missmuffet Posted April 26, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 34 Topic Count: 1,993 Topics Per Day: 0.48 Content Count: 48,691 Content Per Day: 11.76 Reputation: 30,343 Days Won: 226 Joined: 01/11/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2015 http://www.gotquestions.org/faith-without-works-dead.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezra Posted April 26, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 16 Topic Count: 134 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 8,142 Content Per Day: 2.34 Reputation: 6,612 Days Won: 20 Joined: 11/02/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2015 Genuine faith must produce good works (Eph 2:8-10). By their fruits ye shall know them. The problem arises when men begin to teach that SALVATION = FAITH + WORKS + SACRAMENTS + PENANCE + WHATEVER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut- Posted April 26, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 39 Topic Count: 101 Topics Per Day: 0.02 Content Count: 7,673 Content Per Day: 1.31 Reputation: 7,358 Days Won: 67 Joined: 04/22/2008 Status: Offline Share Posted April 26, 2015 I agree with Ezra, we are known by our fruits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua-777 Posted April 26, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 5 Topic Count: 410 Topics Per Day: 0.06 Content Count: 3,102 Content Per Day: 0.48 Reputation: 522 Days Won: 6 Joined: 10/19/2006 Status: Offline Birthday: 11/07/1984 Share Posted April 26, 2015 I like the way the CJB translation puts it. James 2:17 Thus, faith by itself, unaccompanied by actions, is dead. 18 But someone will say that you have faith and I have actions. Show me this faith of yours without the actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions! If you have faith in God, you are going to act on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qnts2 Posted April 29, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 3 Topic Count: 20 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 2,875 Content Per Day: 0.70 Reputation: 1,336 Days Won: 9 Joined: 03/13/2013 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2015 Just a couple of thoughts. I have thought about that verse, 'faith without works is dead'. Where my thoughts led me was to the understanding of how we react to faith. Faith at the most basic, is a firm belief in the reality of something or how something works. I know this is not a good example, but it is the example that entered my mind when I was thinking about the verse. Gravity is invisible. We can't see it. I was taught about gravity in school, so I would say that I believed that gravity existed and is real. But, if I walked around hanging on to objects so that I don't float away, I might be saying I believe in gravity, but in reality, my actions would say that I don't really have any faith that gravity is real and will keep me firmly planted on the earth. If we have real faith, we will act on that faith. I say I have faith in God, but if my actions show a lack of faith, then I might claim to have faith in God, but in the area of question, it is clearly a dead faith because I do not act like I really do believe. If a person really believes, has faith, it would be automatic to act based on that faith. I guess the best biblical example would be when Jesus was walking on the water, and the disciples were in a boat. Peter had faith when Jesus told Peter to come to Him. Peter believed that he could walk on the water because Jesus told him to walk to Him. Peter stepped out of the boat and began walking. Of course we know that Peter began to doubt, so began to sink and Jesus caught him, keeping him from sinking. But the point is Peter acted on his faith until he doubted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angels4u Posted April 29, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 55 Topic Count: 1,664 Topics Per Day: 0.20 Content Count: 19,764 Content Per Day: 2.38 Reputation: 12,164 Days Won: 28 Joined: 08/22/2001 Status: Offline Share Posted April 29, 2015 Hi Bobeep Faith without real works is not real faith at all. It is only a matter of words . James is not saying we are saved +works . To believe this would be dishounering to the finished work of Jesus Christ. If we would be saved by faith + work there would be 2 Saviors _Jesus and ourself. We are not saved by faith of words only but by that kind of faith which results in a life of good works. Works are not the root of Salvation but the fruit,they are not the cause but the effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willa Posted April 30, 2015 Group: Worthy Ministers Followers: 68 Topic Count: 186 Topics Per Day: 0.04 Content Count: 14,253 Content Per Day: 3.32 Reputation: 16,670 Days Won: 30 Joined: 08/14/2012 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2015 Word faith means belief, firm persuasion or conviction and implys an active relationship. In the same way the word to believe means to rely upon, to commit to and surrender to. The noun pistis is closely related to the verb pisteuo, and the both hinge on the character and nature of God. (Vine.) So in a sense the noun is active. It is not mere intellectual assent, it is instead a full dependance on God. The hymn expresses it well: I know Whom I have believed, and am persuaded that He is able, to keep that which I have committed unto Him---. The verbs are a natural progression of an active faith. I agree that faith produces fruit and walking in the works that were prepared for us. But the point I am trying to make is that true faith actively depends on God in small things and large. In fact, it is the little prayers--Lord, where did I put the car keys-- the daily frustrations and problems, that build our faith and help to strengthen our faith to weather the calamities that life inevitably brings. We need to depend on Him moment by moment to build the relationship of active faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
By Faith Posted April 30, 2015 Group: Junior Member Followers: 0 Topic Count: 0 Topics Per Day: 0 Content Count: 94 Content Per Day: 0.03 Reputation: 110 Days Won: 0 Joined: 12/17/2014 Status: Offline Share Posted April 30, 2015 I like the way the CJB translation puts it. James 2:17 Thus, faith by itself, unaccompanied by actions, is dead. 18 But someone will say that you have faith and I have actions. Show me this faith of yours without the actions, and I will show you my faith by my actions! If you have faith in God, you are going to act on it. Just a couple of thoughts. I have thought about that verse, 'faith without works is dead'. Where my thoughts led me was to the understanding of how we react to faith. Faith at the most basic, is a firm belief in the reality of something or how something works. I know this is not a good example, but it is the example that entered my mind when I was thinking about the verse. Gravity is invisible. We can't see it. I was taught about gravity in school, so I would say that I believed that gravity existed and is real. But, if I walked around hanging on to objects so that I don't float away, I might be saying I believe in gravity, but in reality, my actions would say that I don't really have any faith that gravity is real and will keep me firmly planted on the earth. If we have real faith, we will act on that faith. I say I have faith in God, but if my actions show a lack of faith, then I might claim to have faith in God, but in the area of question, it is clearly a dead faith because I do not act like I really do believe. If a person really believes, has faith, it would be automatic to act based on that faith. I guess the best biblical example would be when Jesus was walking on the water, and the disciples were in a boat. Peter had faith when Jesus told Peter to come to Him. Peter believed that he could walk on the water because Jesus told him to walk to Him. Peter stepped out of the boat and began walking. Of course we know that Peter began to doubt, so began to sink and Jesus caught him, keeping him from sinking. But the point is Peter acted on his faith until he doubted. Awesome Answers here. Faith is not connected to producing Good fruit. That is not what James is talking about. The fruit of the Spirit (spirit) peace, Joy, faithfulness, Love come from character change on the inside. Not someones faith. Paul said it's possible to have faith that will move a mountain but without Charity (Love) all the Mountain hears is brass symbols. A fruit of the Spirit (spirit) works faith, it's called love. Without Love, and that fruit, faith won't even work. (Gal 5:6) So to say faith produce Good's works by fruit is putting the cart before the Horse. Character and fruit and love is something God and the Holy Spirit produces in us. Faith follows after that and responds, not the other way around. Faith without Works, is dead being by itself. James is talking about faith that heals the sick, moves things, changes circumstances. He is not speaking of some repentance thing. James ask the question concerning a person who has faith without works, can faith save them alone? Many die believing God to heal, or change something, but have no works or corresponding action to what they claim to believe. James goes on to say if you see a Brother or Sister hungry, and say Be at peace, Be filled with good food and be warm, but don't feed them, then your faith is in vain. That sounds a whole lot like some Word of Faith, Faith confession. Be healed, be strong, Food come to you. You can have people pray for you, pray all day yourself, but not taking action to what you believed you received just ends in failure. You have to believe what you asked is already done. (Mark 11:24) If you don't know if it's God's will, you best get that settled first. What does Works then look like that would go with faith and activate it? I can remember a brother in Christ who decided to show God he was cured of diabetes by not taking his shots. He was activating his faith with some type of work. That went pretty bad for him and he ended up in a diabetic coma for a bit. Several cases of Parents who claim to believe God, must show their church they are not full of unbelief and refuse to take the child to the hospital. The child dies. These are people who decide on their own what Work needs to accompany their so called Faith. Just as in the case of James, be full, be warm depart in peace, we are already commanded elsewhere to feed them. We have instruction already about that. Our works is at What,???? That's right, even when you try to make something up like removing your glasses to prove to God you believe you can see good then go jump in a car to make it across town seeing two of everything. That does not always work out well. Well, long enough. There are tons of scripture and examples of what that Work is. you try to come up with something on your own, we might be reading about it in the Paper. Mary said, Whatever He says do, you do. Be blessed everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted May 6, 2015 Group: Advanced Member Followers: 4 Topic Count: 15 Topics Per Day: 0.00 Content Count: 395 Content Per Day: 0.12 Reputation: 319 Days Won: 0 Joined: 04/20/2015 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2015 Why is faith without works is dead? Faith without works is uncreated. Faith with works is creation. Similarly: A belief without testing it is still a belief. A tested belief becomes obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneLight Posted May 6, 2015 Group: Royal Member Followers: 22 Topic Count: 1,294 Topics Per Day: 0.21 Content Count: 31,762 Content Per Day: 5.22 Reputation: 9,763 Days Won: 115 Joined: 09/14/2007 Status: Offline Share Posted May 6, 2015 All throughout the teaching of the NT, we find examples of what we should be doing. To me, if you say you believe scripture, but do not follow it, do you really believe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts