PRAY FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF OUR ENEMIES

[Willa]

Many christians believe that it is a sin to pray that God destroy their enemies or in other word to kill them 

 

I am of the view there are times when you must pray against your enemies that God will destroy them from the face of the earth or get them sick etc 

 

What sayesth Thou Worthy ?

I sayest that thou must thinketh that thy thoughts are more holy when thou speaketh in King James. Thy thoughts are amiss.

Luke 9:54-56

And when His disciples James and John saw this, the said: "Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?" But He turned and rebuked them and said: "You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives but to save them."

I seriously doubt that you are walking according to the Spirit of God. Jesus did not go about destroying those who opposed Him. He even rebuked Peter for cutting off the guy's ear when they came to the Garden to arrest Jesus.

You are not serving the God and Father of my Lord Jesus Christ when you pray that evil comes to a person. What god do you suppose answered your prayer? I actually know people who say that they pray to God when they want something good and pray to satan when they want something bad to happen to a person. Is that what you did, knowingly or unknowingly?

[Guest shiloh357]

Of course I could just lob the ball back, but in all seriousness, why do you believe that passage is misapplied?

 

I would really like to know your reasoning here please

It's misapplied because Paul didn't have national foreign policy in mind when he penned those words.   Paul was speaking to a church culture that was undergoing intense persecution for their faith from both Jews and from the Roman empire.  Paul was speaking in those terms.

 

What I am hearing is that any desire to see ISIS wiped out is unbiblical and I just don't think it is.  You are dealing with an enemy that is irretrievably wicked and no amount of "Love" is going to change them.  The situation demands that ISIS be purged from existence, otherwise they will continue to victimize innocent people not the least of which are our brothers and sisters. 

[enoob57]

[Guest Judas Machabeus]

Of course I could just lob the ball back, but in all seriousness, why do you believe that passage is misapplied?

I would really like to know your reasoning here please

It's misapplied because Paul didn't have national foreign policy in mind when he penned those words. Paul was speaking to a church culture that was undergoing intense persecution for their faith from both Jews and from the Roman empire. Paul was speaking in those terms.

What I am hearing is that any desire to see ISIS wiped out is unbiblical and I just don't think it is. You are dealing with an enemy that is irretrievably wicked and no amount of "Love" is going to change them. The situation demands that ISIS be purged from existence, otherwise they will continue to victimize innocent people not the least of which are our brothers and sisters.

There is a difference between taking up arms to defend the innocent and prayer to God to destroy some one.

Jesus charges us with loving our enemy. Straight from the mouth of Jesus. For me that means to pray for there change of heart. Pray the they come to see the errors of what they are doing and come to know Christ.

NOW in Luke Jesus says if you don't have a sword that you are to sell you cloak and buy one. Clearly we are to defend ourselves up to and including deadly force. I believe this also applies to defending the innocent.

So I agree with you that ISIS needs to be eliminated!! It's to be done with the sword and not with Prayer.

[OneLight]

 

Of course I could just lob the ball back, but in all seriousness, why do you believe that passage is misapplied?

 

I would really like to know your reasoning here please

It's misapplied because Paul didn't have national foreign policy in mind when he penned those words.   Paul was speaking to a church culture that was undergoing intense persecution for their faith from both Jews and from the Roman empire.  Paul was speaking in those terms.

 

What I am hearing is that any desire to see ISIS wiped out is unbiblical and I just don't think it is.  You are dealing with an enemy that is irretrievably wicked and no amount of "Love" is going to change them.  The situation demands that ISIS be purged from existence, otherwise they will continue to victimize innocent people not the least of which are our brothers and sisters.

 

I don't see how that passage is restricted to the parameters you set forth. No where in Ephesians 6 does Paul point only toward the Jews or the Roman Empire.  It just happens to be what was happening to the church at that time.  This, as with most of scripture, pertains to today as well.

 

As for your last paragraph, what I posted does not mean we should lay down and become a doormat.  Scripture tells us "If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men."  What I posted is scriptural and instructions on how to prepare for what is coming.  Every evil thing that happens, happens because of the spirits behind them.  Fight the battle where its roots are and there will be far less blood shed of the physical kind.  Will they all just lay their hatred aside?  No, not even close.  Should they be allowed to continue, God forbid!  Yet, to ignore that the true battlefront is against the spirit world, you are missing the whole point of the battle.

[Sevenseas]

 

Of course I could just lob the ball back, but in all seriousness, why do you believe that passage is misapplied?

 

I would really like to know your reasoning here please

It's misapplied because Paul didn't have national foreign policy in mind when he penned those words.   Paul was speaking to a church culture that was undergoing intense persecution for their faith from both Jews and from the Roman empire.  Paul was speaking in those terms.

 

What I am hearing is that any desire to see ISIS wiped out is unbiblical and I just don't think it is.  You are dealing with an enemy that is irretrievably wicked and no amount of "Love" is going to change them.  The situation demands that ISIS be purged from existence, otherwise they will continue to victimize innocent people not the least of which are our brothers and sisters. 

 

 

 

No...that is just not so.  How is our walk as believers any different?  has something changed between God and the devil that we've missed?  Isn't that spirit still

alive and well in the world today?

 

Who is the inspiration for the terrorist groups?  What is behind them?  If you think it is just flesh and blood, then you either do not understand the real war or you

think ISIS and others are a hiccup on the radar and God hasn't taken notice

 

You are extrapolating on what I wrote. It would be easier if you simply kept on key and didn't introduce things like 'no amount of love is going to change them' because I never said

that, never intimated that and don't, quite frankly, believe it.  The spirit of this world is at work in them and it is not flesh and blood guiding ISIS...any more then we, as followers of

Christ, are guided by our flesh.

 

We should be filled with the Holy Spirit and not understand things as the rest of the world does.  We should have a viewpoint that lines up with the Bible and the Bible is

definatley clear that the god of this world is currently the devil and all those who are under his rule are in opposition to God and His Spirit.

 

Further, I actually stated in one post that I would like ISIS wiped off the planet.*   I think you are trying to get your point across while skimming over what I really said.

 

* post 28

[rjp34652]

 

 

 

Many christians believe that it is a sin to pray that God destroy their enemies or in other word to kill them 

 

I am of the view there are times when you must pray against your enemies that God will destroy them from the face of the earth or get them sick etc 

 

What sayesth Thou Worthy ?

 

 

The biggest problem I have with this is that it's a blanket statement.   Who are our enemies?    

 

Does this refer to personal enemies?

- bad habits?

- sinful attitudes?

- the idiot at work?

- the vindictive neighbor?

- the guy who tries to run you off the road?

 

Does this refer to community enemies?

- the neighborhood drug dealer?

- corrupt political officials?

- national and international groups?

 

There are a lot of folks who deny any physical enemies at all.  It's all somehow ethereal according to their explanation.   If ethereal, then no physical means or methods may be used to counter its effects.  If physical, then grace takes care of it and we have nothing to do.  Either way, we just sit there and do nothing.

 

Firstly, much has been said that Christians have no business participating in politics.   This implies a blanket approval of a political process, individual or policy that is inherently wicked.  Christians have been called by their pulpit leadership, as well as secular society, to look the other way when it comes to this sort of thing.  Morality is a four letter word inside and outside of the church.

 

Second, it is often preached that God grants a license to sin.   Personal wickedness is condoned from the pulpit.  I've heard such sermons myself.  Sin is allowed to grow so that grace may abound - that sort of thing.  I heard one preacher conclude his address by admonishing the congregation to "go out and sin all you want this week".

 

OK, so whatever happened to bearing one's cross?  Whatever happened to turning away from sin as it says in the NT?  Whatever happened to hating personal sin?   Whatever happened to personal opposition to political debauchery and wickedness wherever it is found?  In support of the popular gospel of prosperity and marshmellow gospel - any sort of self-control or moral standard is an expression of hate language.  

 

In the face of so much laxity and licentiousness, is it any wonder the church is shriveling in size and effectiveness?   There is no longer any respect for the church at all.

 

Is it a sin to pray for God to destroy our enemies?  Apparently it is.  Apparently Christians today are called to embrace our enemies, to call their policies and practices our own, to deny Our Lord if it offends our enemies and to accept everything our enemies stand for.  To reject what remains of our own standards and beliefs.  Since Christianity no longer has a backbone, why not?

 

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

 

and that's just me, hollering from the choir loft...

[Sevenseas]

 

Is it a sin to pray for God to destroy our enemies?  Apparently it is.  Apparently Christians today are called to embrace our enemies, to call their policies and practices our own, to deny Our Lord if it offends our enemies and to accept everything our enemies stand for.  To reject what remains of our own standards and beliefs.  Since Christianity no longer has a backbone, why not?

 

 

 

That's what you understand when you open your Bible?

 

That's quite a synopsis and hardly what is being said in this thread.  Sounds like God has completely lost control and we had better take it back.

 

No one has said that terrorists should be loved on; rather, what HAS been stated and ignored for some reason by some, is that the devil is active through

these people and no amount of bombs is going to destroy that spirit .   

 

I think some folks need their eyes opened to see what is going on in the world that is not flesh and blood.  In that realm, we find the real battle which of

course spilled over in the physical a long long time ago.  Why do people espouse a physical solution to what is a spiritual problem?

 

The thing is, the Bible is still readily available to anyone of the mind to open it up and find some real answers.  I will agree that spoon fed America is already

choking on the baby formula and the rumblings of the ancient war are getting louder and louder.  Perhaps the dust cloud is obscuring the vision of those

who say they know as well.  

 

However, I don't see or hear anything that would lend me to believe we should all have a gun in the closet or drop the big one on ISIS....I don't think most people

want to really take the time to wait on God and understand what HIS view is in all of this.  There is no quick fix and if you have eyes to see and ears to hear, you

see the cracks all around and the choices being made.  But, you do have to have spiritual eyes.  

 

I just don't see any point to ranting or expressing anger at the spiritual state of the great US of A...or Canada for that matter.  Grief and repentance over the whole

mess would be far more appropriate IMO...and why don't people express the longsuffering nature of the Holy Spirit?  Its almost as if they think their indignation

comes from the Holy Spriit and I can assure anyone reading this, that the Spirit of God is NOT indignant.

 

I think people are getting indignant and that is the wrong expression of the nature of God.  God assures us of judgement...but as long as we are on the subject,

where does scripture say that will begin?  

 

The point that I and several others have been trying to make is that the real enemy is the devil...you know, like the Bible states.

 

We are not fighting flesh and blood.  To state that, does not negate any other truth but it does not give carte blanche license to pray for destruction

of flesh and blood either.

 

Where is the balance and an actual understanding of what the Bible states as a whole unit rather then limited function according to what seems to be

the popular swing in EITHER direction?

 

Seriously?

 

 

 

IF GOD DOES NOT JUDGE AMERICA, HE WILL HAVE TO APOLOGIZE TO SODOM AND GOMORRAH.

 

 

As catchy an expression as that may appear to some, it's hardly found in scripture and IMO, defines a very limited understanding of the nature of sin, the nature of fallen flesh and

the redemption of God.  

[kwikphilly]

Blessings....

    Yes Seven Seas.....it is true & I really do not like anyone passing judgement on America or hearing what they think God should do,it is absurd.......did God not say He would spare Sodom & Gomorrorah if there were any righteous found.(paraphrasing)....did He not desire to spare the Nation Israel if just JUST  ONE would stand in the gap??????What about Ninevah?                Well,I will stand in the gap for America Lord,please reserve Your Judgement,Your Wrath.......Help us ,Oh Lord with Your Divine Intervention...............................Help us return to You Father                                           With Love-in Christ,Kwik

[Sevenseas]

It's the whole picture...all the navel gazing results in inner conflict and judgement...on both a personal and global level.

 

Do we reflect on David's imprecatory Psalms or do we take them into the NT and try to understand them through the light of Jesus' words?

 

There can be no doubt God destroys those who oppose Him....however, we are not the hand of God.

 

The problem with having 'freedom' as Christians lies in the attitude that decries doctrine and allows for interpretation as God 'leads' by His Spirit, while

refusing to obey the injunction to TEST the spirits.

 

Not gonna get easier.

 

Here is an interesting observation from something I was reading on another site:

 

Secondly, the psalms were not written with the intention of expounding doctrine to its readers. They contain song, praise and prayer, and they reflect the psalmists’ faith, but they are not doctrinal expositions. Therefore, they may not be taken as explicit doctrinal instruction in the art of cursing people.

 

Third, they are prayers and songs addressed to God, not commands from God as to what we should do. They contain the heart-cries of a number of psalmists in a variety of situations. In joyful exuberance, desperation or guilt, the psalmists present their victories and defeats, their joy and their anger to the Lord. They are beautiful examples of honest prayer, even though many of the passages appear overly vindictive to our 21^st century sensibilities.

 

Fourth, although the psalmists list personal injuries, their calls for vengeance are born of the insults committed against righteousness itself. It is God’s honour that has been insulted, and the psalmists call for divine vengeance, not personal revenge. There is no mandate in the psalms for pronouncing curses on personal enemies.

 

I disagree with the reference to 21st sensibilities however.  I don't see the world as opposed to wickedness whatsoever.  The manner of war may be less distasteful

if you are not on the ground,  and we may say we don't think war is ok while watching blood spurt from the screen, but really, without God, just where are we

exactly?

 

I'm kind of holding breath on world events right now...waiting for the other shoe to drop so to speak.