Confirming the Covenant

[MorningGlory]

2 hours ago, other one said:

I question myself about as much as you guys do.

Why would anyone question you, O.O.?  You're pretty solid up there in Oklahoma. 

[Serving]

42 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

It sounds reasonable to me.  It's an ambiguous and complicated passage so I'm open to different viewpoints.  What about the time that lapsed between Pentecost and Saul's conversion?  Wouldn't that also count as confirming the new covenant?

I think we can all agree that Christ's death on the cross made atonement for sin.  Making atonement for sin is part of the 70 weeks prophecy of Daniel 9:24-27 and clearly happens after the 69 weeks.  So either the 70 weeks are contiguous and atonement for sin was made during the 70th week or the atonement for sin is yet to be made in some future week.  For those who hold to a future week, please explain how Christ's death on the cross (making atonement for sin) is still a future event.  It either happened in the 70th week or its a future event, unless I'm missing something.

Hmmm .. It's possible and if so it would be a good signifier since he was the Senhedrins #1 poster boy till Christ called him.. We have to find out if that event took place 3 1/2 years after Christ's crucifixion?

If so, it very well could be .. but 3 1/2 years is our key.

And Daze .. I realized I WAS WRONG about the last half of the week because this occurred to me while my brain was exploding : "70 years are determined upon THY PEOPLE" .. so the event signifying the end of that week MUST be Israel centric and not of Paul going to the Gentiles as I prematurely first thought.

Tell you what .. I'll leave it with ya  

Look forward to the answer .. take your time .. LOL.

 

 

 

[Last Daze]

9 hours ago, Serving said:

Hmmm .. It's possible and if so it would be a good signifier since he was the Senhedrins #1 poster boy till Christ called him.. We have to find out if that event took place 3 1/2 years after Christ's crucifixion?

If so, it very well could be .. but 3 1/2 years is our key.

And Daze .. I realized I WAS WRONG about the last half of the week because this occurred to me while my brain was exploding : "70 years are determined upon THY PEOPLE" .. so the event signifying the end of that week MUST be Israel centric and not of Paul going to the Gentiles as I prematurely first thought.

Tell you what .. I'll leave it with ya  

Look forward to the answer .. take your time .. LOL.

In the OP I stated as what I saw as two possibilities.  I thought you were approaching the final 3.5 years from a third, spiritual angle.  Gabriel did tell Daniel to "know and discern" and phrases like that usually mean there is more to it than meets the eye.  The new covenant certainly was confirmed to many after Pentecost but the balance of the last week, the remaining ~3.5 years, seems elusive to define regardless if "thy people" is a reference to natural or spiritual Israel.

That's why I tend to favor a future completion of the latter half of the 70th week.  Israel rejected Christ and and was broken off midway through the last week.  Their future 1260 days of protection and nourishment in the wilderness I see as the last half of the last week after which Christ returns.  When He returns, Israel is grafted back in and what Christ accomplished on the cross will be fully realized.  I also think that the 1260 days of the two witnesses coincides with Israel's 1260 days of protection and that they are involved in confirming the new covenant with Israel.  That seems to be the least problematic view according to how I understand prophecy.

[WilliamL]

10 hours ago, Serving said:

... I realized I WAS WRONG about the last half of the week because this occurred to me while my brain was exploding : "70 years are determined upon THY PEOPLE" .. so the event signifying the end of that week MUST be Israel centric and not of Paul going to the Gentiles as I prematurely first thought.

Bingo. This has nothing to do with the Gentile Church.

On 10/30/2015 at 5:31 PM, WilliamL said:

9:27 And he will have caused to make strong/to prevail/to confirm [a] covenant for many one week [of years].     [“…he will have caused”: 3 masc. sing. Hiphil Perfect. But in the midst of the week, he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

This was Vespasian’s policy, which he established from the beginning of the war: for those Jews who would continue to submit to Rome’s civil authority, Rome would continue to maintain the peace and permit the Jews to allow only YHWH-worship in the land. But any place in the land that harbored rebellion against Rome, including Jerusalem and Temple, would be desolated.

Flavius Josephus, The Jewish War, Preface 8: “[Vespasian] took…some of its [Galilee’s] cities by treaties, and on terms.”  III:ii:4: “…the inhabitants of Sepphoris…the largest city of Galilee…received Vespasian, the Roman general, very kindly, and readily promised that they would assist him…”  III:ix:8: “Now the seniors of the people [of Tiberius]…fell down before Vespasian, to supplicate his favor… Vespasian…accepted of their rights hands by way of security…[and] the citizens opened to him their gates…”]

The Jewish War lasted 7 years, 66-73 A.D. This prophecy has been fulfilled.

Jerusalem and Temple were destroyed "in the midst of the week," 70 AD, bringing an end to sacrifice and offering. Nothing here says the event had to be after exactly 3-1/2 times, just "in the midst of the week."

9:26 “And 'achar/after or the hinder part/extremity of the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people of the coming prince
He shall cause to destroy the city and the sanctuary.

The Hebrew word 'achar allows for the Messiah to have been cut off either at the very end of the 69th week, or else at the very beginning of the 70th week. History shows us it was the former, at the hinder part/extremity of the 69th week.

 

[mevosper]

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

In the OP I stated as what I saw as two possibilities.  I thought you were approaching the final 3.5 years from a third, spiritual angle.  Gabriel did tell Daniel to "know and discern" and phrases like that usually mean there is more to it than meets the eye.  The new covenant certainly was confirmed to many after Pentecost but the balance of the last week, the remaining ~3.5 years, seems elusive to define regardless if "thy people" is a reference to natural or spiritual Israel.

That's why I tend to favor a future completion of the latter half of the 70th week.  Israel rejected Christ and and was broken off midway through the last week.  Their future 1260 days of protection and nourishment in the wilderness I see as the last half of the last week after which Christ returns.  When He returns, Israel is grafted back in and what Christ accomplished on the cross will be fully realized.  I also think that the 1260 days of the two witnesses coincides with Israel's 1260 days of protection and that they are involved in confirming the new covenant with Israel.  That seems to be the least problematic view according to how I understand prophecy.

This thread on the 7 weeks has been very interesting. I do believe Christ was the fulfillment of the first 3.5 weeks. 

Looking at Christ's work on the cross as being the atonement for all man (Jews first, then the Gentiles), and with the idea that sanctification would come through the line of Jacob(Israel), there can be some interesting observations from Acts 10 as being the transition from "just Jews" to "all man"/Gentiles. 

Cornelius, a Roman officer (a Gentile, which seems minimal from first observation), is given a vision from the Lord (It was quite something to see as the spirit had been "poured out on" the Gentiles as well. Acts 10:45). Peter also is given a vision from the Lord that "what is cleansed, call thou not unclean." Peter's vision was about all manner of 4-footed beasts among the earth. These two "incidents" seem to be a "handing off" of salvation eligibility. Where before, just those who worshipped at the physical temple, the Jews, were receiving the atonement by the blood of animals. But now, with Christ being the perfect sacrifice for all men, Gentiles could receive the atonement and the spirit. This was once restricted to the Jews, who were given privilege to worship at the temple where God dwelt.

Christ said of Peter "upon this rock, I will build my church". 

Was there 3.5 years between Pentecost and Peter/Cornelius meet?

 

Good thread Last Daze. 

 

[FresnoJoe]

On ‎11‎/‎14‎/‎2015 at 2:51 PM, MorningGlory said:

Okay, I got that.  I understand what you're getting at with those four Scriptures. I'll even cut out the part about Israel plotting to deceive the U.S.  What Scripture supports this statement below?  And don't tell me to post Scripture to refute this because these are YOUR WORDS, they are not found in the Bible..

"Because the state of Israel is successfully dividing us into Jews and gentiles again, and if we are separate, and a Jew rejects Christ, isn't that the definition of an antiChrist."

The LORD Jesus Speaks Out On The Anti-Christ

I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. John 5:43

And On His Upcoming

And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God. Zechariah 13:8-9

Return

I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early. Hosea 5:15

~

Life

For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? Romans 11:15

From The Dead

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:16

Beloved, Just How Cool Is That~!

The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid.

Sing, O daughter of Zion; shout, O Israel; be glad and rejoice with all the heart, O daughter of Jerusalem.

The LORD hath taken away thy judgments, he hath cast out thine enemy: the king of Israel, even the LORD, is in the midst of thee: thou shalt not see evil any more.

In that day it shall be said to Jerusalem, Fear thou not: and to Zion, Let not thine hands be slack.

The LORD thy God in the midst of thee is mighty; he will save, he will rejoice over thee with joy; he will rest in his love, he will joy over thee with singing. Zephaniah 3:13-17

Love, Your Brother Joe

[Last Daze]

2 hours ago, mevosper said:

This thread on the 7 weeks has been very interesting. I do believe Christ was the fulfillment of the first 3.5 weeks. 

Looking at Christ's work on the cross as being the atonement for all man (Jews first, then the Gentiles), and with the idea that sanctification would come through the line of Jacob(Israel), there can be some interesting observations from Acts 10 as being the transition from "just Jews" to "all man"/Gentiles. 

Cornelius, a Roman officer (a Gentile, which seems minimal from first observation), is given a vision from the Lord (It was quite something to see as the spirit had been "poured out on" the Gentiles as well. Acts 10:45). Peter also is given a vision from the Lord that "what is cleansed, call thou not unclean." Peter's vision was about all manner of 4-footed beasts among the earth. These two "incidents" seem to be a "handing off" of salvation eligibility. Where before, just those who worshipped at the physical temple, the Jews, were receiving the atonement by the blood of animals. But now, with Christ being the perfect sacrifice for all men, Gentiles could receive the atonement and the spirit. This was once restricted to the Jews, who were given privilege to worship at the temple where God dwelt.

Christ said of Peter "upon this rock, I will build my church". 

Was there 3.5 years between Pentecost and Peter/Cornelius meet?

Good observation and a good question.  One that I'm curious about as well.

[Serving]

Hey Last Daze, William ..  just want to say ..

Thanks Daze for questioning me and causing me to re-look at my interpretation of the 70 weeks in the first place and for your thoughts which I have been pondering on ..

Thanks William for helping me to see I was wrong concerning Paul's ministry timescale for the last 'week' because when I went back and double checked from the beginning of Acts itself this time,  I found extra time I overlooked which sunk my initial interpretation.

This was the first time I've publically posted on a prophecy I hadn't properly worked out (which I thought I had) & one which obviously wasn't 100% understood be me.. not something I ever do as a rule .. (doesn't matter if I understood 99% either, because that last 1% is actually critical to complete the whole, which makes it more challenging & critical than the 99% I did understand)

Nevertheless the input from you two has been very helpful to me .. very.

I've been comparing Acts & Rev 12 which I am constantly being drawn to and think the answer lies in that chapter, or at least a big clue or some sort of signifier of which I think there could be something telling therein.

I'm actually going to my friends house today for a big 'seek and destroy' mission LOL .. he's confident he has the answer for the 'last week' now and I'm itching to hear it and test it and argue it and question it and test it !!

So, Lord willing, hopefully he has penetrated the veil of that 'last week' .. I will find out later today whether I agree (can see it myself) or not.

Keep you posted.

Thanks guys. 

 

[Montana Marv]

4 hours ago, mevosper said:

Christ said of Peter "upon this rock, I will build my church". 

You need to give more info; Matt 16:15-18

Peter is not the "rock", it is his (Peter's) response to Jesus question in vs 16 - Peter said - You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.  This is the"rock"; Christ being the Son of the living God.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[mevosper]

In the context, Christ is talking with his disciples in general and Peter specifically. His comment is directed at Peter here:

Mat 16:18 KJV - And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I don't think I'm too far from the intent/spirit of this exchange. Peter then becomes somewhat of a "spokesperson" for the disciples (Acts 1:15, 2:14,38, 3:4,6,12, 4:8, ...). Christ knew Peter would be the outspoken one. It was primarily Peter we see in the beginning of Acts. Paul continues the work of building what Peter started. In the end of John 21, Christ gives Peter more instruction concerning feeding his sheep.