Confirming the Covenant

[Last Daze]

 

What I don't see is a future seven year period of time where the man of sin confirms a covenant with Israel for seven years.  Never is there mentioned a seven year period of time in the context of end times prophecy, nor are we ever instructed to look for one as a sign.

 The false prophet will have power for 3 1/2 years. This will start when he takes over Jerusalem.  But before this, he must rise to power and gain popularity.  He will win everyone over with his smooth words and miracles to deceive.  It will take just under 3 1/2 years to win all the nations over spreading false peace and introducting his new policies.

Actually, it's the AntiChrist who will rise to power; the False Prophet is just his enabler. 

Only one of the evil trio is a human.  In Revelation, he is referred to as the false prophet.  The dragon and the beast out of the sea are fallen angels.

[Watching for Jesus]

Maybe this is true.  Maybe it's not.  What's more relevant to me is:

• Who confirms the covenant for seven years?
• Which covenant does he confirm?

Last Daze

As I see it, the one who confirms the covenant, confirms it with many, meaning that there will be others who also confirm the covenant with him.  He also causes the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

Daniel 9:27.  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

The little horn will be the one who causes the daily sacrifice to cease.

Daniel 8:9.  And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
 10.  And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
 11.  Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
 12.  And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

I believe the little horn will be the antichrist.

I do not know what the covenant is.

Edited November 1, 2015 by Watching for Jesus

[MorningGlory]

 

What I don't see is a future seven year period of time where the man of sin confirms a covenant with Israel for seven years.  Never is there mentioned a seven year period of time in the context of end times prophecy, nor are we ever instructed to look for one as a sign.

 The false prophet will have power for 3 1/2 years. This will start when he takes over Jerusalem.  But before this, he must rise to power and gain popularity.  He will win everyone over with his smooth words and miracles to deceive.  It will take just under 3 1/2 years to win all the nations over spreading false peace and introducting his new policies.

Actually, it's the AntiChrist who will rise to power; the False Prophet is just his enabler. 

Only one of the evil trio is a human.  In Revelation, he is referred to as the false prophet.  The dragon and the beast out of the sea are fallen angels.

Evil trio?  Who is referred to as the False Prophet?  What Scripture says the dragon and the beast from the sea are fallen angels?  This is completely unknown to me.

[Last Daze]

Only one of the evil trio is a human.  In Revelation, he is referred to as the false prophet.  The dragon and the beast out of the sea are fallen angels.

Evil trio?  Who is referred to as the False Prophet?  What Scripture says the dragon and the beast from the sea are fallen angels?  This is completely unknown to me.

The evil trio is mentioned twice, once in Revelation 16:13 and again in Revelation 20:10.

• And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.  Revelation 16:13
• And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  Revelation 20:10

Revelation 12 identifies the dragon as Satan.

• And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan.  Revelation 12:9a

The false prophet is the one who deceives the world with the signs he performs in the presence of the beast from the sea.  He is seen as the beast from the earth and later called the false prophet.

• Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.....And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast.  Revelation 13:11,14a
• And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence.  Revelation 19:20a

The dragon is a fallen angel because he is identified as Satan.  The beast from the sea is a fallen angel because he comes up out of the abyss.

• The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.   Revelation 17:8a

The abyss is only used in connection with evil spirit beings, never humans.  It's also in keeping with Daniel 10 where we see the "prince of Persia" and the "prince of Greece" who withstood the angel sent in response to Daniel's prayer.  This beast from the sea is the "prince" of this final world power.

[Sister]

I want to focus on this aspect of the seventy weeks prophecy in Daniel 9.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.  Daniel 9:27

Last Daze

From the day the angel spoke to Daniel to the command to build the temple = 1 week.

Daniel had to wait 1 week, then the command came.

From the commandment to build the temple to the crucifixion = 62 weeks.

From the crucifixion to the destruction of the temple = 7 weeks.

Total 70 weeks.

Prophecy completed.  Their second temple was rebuilt, their Messiah came, the Messiah crucified, then temple destroyed.  After this only abominations till the Coming, but the 70th week was fulfilled at the destruction of the temple. 

 

Christs 3 1/2 year ministry - apostles 3 1/2 year ministry after his death = 1 week (covenant confirmed)

Christ was cut of in the midst of the week.  Half way through that week.  Sacrifices and oblations no longer required, for the Lamb was the sacrifice.  After his death, abominations will spread, as spirit of antichrist and evil will grow until the consummation, ....until the 2 Coming when Christ takes dominion and is crowned King of King and Lord of Lords.

Sister

Your numbers are way off.  First of all what is said is from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes there will be seven - sevens, and sixty - two sevens. (see the order, first the seven, then the sixty two).  It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.  After the sixty-two sevens, the Anointed One will be cut off.  Here 69 Weeks have pasted.  Then in the future Dan 9:27 - He will confirm a covenant for one seven. 

Montana Marv

Please consider this;

Daniel 9:25   Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Do we agree that this totals 69 weeks?

One week is missing right?

Daniel had to wait 1 week before the command came.  There's your missing week.  It's in the beginning, not in the end way into the future. 

It's 70 weeks from when the angel spoke to Daniel, from that day.

Daniel had to wait one week before the command came, can you see now why there is only 69 weeks left?  One week had passed.

I gave my veiw point to Last Daze based on this scripture as simply as I could put it.

I

[MorningGlory]

Only one of the evil trio is a human.  In Revelation, he is referred to as the false prophet.  The dragon and the beast out of the sea are fallen angels.

Evil trio?  Who is referred to as the False Prophet?  What Scripture says the dragon and the beast from the sea are fallen angels?  This is completely unknown to me.

The evil trio is mentioned twice, once in Revelation 16:13 and again in Revelation 20:10.

• And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.  Revelation 16:13
• And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.  Revelation 20:10

Revelation 12 identifies the dragon as Satan.

• And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan.  Revelation 12:9a

The false prophet is the one who deceives the world with the signs he performs in the presence of the beast from the sea.  He is seen as the beast from the earth and later called the false prophet.

• Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon.....And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast.  Revelation 13:11,14a
• And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence.  Revelation 19:20a

The dragon is a fallen angel because he is identified as Satan.  The beast from the sea is a fallen angel because he comes up out of the abyss.

• The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.   Revelation 17:8a

The abyss is only used in connection with evil spirit beings, never humans.  It's also in keeping with Daniel 10 where we see the "prince of Persia" and the "prince of Greece" who withstood the angel sent in response to Daniel's prayer.  This beast from the sea is the "prince" of this final world power.

Hmmm....I've not ever heard it explained in those terms; I need to think about this.  Thanks for explaining what you meant clearly and with Scriptural back up, Daze.

[Montana Marv]

I want to focus on this aspect of the seventy weeks prophecy in Daniel 9.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week.  Daniel 9:27

Last Daze

From the day the angel spoke to Daniel to the command to build the temple = 1 week.

Daniel had to wait 1 week, then the command came.

From the commandment to build the temple to the crucifixion = 62 weeks.

From the crucifixion to the destruction of the temple = 7 weeks.

Total 70 weeks.

Prophecy completed.  Their second temple was rebuilt, their Messiah came, the Messiah crucified, then temple destroyed.  After this only abominations till the Coming, but the 70th week was fulfilled at the destruction of the temple. 

 

Christs 3 1/2 year ministry - apostles 3 1/2 year ministry after his death = 1 week (covenant confirmed)

Christ was cut of in the midst of the week.  Half way through that week.  Sacrifices and oblations no longer required, for the Lamb was the sacrifice.  After his death, abominations will spread, as spirit of antichrist and evil will grow until the consummation, ....until the 2 Coming when Christ takes dominion and is crowned King of King and Lord of Lords.

Sister

Your numbers are way off.  First of all what is said is from the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes there will be seven - sevens, and sixty - two sevens. (see the order, first the seven, then the sixty two).  It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble.  After the sixty-two sevens, the Anointed One will be cut off.  Here 69 Weeks have pasted.  Then in the future Dan 9:27 - He will confirm a covenant for one seven. 

Montana Marv

Please consider this;

Daniel 9:25   Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.

Do we agree that this totals 69 weeks?

One week is missing right?

Daniel had to wait 1 week before the command came.  There's your missing week.  It's in the beginning, not in the end way into the future. 

It's 70 weeks from when the angel spoke to Daniel, from that day.

Daniel had to wait one week before the command came, can you see now why there is only 69 weeks left?  One week had passed.

I gave my veiw point to Last Daze based on this scripture as simply as I could put it.

I

 

Sister

The final week is in Daniel 9:27  and this follows the first 69 Weeks.  The 7 days the angel delayed is not a seven year period.  I do not agree with you at all.  The 70 Weeks begin with the decree by Cyrus.  There is no missing week.  There are 7 - Sevens, then 62 - Sevens, than a final 1 - Seven (future), and in that order.

So we do not agree at all.  Also, Israel and Jerusalem have not completed the six tasks in the time given.  Going from Unbelief to Belief.

In Christ

Montana Marv

 

[Last Daze]

Maybe this is true.  Maybe it's not.  What's more relevant to me is:

• Who confirms the covenant for seven years?
• Which covenant does he confirm?

Last Daze

As I see it, the one who confirms the covenant, confirms it with many, meaning that there will be others who also confirm the covenant with him.  He also causes the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.

Daniel 9:27.  And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

The little horn will be the one who causes the daily sacrifice to cease.

Daniel 8:9.  And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
 10.  And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
 11.  Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
 12.  And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

I believe the little horn will be the antichrist.

I do not know what the covenant is.

I'm not really clear on what you're suggesting.  Are you saying that  "he" along with "the many" will confirm a covenant for seven years with an unnamed entity?

If you see the "he" as the little horn antichrist, can you point to any scriptures that show the man of sin being involved in a covenant?

[Watching for Jesus]

   I'm not really clear on what you're suggesting.  Are you saying that  "he" along with "the many" will confirm a covenant for seven years with an unnamed entity?

If you see the "he" as the little horn antichrist, can you point to any scriptures that show the man of sin being involved in a covenant?

 

I believe the antichrist along with others (other leaders of the Middle East nations) will all sign a covenant (an agreement) with Israel for 7 years.  The 70th week of Daniel concerns the nation of Israel.

Daniel 9:24.  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city

 

The only scripture concerning the man of sin does not mention a covenant.

2 Thessalonians 2:3.  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 4.  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

It does tell us that the man of sin will sit in the temple and show himself to be God.  This implies that there will be a temple built.

I see this part of Daniel 9:27 (and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate) as meaning that he (the lttle horn, the antichrist) will make the temple desolate.  This implies that the little horn is also the man of sin, the one who makes it (the temple) desolate..

I know no other scriptures that tell us who will stop the daily sacrifice except the little horn, aka the antichrist, who is also the man of sin.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Watching for Jesus

[Last Daze]

   I'm not really clear on what you're suggesting.  Are you saying that  "he" along with "the many" will confirm a covenant for seven years with an unnamed entity?

If you see the "he" as the little horn antichrist, can you point to any scriptures that show the man of sin being involved in a covenant?

 

I believe the antichrist along with others (other leaders of the Middle East nations) will all sign a covenant (an agreement) with Israel for 7 years.  The 70th week of Daniel concerns the nation of Israel.

Daniel 9:24.  Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city

 

The only scripture concerning the man of sin does not mention a covenant.

2 Thessalonians 2:3.  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
 4.  Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

It does tell us that the man of sin will sit in the temple and show himself to be God.  This implies that there will be a temple built.

I see this part of Daniel 9:27 (and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate) as meaning that he (the lttle horn, the antichrist) will make the temple desolate.  This implies that the little horn is also the man of sin, the one who makes it (the temple) desolate..

I know no other scriptures that tell us who will stop the daily sacrifice except the little horn, aka the antichrist, who is also the man of sin.

I'm no Hebrew scholar but the prefix of the word translated "with the many", seems more indicative of "to the many" than "along with the many".  Maybe Retrobyter or another can chime in on that.  

The covenant is never stated to be seven years in length, only confirmed for seven years.

We know that Christ's ministry was spent confirming the new covenant to the many by the things that He taught.  We also know that He put an end to the sacrifices by being the perfect sacrifice.  While the false prophet may mimic some of the things accomplished by Christ, there is never a covenant associated with him, like there is with Jesus.