WHO IS THE BEAST OR WHAT IS THE BEAST AND WHAT IS THE MARK OF THE BEAST?

[thereselittleflower]

       

7 hours ago, Spock said:

Interesting thread here. I'm doing my best to follow it all. I am about half way in and have to stop to write a few thoughts and questions for anyone to jump on:

1. Is Azazel the same person Rev describes as Abbadon or Apollyon in Rev 9 I believe, the dude who comes out of the abyss?

2. How could anyone not think the AC is a person? Daniel 11 seems pretty clear to me, this "man of intrigue..."

3. I'm seeing some people saying the 1260 days can also mean 1260 years and that this time period has already run: 538 AD through 1798, where Napoleon arrested the Pope and locked him up. During this time period, the Papcy killed and tormented many saints, and it is this time period, not the 1260 days in the GT that the bible references. Is this a true statement that some are holding to?

4. Wallid Shoebat is not a true Christian?

I will stop here. I look forward to seeing my points discussed or answered while I continue reading the thread.

Thanks,
Spock

 

You might find this very intersting:

 

https://www.gci.org/bible/rev/beast

 

 

[Marilyn C]

6 hours ago, Spock said:

Thanks Marilyn.  Coming from you, this means a lot to me. 

It absolutely makes sense if you interpret the 7 heads to mean 7 earthly leaders make up this beast out of the sea. Very logical to think one head (one leader) could get shot or stabbed and appear dead, then wa-la....resurrected.  When the world sees this, yes, I could see the world in awe.

Now is this the correct way of interpreting this passage?  Might be.  Hmmmmm. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

Hi Spock,

Just a few thoughts on the `heads.` People wonder are they `individuals`(persons) or nations. Let`s see what God`s word says -

 

Christ is the `Head` of the Body. Head - individual person. (Eph. 1: 22)

King Neb. is the `Head` of gold. Head - individual person. (Dan. 2: 38)

Therefore, I believe the `7 Heads` of the beast (ly government). `5 have fallen, one is & the other has yet to come.` (Rev. 17: 10) Heads - individual persons & consecutive.

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Spock]

would you agree that it could be the head (king, president) of a nation? 

Would you agree that it could be a demonic spirit from the Abyss that is ruling that nation? 

Most commentators have these 7 heads as nations: possibly Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Ottomans, Great Britain......   Are you saying you see these 7 heads as individuals?  Who then? 

I can't recall reading any commentary on Rev 13 that gives me a list of person's names. Thus, if there is a fatal head would to one of these heads, you would think it is one of these nations.

im liking the thinking that shows an EMPIRE BEING SLAIN AND THEN RISING BACK UP, like the Islamic Empire, see Ottoman Turks, that ruled Israel and other nations up until WW1, the ceased. I definitely see they are rising up again in a scary way (ISIS, TURKEY). This makes sense to me to think an EMPIRE is rising again rather than an individual, although I agree, the latter would be pretty cool to behold.  

It even says in Revelation, "one of his heads as if it had been slain..."  This does NOT sound like a person to me.  I know it can't sound like that to you because then you would have to assume the PERSON had 7 heads, which we know is not logical.  So, how do you see this as an individual? 

Thanks,

spock

[WilliamL]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

would you agree that it could be the head (king, president) of a nation? 

Would you agree that it could be a demonic spirit from the Abyss that is ruling that nation? 

Most commentators have these 7 heads as nations: possibly Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, Ottomans, Great Britain......   Are you saying you see these 7 heads as individuals?  Who then?

Go back and read Daniel 10 and 11, which speaks of spiritual "princes/sarim" over nations and kingdoms. Daniel 11 makes it abundantly clear that these spiritual heads operate through earthly kings, possessing these kings one by one as they secede one another throughout the centuries of that spirit-king/dom's dominion.

These heads of the Beast are spiritual rulers, but they are over empires, not mere tribal kingdoms/nation-states. The Beast's heads are trans-national corporate spirits.

Remember the Gadarene demoniac infilled by Legion? Legion spoke as a single unified 'person,' but it said "we are many." Mark 5:9 This is what these corporate Beast's heads are like, but on a vastly greater scale. They are literally corporate group-think bodies, entities of mass consciousness, but represented by one Voice and driven by One collective Will. They are trans-national corporations. These can only be removed from the scene when a greater collective consciousness comes along that breaks them up and absorbs them.

These things are hard to understand for people who think in material terms.

[Marilyn C]

 

Hi Spock,

So again you ask very good questions.

Yes I believe that each Head will be the Head (President...) of the Global Government, each having a turn at office. eg. Next year (end of 2016) the leader of the G 20(China) will be over a very powerful form of Global Government. He will hold office for one year & then another comes in. If you follow that till the 7^th man in office you will reach the final Global Leader. (possible scenario). Will do a thread on that with more details later.

 

Now the `Heads` are individual people & not past nations as all those world Rulers & their nations have been judged. (eg. Dan. 5: 27 & 28)  

The final Gentile Government, ruled by a leader, has to be a person as God is judging mankind`s Government & Ruler, & not the demons, (though they influence it).

The final Global Government is ruled by a person who gets slain but comes to life again.

• Rev. 13: 3 (in the trib.) `` saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, & his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marvelled & followed the beast (ruler)...& he was given a mouth speaking great things & blasphemies,...

   

   

  The Global Government is called by God `the Beast,` & so is it`s Ruler, the `Beast.` It describes their `beastly` nature. We need to read the context to see which is being spoken of at the time. For example in Rev. 13:11, we see another `beast` coming up, & this is obviously an individual who performs great signs when in the presence of the first `beast`, ie Ruler of the GG.

 

King Nebuchadnezzar is the pattern. God told him that he was the Head of gold, the Head of the Babylonian empire. So there is a person who is the Ruler & then there is the kingdom. Each king/ruler of the past (4) world empires have all been made accountable by God & each successive Empire (4) has been judged & now is gone.  

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Marilyn C

[Marilyn C]

THE BEAST.

7 Heads – 7 Rulers of the Global Government who rule in their turn till the 7^th, (A/C).

 

10 Horns, crowned – Horns (power) / crowns (political), 10 kings (Islamic) who give their power to the final Global Ruler of the Global Government. (Rev. 17: 17 - in the 2nd part of the trib.)

 

Mouth (Lion) – Great Power Bloc (with emblem of a Lion / Monarchy / Political) that speaks great words of `peace & safety,` plus disarmament. Also, who have spoken for the world for many years.

 

Body (Leopard) – Great Power Bloc that has economically (the whole body) brought the world together with its philosophy of `free trade` but brings the world to poverty.

 

Feet (Bear) – This great Power Bloc has been reduced to mere `feet,` by God putting `hooks  in its jaws` & judging it on the mountains of Israel, (Ez. 38 & 39).  It has been the cause of much bloodshed over the years.

 

These are my thoughts on the `Beast` Global Government & its Ruler (s).

 

Marilyn.