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144,000 are first fruits?


Pamelasv

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These are those who follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  They are Christians.  They get resurrected FIRST because they are the FIRST-FRUITS of THE LAMB.  They are not part of the resurrection at the 7th trump, but are taken up before that, or they wouldn't be called the FIRST-FRUITS.  They are living in the last days, and the only ones out of the whole christian living world who are SEALED before the 7 trumpets blow.

Sister

What you posted is not what Scripture says:

Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.  Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance.  and 4:31 - and grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The 144,000 are first fruits out of Israel (All have a Jewish bloodline).  For this is what Scripture says.  These 144,000 follow the Lamb during the Mill.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Montana Marv

If someone follows the Lamb wheresoever he goes, what do you think that means?

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Pamelasv

I was kind of thinking this may not be right because of the fact that the tribe of Dan is not listed.  Blessings. 

Whether Dan is numbered with the 12 tribes or not, God has still reserved from all generations of Israel, not just the last generation.  These are the remnants of Israel who will be brought into the kingdom during the millennium.

For example, have you considered these scriptures;

Romans 11:4   But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

1 Kings 19:18   Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.

or this one?

 Jeremiah 31:15   Thus saith the LORD; A voice was heard in Ramah, lamentation, and bitter weeping; Rahel weeping for her children refused to be comforted for her children, because they were not.

  Jeremiah 31:16   Thus saith the LORD; Refrain thy voice from weeping, and thine eyes from tears: for thy work shall be rewarded, saith the LORD; and they shall come again from the land of the enemy.

Jeremiah 31:17   And there is hope in thine end, saith the LORD, that thy children shall come again to their own border.

 

 Isaiah 49:6   And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

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These are those who follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  They are Christians.  They get resurrected FIRST because they are the FIRST-FRUITS of THE LAMB.  They are not part of the resurrection at the 7th trump, but are taken up before that, or they wouldn't be called the FIRST-FRUITS.  They are living in the last days, and the only ones out of the whole christian living world who are SEALED before the 7 trumpets blow.

I think the term "first-fruits" can have different connotations depending on the context.

  • But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.  1 Corinthians 15:20
  • [144,000] These have been purchased from among men as first fruits to God and to the Lamb.  Revelation 14:4b
  • In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.  James 1:18

In the first verse, Jesus is the first fruits of the resurrection unto immortality.  Those who are Christs are resurrected at His coming, then everyone else at the end.  I don't see a separate "first-fruits" resurrection for the 144,000 being described.

The second verse describes the 144,000 as first-fruits purchased from among men.  Since they are described as "chaste" the term first-fruits seems to pertain to more of a quality than an order of sequence.  Weren't the first-fruits typically the best?

The third verse seems more general in scope which I see as pertaining to the church.  The term "first fruits among His creatures" could be a reference to those who are Christs being resurrected first in relation to everyone else who is resurrected at the end.

Last Daze

Christ is the First-fruits of those who sleep.  He is the first born of the Dead.  The first man in history to be resurrected unto life eternal.

The holy apostles are Christ's special first-fruits who came not long after him.  I'd say when the last one died (whoever that is), they were all resurrected together.  They were chosen for his ministry, and are the foundations. The 24 elders in heaven are them.  12 who were with Christ, and another 12 maybe after Christ rose, I don't know.  The fact is they were there in heaven when the Lamb opened the seven seals during John's time, so they are the first, first, first-fruits of all men who are resurrected.  And they followed suit shortly after Christ's resurrection.  How else would they be in heaven at the time John saw them?

No go forward  2000 odd years, and we have another lot of first-fruits coming in.  Amongst men living in the last days, during the most evil of times, where evil has reached it's peak, and wolves have infiltrated the truth, ...there are only 144,000 who follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  This means that they are loyal and true.  That number is also no coincidence.  It is determined. "Many" are called but "few" are "chosen".  Now take into consideration all the letters to the seven churches, all the warnings, and the subtle hints, with everything else Christ taught us, and I mean every single word, and we can see that the Christ is not too happy with the Christian population, hence the warnings.  So there is another small group that will overcome in the last days, just as Christ did.  Now consider that Christ did not overcome just at his death, but overcame during his walk.  These will be the same.  I don't see them as being given "a last chance" to repent...at the final warning, but repented and made their robes white long before that. If they walked with the Lamb, then he has been feeding them, and they have obeyed all his commandments.  Nobody gets fed everything in one day.  It takes time.  So these will be the FIRST-FRUITS of all living Christians during the last days.  It's only just a handful really.  They will be raised first before all Christians, which is why it shows them standing on Mt Zion with the Lamb.  No one else there yet!  They got there first.  They are the first-fruits of the end time Christians.  They are virgins, because they serve no other God.  They are loyal having served only one master.

 

James 1:18   Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

James 1:18 is speaking about the apostles only as I understand it.  They are a "kind" of first-fruits.  A different kind, simply because they are the foundation.  Christ chose them and fed them the Word of Truth,...showed them everything, and they feed us through the scriptures.  I think he's subtley telling us to take heed what they say, (the apostles) for Christ has given them the word of truth and have authority over us.

 

Now the rest of the Christians who will be in the resurrection at the last trump will be another type of first-fruits of the "world", because more will come in during the millennium and will be resurrected in the 2nd resurrection. These come in before the future converts come. Yet they are not "sealed" are they?  And they are not called the 144K first-fruits.  So there are different First-Fruit groups;

1. Christ (The Cornerstone) The First-Fruits because he is not the only one, the apostles are coming shortly.

2. The apostles (24 elders) - the foundations. They laid this for us.

3. The 144,000 - they followed the foundations.

4. The remainder saints at the Coming.

That's how I can see it.

 

Some thoughts:

The 24 elders were at God's throne before the Lamb showed up.

Paul states that there are three distinct resurrections unto immortality per 1 Corinthians 15:23.  1. Christ.  2. Those who are Christ's at His coming.  3. At the end.

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Last Daze

Some thoughts:

The 24 elders were at God's throne before the Lamb showed up.

Sorry not sure what you mean?.  Christ was in the midst of the throne.

Revelation 5:6   And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
 

Paul states that there are three distinct resurrections unto immortality per 1 Corinthians 15:23.  1. Christ.  2. Those who are Christ's at His coming.  3. At the end.

 

Yes

1 Corinthians 15:23   But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
 

My opinion is that the 144K firstfruits are part of "Christ the first-fruits", with the apostles being a "kind" of "first-fruit.  In otherwords, all of these first-fruits are "chosen".  Those at the beginning, and those at the end.

 

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These are those who follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  They are Christians.  They get resurrected FIRST because they are the FIRST-FRUITS of THE LAMB.  They are not part of the resurrection at the 7th trump, but are taken up before that, or they wouldn't be called the FIRST-FRUITS.  They are living in the last days, and the only ones out of the whole christian living world who are SEALED before the 7 trumpets blow.

Sister

What you posted is not what Scripture says:

Eph 1:13 - And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation.  Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance.  and 4:31 - and grieve not the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

The 144,000 are first fruits out of Israel (All have a Jewish bloodline).  For this is what Scripture says.  These 144,000 follow the Lamb during the Mill.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Montana Marv

If someone follows the Lamb wheresoever he goes, what do you think that means?

Sister

They are as sheep. If the Lamb moves to the right, they follow to the right.  If the Lamb moves to the Left, they follow to the left.  Christ was the "first fruit".  the 144,00 are to be "first fruits"  Not of the Church/Bride, for the Bride is as "one body", for we are all parts of one body.  But we as the Bride, we will rule with Christ.  The Bride is not split.

In Christ

Montana Marv

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Last Daze

Some thoughts:

The 24 elders were at God's throne before the Lamb showed up.

Sorry not sure what you mean?.  Christ was in the midst of the throne.

Revelation 5:6   And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

I'm referring to Revelation 4.  The Lamb is not there and the 24 elders are.

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These are those who follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  They are Christians.  They get resurrected FIRST because they are the FIRST-FRUITS of THE LAMB. 

How can the 144,000 be "resurrected" when they do not die but are taken up to Heaven?  Please read Revelation 7 and 14 to confirm that they DO NOT get resurrected.  This is similar to saying that they are evangelists.  That too has no foundation in Scripture. And calling them "Christians" is incorrect since they are redeemed Jews from the 12 tribes of Israel and not included with the Church (where there is no distinction between Jew and Gentile).  There will be a multitude of redeemed Jews after the Church has been raptured, and that would be the "harvest" corresponding to these as the "first fruits".

The Jehovah's Witness contention is that these are the only Gentile JW's who enter Heaven, which is completely untrue. We cannot simply make assumptions about these matters, and sometimes we need to say nothing because Scripture says nothing.

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Sister

They are as sheep. If the Lamb moves to the right, they follow to the right.  If the Lamb moves to the Left, they follow to the left.  Christ was the "first fruit".  the 144,00 are to be "first fruits"  Not of the Church/Bride, for the Bride is as "one body", for we are all parts of one body.  But we as the Bride, we will rule with Christ.  The Bride is not split.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Montana Marv

Matthew 16:24   Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

That's right, they are sheep.  Not lost sheep, nor sheep to come in during the millennium, but sheep following the Lamb already in the last days, servants of Christ.  Someone who follows the Lamb, follows his commandments, his ways, his steps, his truth, is Christ-like.

 Revelation 14:4   These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

  Revelation 14:5   And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

How does someone, anyone be without fault?

  1 John 2:3   And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

  1 John 2:4   He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

  1 John 3:24   And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

  1 John 5:2   By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

  2 John 1:6   And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

 John 14:15   If ye love me, keep my commandments.

  John 14:21   He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

  John 6:27   Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

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These are those who follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  They are Christians.  They get resurrected FIRST because they are the FIRST-FRUITS of THE LAMB.  They are not part of the resurrection at the 7th trump, but are taken up before that, or they wouldn't be called the FIRST-FRUITS.  They are living in the last days, and the only ones out of the whole christian living world who are SEALED before the 7 trumpets blow.

Absolutely incorrect.  The 144,000 are Jews, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel.  The only ones who believe as you do are JWs.

Revelation Chapter 7_ KJV

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.

6Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand.

7Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.

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These are those who follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes.  They are Christians.  They get resurrected FIRST because they are the FIRST-FRUITS of THE LAMB.  They are not part of the resurrection at the 7th trump, but are taken up before that, or they wouldn't be called the FIRST-FRUITS.  They are living in the last days, and the only ones out of the whole christian living world who are SEALED before the 7 trumpets blow.

Absolutely incorrect.  The 144,000 are Jews, 12,000 from each of the twelve tribes of Israel.  The only ones who believe as you do are JWs.

Revelation Chapter 7_ KJV

4And I heard the number of them which were sealed: [and there were] sealed an hundred [and] forty [and] four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5Of the tribe of Juda [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad [were] sealed twelve thousand.

6Of the tribe of Aser [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses [were] sealed twelve thousand.

7Of the tribe of Simeon [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi [were] sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar [were] sealed twelve thousand.

Morning Glory

So to follow the Lamb wheresoever he goes does not make one a Christian?  Do you know who the Lamb is? Of course you do.  Do you know what it means to follow him? I think deep inside you do.  So why are they following the Lamb?  are they just stalking him?  What have they to do with the Lamb?

Edited by Sister
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