ARE WE RIGHTEOUS?

[petula]

We are all agreeing with each other, we are both. Filthy rags isai 64_6, and Heirs through CHRIST eph3_6

and all because GOD the Creator , loves us.

Thank you all.I enjoy so much being a part of Worthy.

GOD Bless.

[Guest]

We Know

 

We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren.

 

He that loveth not his brother abideth

 

in death. 1 John 3:14

 

We Know

 

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another,

 

and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

 

If we say that we have no sin,

 

we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

 

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,

 

and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

If we say that we have not sinned,

 

we make him a liar, and his word

 

is not in us. 1 John 1:7-10

 

~

 

I do not believe Christians are sinners saved by grace, meaning they remain sinners.  We used to be sinners, but now we are saved by grace.  Big difference. 

 

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:  for sin is the transgression of the law.  And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.  Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not:  whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.  Little children, let no man deceive you:  he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.  He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.  For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.  Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him:  and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.  In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:  whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.  1 John 3:3-10

 

I, along with many others, have been accused of not believing the Bible because we rejected the interpretation of some who claimed the Bible shows we have unconditional eternal security.  I fully expect those same people to reject this scripture by coming up with some excuse why it doesn't mean what it plainly says.  A true Christian does not continue to live in sin.  I didn't say that.  The Apostle John said that.  Accept what the Bible says or don't, but I choose to believe it. 

 

 

Continuing On With The Holy Scripture

And Believing It Is Absolute Truth

He Who Does Righteousness

 

In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: 

 

whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.  1 John 3:10

 

Is

 

For this is the message that ye heard from the beginning,

 

that we should love one another. 1 John 3:11

 

Jesus

 

Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

 

Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

 

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

 

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:3-6

 

No?

 

I am the LORD: that is my name:

 

and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images. Isaiah 42:8

 

~

 

Be Blessed Beloved Of The KING

 

The LORD bless thee, and keep thee:
The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

 

And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Numbers 6:24-27

 

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Guest]

One Is Either A Sinner

 

For all have sinned,

 

and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23

 

Saved By Grace

 

For the wages of sin is death;

 

but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23

 

Or

 

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son,

 

that whosoever believeth in him should not perish,

 

but have everlasting life. John 3:15

 

One Is Not Saved

 

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

 

He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life:

 

and he that believeth not the Son

 

shall not see life;

 

but the wrath of God abideth on him. John 3:35-36

 

~

 

Thank You Lord For Saving My Soul

Thank You Lord For Making Me Whole

Thank You Lord For Giving To Me

Thy Great Salvation So Rich And Free

I Love You Jesus

I Love You

 

Joe

[Guest shiloh357]

No one is rejecting any Scripture, Butero.   The fact is, we are set free from the condemnation of sin, but not the effects of sin.   We still have a sinful nature and our flesh has not been redeemed.   We still sin, all of us.  The part of us that is born again, no longer sins, which is what I John 3: 3-10 is talking about.  If we were redeemed from the effects of sin, we would never die.  The flesh is still the flesh and there is no theological gymnastics that anyone can employ that will change that.   

 

Paul called himself the chief of sinners.  Paul didn't walk around claiming to be anything more or less than a redeemed sinner which is what we all are.    When the Bible talks about righteousness by faith, it is using a word in the Greek that was a legal term.  It refers to God's legal declaration of right standing with Him that is the result of Jesus' work on the cross.  God is legally imputing the righteousness of Christ to us on the basis of our faith in the finished work of Jesus on the cross.   It is not an impartation of righteousness.  It is not intrinsic or inherent.   It is imputed, or credited to us for a future time. 

 

The only works necessary for salvation are the works of Christ on the cross.  He performed all of the works that is necessary for us to be saved.  And we either trust in Jesus alone, or not. 

[angels4u]

Yes we are still sinners~~~~~saved by grace

 

Romans 6:11-15

declares, “In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!”

Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/forgiven-why-not-sin.html#ixzz3R42T1kiR

 

Ephesian 2:8

 

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--

God is good ---all the time!

[Will M]

No, we are not sinners saved by grace.  We used to be sinners, but now we are saved by grace.  The Apostle Paul was not saying he continued to sin when he referred to himself as the chief of sinners.  He was speaking of his condition before he met Christ.  He was speaking of how he condemned innocent people to death for their faith.  Paul also stated that he had to keep his body under subjection so he wouldn't be a castaway after he had preached the gospel to others, indicating that even Paul could fall from grace and be lost.  See how easy it is to go back to a single scripture and try to use it to build a doctrine.  "The part of us that is born again no longer sins?"  What in the world does that mean?  Are you claiming we have split personalities Shiloh?  One part lives a pure and holy life while the other part sins?  We are who we are.  We are either a born again believer or we are not.  The passage in 1 John is plain, and it states that a Christian no longer lives in sin, and it is he that practices righteousness that is righteous. 

Romans 7:15Amplified Bible (AMP)

15 For I do not understand my own actions [i am baffled, bewildered]. I do not practice or accomplish what I wish, but I do the very thing that I loathe [[a]which my moral instinct condemns].

 

Romans 5:1

Therefore,since we are justified (acquitted, declared righteous, and given a right standing with God) through faith, let us [grasp the fact that we] have [the peace of reconciliation to hold and to enjoy] peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).

 

Romans 5:9

Therefore, since we are now justified (acquitted, made righteous, and brought into right relationship with God) by Christ’s blood, how much more [certain is it that] we shall be saved by Him from the indignation and wrath of God.

Now, We are made righteous, however, we still have a nature that has to be continually brought into subjection of the Lord.

We have to be very careful, if we think we cannot sin or have no sin we make God a liar. this is unacceptable. We can and do sin and we are to repent, even if we see a brother

Sinning we are to restore them taking heed ourselves lest we fall into the same snare. 

I fully believe I am made righteous to God. I however also understand it is a daily walk and I will make mistakes, If any man thinks he stands let him take heed lest he fall.

 God is merciful and if we turn to Him He will forgive us, but it is sin itself to say we do not have it. We are in a natural fallen state, that is our nature, that is our heart, the heart of man is desperately wicked, Only the Lord knows it.

There is a reason Paul says to work  out our own salvation with fear and trembling. It is a very terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God but it is a worse thing to not be there. We are not perfect, therefore we are not sinless, we are covered and accepted because of the one who is sinless. Jesus Christ the Lord, blessed be forever, amen.

So though we are made righteous and alive to God it is up to us to walk it out and be quick to repent because sin is sin is sin is sin. Not one is without, no not one.

If this was the case friends we would not have the clear evidence of those standing before Jesus In Matt 7 and Matt 25. We must be very careful to not walk in deception, we all sin and we all have to confess that sin and be cleansed. It is wrong to say we are no longer sinners, we can and do sin. redeemed, yes, sin still separates us and it certainly allows place to the enemy. 

God bless you as you continue to seek Him

-Will

Edited February 7, 2015 by Will M

[Joshua-777]

The problem Joshua is that you are saying things that the Bible doesn't say.  The Bible doesn't say we are righteous, not one place.  You are not disagreeing with me.  You are disagreeing with Scripture and you are adding to God's word in the process. 

Actually I'm just agreeing with scripture.

Romans 5:17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

I'm saying I'm righteous by His righteousness and not my own. If I were to say I worked for my righteousness, that would be heresy, but the truth is Jesus became our sin on the cross that we may become His righteousness.

Philippians 3:9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;

Galatians 2:21 do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

2 Corinthians 5:21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.

Faith in Jesus brings us into righteousness.

Romans 10:10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

By faith in Christ we've been made righteous, " in Right Standing with God" He also gave us a new nature through His Spirit living in us. We are a new man created in Righteousness and Holiness.

Ephesians 4:20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.

[wingnut-]

 

Actually I'm just agreeing with scripture.

 

18 Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man’s righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man’s obedience many will be made righteous.

 

 

Actually, you are overlooking the verb tense in the passages.  God bless you.

[wingnut-]

I think Wingnut, that when it speaks in future tense, that verse in Romans is referring to all the people that will be made righteous through Christ.  After Adam sinned, original sin came upon all mankind, but through Christ, all that trust him in the future will be made righteous.  There are many who will be made righteous that have not been born yet.  We who are saved have already received "the gift of righteousness" according to verse 17. 

 

Hello Butero,

 

Well, this is something I would offer for your consideration if you wish to think it over.  First, by establishing some basic indicators as to a symbol in scripture of righteousness.

 

Revelation 19:⁸ it was granted her to clothe herself

    with fine linen, bright and pure”—

for the fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.

 

Revelation 19:¹⁴ And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him on white horses.

 

Above we see that fine linen is given to the saints as a sign of their righteousness in Him.  Now look at when it is given below.

 

Revelation 6:⁹ When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain for the word of God and for the witness they had borne. ¹⁰ They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” ¹¹ Then they were each given a white robe and told to rest a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and their brothers should be complete, who were to be killed as they themselves had been.

 

These are people who have died a natural death as believers, they are already in heaven, and they are waiting.  They do not receive their white robes until here.  That means, no one has them yet, it is a future event.  God bless you.

[Will M]

Good Morning Butero,

God bless you.

 

I don't ascribe to any teaching in particular. 

You are drawing truths from the word but perhaps overlooking the ones that are also just as important.

In your last comment you mention 1 john.

In 1 john 1:9 it says If we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

10:if we say we have no sin we make God a liar and the truth is not in us.

 

O.k so if we can make God a liar by saying we are no longer sinners, we simply don't know the truth. Sin is sin, sin unconfessed is not redeemed, that is an error in thinking sir.

Sin is not covered up like people try to do, in fact if you are living bound in pornography as an example God may just send someone with a revelation of that and call you to repent. The reality of God is much different than what fits in our neat little boxes. Know what I mean? The enemy has asked for us by name and he knows every weakness we have. 

 

I certainly don't believe it is ok to sin, I certainly don't believe we have no choice. I do however acknowledge that I myself sin, yet I walk daily and pray constantly, sometimes things irk me, sometimes I worry, we can't simply say well if we make a mistake or commit a sin we are covered. No that is not accurate. Sin will undoubtedly separate us. We are sinners, redeemed by Jesus, called to walk worthy of that calling. Faithfully and reliantly upon Him and Him alone, but we do sin. I am going to show you something maybe you have missed. Paul is speaking present tense, having already a new nature. 

Romans 7:15-

15 For I do not understand my own actions [i am baffled, bewildered]. I do not practice or accomplish what I wish, but I do the very thing that I loathe [[a]which my moral instinct condemns].

16 Now if I do [habitually] what is contrary to my desire, [that means that] I acknowledge and agree that the Law is good (morally excellent) and that I take sides with it.

17 However, it is no longer I who do the deed, but the sin [principle] which is at home in me and has possession of me.

18 For I know that nothing good dwells within me, that is, in my flesh. I can will what is right, but I cannot perform it. [i have the intention and urge to do what is right, but no power to carry it out.]

19 For I fail to practice the good deeds I desire to do, but the evil deeds that I do not desire to do are what I am [ever] doing.

20 Now if I do what I do not desire to do, it is no longer I doing it [it is not myself that acts], but the sin [principle] which dwells within me [[b]fixed and operating in my soul].

21 So I find it to be a law (rule of action of my being) that when I want to do what is right and good, evil is ever present with me and I am subject to its insistent demands.

22 For I endorse and delight in the Law of God in my inmost self [with my new nature].

23 But I discern in my bodily members [[c]in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh] a different law (rule of action) at war against the law of my mind (my reason) and making me a prisoner to the law of sin that dwells in my bodily organs [[d]in the sensitive appetites and wills of the flesh].

24 O unhappy and pitiable and wretched man that I am! Who will release and deliver me from [the shackles of] this body of death?

25 O thank God! [He will!] through Jesus Christ (the Anointed One) our Lord! So then indeed I, of myself with the mind and heart, serve the Law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

 

The flesh is constantly warring with the Spirit my brother.

 

It seems that you are saying if we do sin it is no big deal, I don't understand this. It is something we indeed must deal with.

 

It dwells within us. we must overcome it.

God bless you as you continue to seek Him.

-Will

Edited February 7, 2015 by Will M