:6   And Joseph was the governor over the land, and he it was that sold to all the people of the land: and Joseph's brethren came, and bowed down themselves before him with their faces to the earth.

Genesis 42:7   And Joseph saw his brethren, and he knew them, but made himself strange unto them, and spake roughly unto them; and he said unto them, Whence come ye? And they said, From the land of Canaan to buy food.

Genesis 42:8   And Joseph knew his brethren, but they knew not him.

Enoch 2021

 

Take a look at this please brother.  This is why Joseph's brothers bowed to him. Because Joseph was in a position of authority in Egypt, and his brothers came to Egypt to buy food because of the famine in their land. They did not know Joseph was their brother which they had sold because of jealousy, but Joseph knew who they were.

Here, Joseph's dream in fulfilled.  He had a high position over them, and they were afraid.

Joseph cannot be Israel alone, because all of his brothers make up the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

2. There aren't "12" Crowns....there's "12" Stars.

 

 

Yes sorry, my mistake, typo error.

 

3 and 4. This happens during the "great tribulation".  satan chases the Jewish Remnant to Edom/Bozrah, Petra Today (See Below), to Kill them before they can Petition The LORD to Return---(The Purpose of the "great tribulation": (Hosea 5:15) "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.").... 

 

 

God's woman has come already to us who believe.  Her doctrine was  delivered to us when Christ came.  We are feeding on the holy scriptures now, and receiving her light, which is truth.

 

 

 

 

5.  the "GREAT TRIBULATION": "Time and Times, and a Dividing of Time": Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7, Rev 12:14; "1260 Days": Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6 ; "42 Months": Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5.

 

The last half of the 70th Week of Daniel (3.5 Years).  Starts @ the Abomination of Desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 9:27) and Culminates with Christ's Return.

 

 

 

 

 

5.  Israel will be occupied by the false prophet and the beast for 1290 days.

The 1260 days is the length of time the two witnesses will be preaching in Israel during those days.

 

 Revelation 11:3   And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

 

The 2 witnesses will come preaching 30 days after the false prophet has conquered and occupied Israel.

[Enoch2021]

 

 

 

 

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Enoch 2021

Take a look at this please brother.  This is why Joseph's brothers bowed to him. Because Joseph was in a position of authority in Egypt, and his brothers came to Egypt to buy food because of the famine in their land. They did not know Joseph was their brother which they had sold because of jealousy, but Joseph knew who they were.

Here, Joseph's dream in fulfilled.  He had a high position over them, and they were afraid.

Joseph cannot be Israel alone, because all of his brothers make up the 12 tribes of Israel.

 

 

 

I didn't say "Joseph" was Israel.  I said "The Dream" he had is/was Idiomatic of Israel.....which it clearly is.

 

ps.  The story and the "why" Joseph's brothers did anything are irrelevant in this instance....it's just the Idiom that we're after.

 

 

God's woman has come already to us who believe.  Her doctrine was  delivered to us when Christ came.  We are feeding on the holy scriptures now, and receiving her light, which is truth.

 

 

What on Earth is this?

 

 

5.  Israel will be occupied by the false prophet and the beast for 1290 days.

 

 

 

 

(Daniel 7:25) "And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time."

 

"he" = the ac.  shall be given unto his hand...."time and times and the dividing of time" = 1260 Days or 3.5 Years

 

(Revelation 13:5) "And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months."

 

"him" = the ac.  power was given unto him......."42 Months" = 1260 Days or 3.5 years.

 

 

 

The 1290 Days (and the 1335 Days) comes from here....

 

(Daniel 12:11-12) "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.  {12} Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."

 

....has sent Bible Scholars to The Medicine Cabinet.

Why?  There is no " til " OBJECT there's only a "From" Object or Objects. We find the same language as Daniel 9:27 with the "and".  It does not say, "From the time that the daily sacrifice be taken away " til " the abomination that make it desolate shall be 1290 days.  It has..... "and" !

In other words, you have a terminus a quo ("From") BUT no terminus ad quem ("Til" ____) ; other than.....(Daniel 12:12) "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days."  Which adds nothing to the mystery.

So we have:

1260 Days: "Time and Times, and a Dividing of Time": Dan 7:25, Dan 12:7, Rev 12:14; "1260 Days": Rev 11:3, Rev 12:6 ; "42 Months": Rev 11:2, Rev 13:5.

1290 Days. (Daniel 12:11)

1335 Days. (Daniel 12:12)

Let me say this....and I can't be dogmatic about it for there is No Light shed on this issue (and remember, we're talking about 75 unaccounted for days).  I proffer (by speculation) that this 75 Days may be merely Logistical:

Post Christ's Return (Rev 19:1-16),  you have the events from (Rev 19:17-21) - (Rev 20:1-5) that occur before the Millennium.  And One Big Event that remains concealed @ the End here (as far as I can tell)..................The Sheep and Goat Judgement.

 

 

The 1260 days is the length of time the two witnesses will be preaching in Israel during those days.

 

 

Yep.  And the same amount of Time power is given to the ac:  SEE Above.