The thousand years

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, George.

 

The 1000 year reign of Messiah -- we'll have our resurrected bodies -- and this proceeds the New Jerusalem.  During the 1000 year reign is when a child will be but a 100 years old -- are those who do not have glorified bodies but are alive during the 1000 year reign!  There is still a sun, moon and stars while the Messiah reigns -- and we are reigning with him during the 1000 years.

 

After this the final deception is the releasing of Satan from the pit -- and then we have the Great White Throne Judgment.

 

After this is the New Heavens and the New Earth -- where are are no sun, moon and stars. 

 

I believe this is the chronology of events in the future.  If need be, I can back this with scripture, but I thought I'd create an outline from which to work.

 

God bless,

 

George

 

Two things (for now):

 

First, please note that the Millennium is just the FIRST 1000 years of the Messiah’s reign.

 

Everyone uses the words “the 1000-year reign of Christ" or “the 1000-year reign of the Messiah” but they forget...

 

Luke 1:30-33

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

KJV

 

Second, who said that there would be no sun, moon, or stars in "the New Heavens and the New Earth?” Where do you get that?

 

Here’s some Scripture that suggest otherwise:

 

Psalm 72:4-17

4 He shall judge the poor of the people, he shall save the children of the needy, and shall break in pieces the oppressor.

5 They shall fear thee as long as the sun and moon endure, throughout all generations.

6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.

7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.

8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.

9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.

10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.

11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.

12 For he shall deliver the needy when he crieth; the poor also, and him that hath no helper.

13 He shall spare the poor and needy, and shall save the souls of the needy.

14 He shall redeem their soul from deceit and violence: and precious shall their blood be in his sight.

15 And he shall live, and to him shall be given of the gold of Sheba: prayer also shall be made for him continually; and daily shall he be praised.

16 There shall be an handful of corn in the earth upon the top of the mountains; the fruit thereof shall shake like Lebanon: and they of the city shall flourish like grass of the earth.

17 His name shall endure for ever: his name shall be continued as long as the sun: and men shall be blessed in him: all nations shall call him blessed.

KJV

 

Psalm 89:35-37

35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

36 His seed shall endure forever, and his throne as the sun before me.

37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.

KJV

 

Isaiah 24:21-23

21 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, and the kings of the earth upon the earth.

22 And they shall be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit, and shall be shut up in the prison, and after many days shall they be visited.

23 Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously.

KJV

 

This last verse uses personification of the moon and the sun, but the thought is that the moon will be “mixed up,” i.e., in its phases, and the sun will be “outdone” by the light of the LORD of Hosts, YHWH Ts’va’owt.

 

P. S. - Just remembered one more passage:

 

Isaiah 66:22-23

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

KJV

 

It would be kind of hard to have a “new moon” without a moon, or to be able to tell a “shabbat (sabbath)” from the rest of the days of the week without a sun!

[George]

 

Second, who said that there would be no sun, moon, or stars in "the New Heavens and the New Earth?” Where do you get that?

Rev 21:23  And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

 

Rev 22:5  And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

 

Isa 60:19  The sun shall be no more your light by day, nor for brightness shall the moon give you light; but the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory.

Isa 60:20  Your sun shall no more go down, nor your moon withdraw itself; for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your days of mourning shall be ended.

[Marilyn C]

Hi George,

 

Just popping in on your conversation here. Isn`t that the city, the New Jerusalem, though? That is not the earth. I think the operative words would be  `no need,` as the glory of God is there but on the earth in the natural order there will be the sun, moon as the Word says. Just my thoughts.

 

Blessings, Marilyn.

[George]

The New Jerusalem is after the 1000 year reign of Messiah -- and thus we're in the midst of eternity at that time.  The reason for the Sun, Moon and Stars was for times, and seasons.  If we're in the midst of eternity -- is there really a need to count years any longer?  I can only go by what the Scriptures state and it appears there is an end of "days" as we understand it.  Thus the reason for the need of a sun and moon to count time seems to no longer be needed.  But if there is a sun and moon it's not for the same reason as to count time or for light as it is now.

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, George.

 

 

 

Second, who said that there would be no sun, moon, or stars in "the New Heavens and the New Earth?” Where do you get that?

Rev 21:23  And the city has no need of sun or moon to shine on it, for the glory of God gives it light, and its lamp is the Lamb.

 

Rev 22:5  And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

 

Isa 60:19  The sun shall be no more your light by day, nor for brightness shall the moon give you light; but the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory.
Isa 60:20  Your sun shall no more go down, nor your moon withdraw itself; for the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your days of mourning shall be ended.

 

 

That’s INSIDE THE CITY, brother! OUTSIDE the city in the rest of the New Earth, they WE will still need the light of the sun, moon, and stars!

[George]

 

That’s INSIDE THE CITY, brother! OUTSIDE the city in the rest of the New Earth, they WE will still need the light of the sun, moon, and stars!

I guess we'll have to wait and see! 

[Guest]

That’s INSIDE THE CITY, brother!

OUTSIDE the city in the rest of the New Earth,

WE will still need the light of the sun, moon, and stars!

 

~

 

In

 

And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

 

And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

 

And the evening and the morning were the third day. Genesis 1:11-13

 

The Beginning

 

And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

 

And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.  And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

 

And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. Genesis 1:14-19

 

And Cleanly In The End

 

And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever. Revelation 22:5

 

There Is No Sun, Moon And Stars As I Read It

 

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. Revelation 20:11

 

~

 

PS: And Beloved, The New Jerusalem

 

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Revelation 21:1

 

Is Not The New Earth

 

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Revelation 21:2

 

Now, Isn't That Interesting~!

 

And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Revelation 21:5

[wingnut-]

Shalom wingnut,

 

I'll explain the 1000 years in as simple as terms as possible.  There will be survivors when the Lord returns.

 

Zechariah 14:16  And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

 

We know one of those countries for sure is Egypt!  I don't have time right now to detail it -- but the bottom line there will be people that do not have their resurrected bodies.  And these will inhabit the earth and multiply and multiply for 1000 years.  It will revert back to the times of Adam where lifespans of men will be 1000 years old etc.  This is why Isaiah says,

 

 

 

Hello George,

 

Thanks for the reply and the scripture, for the most part we are in agreement on much of what you have presented.  Starting from the top of your post, I just wanted to also add this from Isaiah, and am curious when the events discussed overall in chapter 24 take place from your understanding.

 

 

Isaiah 24:⁶ Therefore, a curse devours the earth, and those who live in it are held guilty. Therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men are left.

 

 

As I understand it, the few men that are left spoken of here, would coincide with those described in Zechariah 14:16.  Recently we had discussed the overall population of the planet, roughly 7.5 billion people, so in that light a few from 7.5 billion would be a larger number than typically comes to mind when we think of few.  That being said, we have never discussed end times view before, so you may see these as separate times and I am just seeking clarification on that.

 

I am curious on your thoughts regarding Isaiah chapter 65 as well, but to keep the length of the post shorter for ease of reading.  I will save that for a later time as I see those details as more of a secondary issue, or hurdles that may not be necessary lol.

 

 

Eze 45:19  The priest shall take some of the blood of the sin offering and put it on the doorposts of the temple, the four corners of the ledge of the altar, and the posts of the gate of the inner court.

Eze 45:20  You shall do the same on the seventh day of the month for anyone who has sinned through error or ignorance; so you shall make atonement for the temple.

 

So the sacrifices are for SIN, but they are for sin of IGNORANCE -- and it's not to CLEANSE the MAN -- it's to CLEANSE the TEMPLE!  Huge difference!

 

 

 

It never ceases to amaze me how I can read something a thousand times, and not see something so obvious as the passage above.  I love your explanation regarding the sacrifices, but this particular part really addresses a major hurdle for me, and is precisely what I was looking for in regards to an explanation.  There are still a few questions I have about it, but I will try to keep it simple for now.  In what way does this cleanse the temple?  And if this is a new temple which is constructed at the beginning of the millenium, why does it need cleansing?

 

I also agree with you on the size of Ezekiel's temple being huge, and according to my calculations ( math is not my strength though) it would be much too large for the temple mount or even the city of Jerusalem itself.  Of course I understand also that not everyone agrees on the measurements.  If I am understanding you right, you do not see this temple as being the New Jerusalem, correct?

 

I look forward to your response, God bless you.

[George]

 

Thanks for the reply and the scripture, for the most part we are in agreement on much of what you have presented.  Starting from the top of your post, I just wanted to also add this from Isaiah, and am curious when the events discussed overall in chapter 24 take place from your understanding.

If you read the entire passage of Isaiah 24, it's referring to the Day of the Lord and when He comes to defend Jerusalem.  You can read about it in Zechariah 14.

 

There will be people that do NOT come up to fight against Jerusalem, and its these survivors which repopulate the world. 

 

As far as Isaiah 65 is concerned, it's obviously talking about a time in the distant future.  I believe you have a series of events laid out, of which is the beginning of the season when the Messiah will rule and reign from Israel once again and the earth will be at peace, with the end of wars as we understand it. 

 

Remember that Isaiah 65 is a very BRIEF synopsis of a time frame we do not have many other Scriptural references to collaborate a detailed explanation of the future.   I suppose this is why Paul wrote, "But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him"  (1Co 2:9)

 

As far as the Temple being cleansed, we have to also remember that the instructions of that time frame will be a bit different.  While the Torah was given to the Jewish people, and the New Testament contained many of the same precepts of the Torah, we will also be looking at another time frame -- with another set of instructions.  Remember what it says in Ezekiel 43:12  This is the law of the temple: the whole territory on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the temple.  Which literally says in Hebrew -- Torah Ha'Bayit -- or the Law of the House.  We don't entirely understand what that means, but we are given a glimpse of the instructions.  We'll understand all of these things in glory.

 

Remember what we are discussing now, we're seeing through a glass darkly!  As the Scriptures so clearly tell us, "And if any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know."  1 Cor. 8:2

 

We can get a glimpse of the future, but we're hardly getting a full detailed explanation of it!

[angels4u]

 

 

Thanks for the reply and the scripture, for the most part we are in agreement on much of what you have presented.  Starting from the top of your post, I just wanted to also add this from Isaiah, and am curious when the events discussed overall in chapter 24 take place from your understanding.

If you read the entire passage of Isaiah 24, it's referring to the Day of the Lord and when He comes to defend Jerusalem.  You can read about it in Zechariah 14.

 

There will be people that do NOT come up to fight against Jerusalem, and its these survivors which repopulate the world. 

 

As far as Isaiah 65 is concerned, it's obviously talking about a time in the distant future.  I believe you have a series of events laid out, of which is the beginning of the season when the Messiah will rule and reign from Israel once again and the earth will be at peace, with the end of wars as we understand it. 

 

Remember that Isaiah 65 is a very BRIEF synopsis of a time frame we do not have many other Scriptural references to collaborate a detailed explanation of the future.   I suppose this is why Paul wrote, "But, as it is written, "What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him"  (1Co 2:9)

 

As far as the Temple being cleansed, we have to also remember that the instructions of that time frame will be a bit different.  While the Torah was given to the Jewish people, and the New Testament contained many of the same precepts of the Torah, we will also be looking at another time frame -- with another set of instructions.  Remember what it says in Ezekiel 43:12  This is the law of the temple: the whole territory on the top of the mountain all around shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the temple.  Which literally says in Hebrew -- Torah Ha'Bayit -- or the Law of the House.  We don't entirely understand what that means, but we are given a glimpse of the instructions.  We'll understand all of these things in glory.

 

Remember what we are discussing now, we're seeing through a glass darkly!  As the Scriptures so clearly tell us, "And if any man thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know."  1 Cor. 8:2

 

We can get a glimpse of the future, but we're hardly getting a full detailed explanation of it!

 

George, you said:

There will be people that do NOT come up to fight against Jerusalem, and its these survivors which repopulate the world

 

 

Does the Bible not predict that all countries shall come against Israel?