Church leaders and theological and seminary training

[Littlelambseativy]

Marilyn, I take it you do not belong to any "formal" denomination since you are so opposed to organized religious services. Am I correct or misunderstanding your position?? If so, why?

[Marilyn C]

 

Just because our traditional church model is "man's organization," as you call it, doesn't make it wrong or sinful.  You may not like it and prefer something different, but the traditional church model is not wrong and doesn't violate Scripture or cause violence to any doctrine.

Hi Shiloh357,

 

I am not against any particular model of how people desire to come together to worship, prayer, learn from God`s word & fellowship. What I am pointing out is that when any organisation becomes connected to the world`s system then the basis of that structure is man`s legal requirements. And as you well know there are many that have already caved in to accepting all sorts of wrong (scripturally wrong) behaviour. Time will tell what each work is based on.

 

Marilyn.

 

Hi Littlelambseativy,

 

Thank you for wanting to have clarification on my position. The above notes will help you there. Also I am putting together some notes on the `world`s system` in relation to our public meetings for believers.

 

Marilyn.

[Ezra]

Public meetings come & go, but true relationships in the Lord, encourage, exhort & build up to maturity.

This statement is not according to Scripture, and public meetings may not be dismissed as above. While this is technically off topic it needs a response.

 

While Christians must maintain a close personal relationship with Christ, Scripture reveals that Christ's disciples "gathered together" or "assembled together" to worship on the Lord's Day (and this was confirmed by Justin Martyr around 150 AD, when the Church was still  a relatively new entity). Indeed, the literal meaning of ekklesia (translated "church") is assembly.

 

Therefore public meetings don't just come and go as Marilyn claims.  The pattern of a true Christian church is found in Acts chapter 2, where the disciples "continued steadfastly in the apostles doctrine, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers".  These were corporate gatherings. 

 

Just as the Jews gathered together on the sabbath in their synagogoues to worship and rest (and Christ made it His practice to attend), Christians gather together on the first day of the week (the Lord's Day), not only to remember the resurrection, but to also remember the sacrifice of Christ in the "breaking of bread" (the Lord's Supper).  Thus the apostle John was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day (Rev 1:10). The pattern of worship is also to be found in the New Testament.  One could call the Lord's Day the Christian Sabbath, because it serves the same purpose.

 

Whether believers gather in a home or in a church building is immaterial, as long as Christians understand that bricks and mortar are not the Church, but those who gather to worship are the Church.  When there are more than a handful of Christians, a public meeting place becomes a necessity.

[bob2]

Firestormx  , thats a good question about seminary training . 

 

If the seminary is teaching the WORD of GOD , then all is OK , but when they stray off into the teachings of men then its not OK.

 

I had personal experience , in 1989 I went for 1 year to a Bible College full time . 

 

I found them to be teaching some false teachings , many of these teachings are common in Christiandome today. I did not return after 1 year . They did not want me back either . 

I could never teach something I do not believe. Also I found that I could have read the books they taught from for my self , and saved $10,000.00 .

But I also found that studing the BIBLE for my self is much better than the books they taught from , because when the Holy Spirit opens the Bible up to us nothing can compare . Thats why I keep reading it . 

 

I also noticed that many of the students knew very little of the Bible and excepted what they where taught hook line and sinker . If you do not conform you will be marked down .  And most likely fail .  I Some how passed but with out honors . 

 

I could tell many stories of things that happened at this school . Bottom line to me is , if you are not well grounded in the bible before you go to a school , you may be deceived as they are . 

 

The bible certainly has qualifications for teaching and pastoral positions , often ignored by churches . Among many other teachings in the Bible .

Edited July 6, 2015 by bob2

[Marilyn C]

Who has connected to the world's system??  Who are you talking about?

Hi Shiloh357,

 

I have put my thoughts on this topic in `How will this effect you?`

 

Marilyn.

[dhchristian]

On 7/1/2015 at 11:26 PM, firestormx said:

Do you think leaders in the church ( Pastors, Apostles, Prophets, Elders, Bishops and Deacons ) should be required to get college training in theology? I saw this brought up in another thread. I was wondering how other believers felt about this. Should it be a requirement? If you don't believe that Apostles or Prophets are for today that's fine. I'm not looking to debate that here, please just ignore those 2. Just curious how other Christians are wanting their Church leadership qualified . Can God qualify someone on his own without college training in theology? Is there a concern that college training in theology is just getting the doctrine of men and/or the approval of man?

I Did Not read all the comments here, but here is My Two cents.

What matters is the call of God to minister, not the degree. That being said nothing disqualifies a degreed preacher so long as he is called of God. Some of the Greatest Teachers of our day have been Holy Spirit Taught, and do not have a degree in theology. To disqualify them because of a degree is to disqualify the next A.W. Tozer. In fact seminary is in all respects a Modern invention The Church survived hundreds of years without theologians only men called by God to preach. I personally find that those taught by the Holy Spirit are far more able to address the problems of our generation, because many of them lived in the world before being called to be a preacher, as opposed to some kid pushed into the seminary, not having lived life, and choosing pastoring as a career. The call of God is the most important qualification. 

Just wanted to add some names of people who were not products of seminaries besides Tozer above. Charles Spurgeon, William Booth, Charles Finney.

Edited July 4, 2019 by dhchristian

[Worship Warriors]

The answer is yes and no. I have found that getting a bible training is just the beginning. That training will just give you the foundation. You are just learning the elementary stuff at bible college along with a lot of doctrine that could be off.

if you want to build upon the foundation, its going to be up to you how much time you are prepared to spend to devour the word of God yourself over and over again. I have just spend 40 years giving myself in a vigorous study of the bible. What I have learned could not be gotten from a bible college but only in being diligent constant  discipline and cultivating intimacy with the holy spirit. 

Just look at my website and you will see what I am talking about and the depths that the holy spirit has brought me into.

https://worshipwarriorsministry.com.au/

[Mike Mclees]

There is much corruption and peculiar teachings in the organized church system. Over 35 years I have become disenchanted with it. Still many are wonderful God loving people who attend them, but are taught peculiar beliefs and false doctrines  used to attract more to their pews.  the problem I see in seminaries and schools of theology is those who attend most times are wanting careers. Seminaries teach what particular denominations beliefs invented of men. Preachers are bound by the clergy to uphold them even when they are false teaching. All this is in the organized traditional church system

[Justin Adams]

On 7/6/2015 at 12:20 AM, Ezra said:

Just as the Jews gathered together on the sabbath in their synagogoues to worship and rest (and Christ made it His practice to attend), Christians gather together on the first day of the week (the Lord's Day), not only to remember the resurrection, but to also remember the sacrifice of Christ in the "breaking of bread" (the Lord's Supper).  Thus the apostle John was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day (Rev 1:10). The pattern of worship is also to be found in the New Testament.  One could call the Lord's Day the Christian Sabbath, because it serves the same purpose.

 

The Lord's day always was and ever will be THE SABBATH. The rest is just twisted doctrine to stay in line with the SUN-day worship of the pagans, the RCC and the other misinformed people.

They met in the Temple on the Sabbath for teaching out of the Tanach by the apostles. They may have had odd meeting on other days but it was only the 'official' ruling that replaced Sabbath with SUN-day. This highlights an issue with seminarians. They have their doctored doctrines and it is patently wrong. Same with Ishtar (easter) and the non-72 hours in the grave teaching. It all boils down to pagan influence in a church system that has been promoted by the RCC and other earlier pagan ideas to push anti-Israeli agendas.