who actually is responsible for written and creating the Quran ?

[rjp34652]

simpleJeff had the best post in the thread so far.   It's correct as far as everything I've read is concerned.   

It is vitally important that every Christian educate themselves in a basic understanding of Islam because lies about this bunch are everywhere.

For example, many false scholars would have us believe that Islam is the same as Christianity.   If so, then why are so many Christians persecuted with their stories hidden by the American press?   If there is nothing to hide, why are our authorities and journalists working so hard to hide it?

The principle differences between Islam and Christianity are;

- the Qur'an denies that Jesus (Isa as He is called in it's pages) IS the son of God

- the Qur'an denies that Jesus died on the cross

- the Qur'an denies that Jesus' death on the cross paid the penalty for sin (in fact there is no substantive definition of sin in the Qur'an except non-membership)

- the Qur'an denies the resurrection of Jesus from the dead

- denies that a personal relationship with God is possible at all

- the Qur'an is very inconsistent in it's opinion of "the people of the book" meaning Jews and Christians.  In some passages the people of the book are to be embraced as brothers and in other it definitely says that believers (of Islam) should lay in wait and ambush the people of the book with deadly intent.

Islam is the only religion on the planet that sanctions lying.

"Believers when in a weakened stage in a non-Muslim country should forgive and be patient with People of the Book when they insult Allah and his prophet by any means.  Believers should lie to People of the Book to protect their lives and their religion.  

- Ibn Taymiyah "THE SWORD ON THE NECK OF THE ACCUSER OF MUHAMMAD"

Anyone who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in faith - but such as open their breast to unbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful penalty.
- Qur'an Surah 16:106

"Know this that lying is not sin by itself, but if it brings harm to you it could be ugly.  However, you can lie if that will keep you from evil or if it will result in prosperity."  - Imam Al-Ghazali (Muslim theologian and philosopher)

"The principle of sanctioning lying for the cause of Islam bears grave implications in matters relating to the spread of the religion of Islam in the West.  Muslim activists employ deceptive tactics in their attempts to polish Islam's image and make it more attractive to prospective converts."
- Abdullan Al-Araby  (Muslim theologian, philosopher and leader)

There are two formal doctrines of religious deception accepted in Islam:

taqiyya - (concealment) A muslim may lie about what they believe, denying aspects of their faith that are offensive [to others].
          [Qur'an 16:106]  
          Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam by Robert Spencer

kitman - (mental reservation, the telling of partial truth with intention to deceive or mislead)
         "the scholars agreed that if a person is forced into disbelief, it is permissible for him to either go along with them in the interests of self-preservation, 
          or to refuse." - Ibn Kathir
          Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam by Robert Spencer

Islam teaches that salvation is by works.  There is no comprehension or understanding of Grace whatsoever.

Enter into it, then bear (it) patiently, or do not bear (it) patiently, it is the same to you; you shall be requited only (for) what you did.  - Qur'an 52:16

Free will;

Islam originally had three doctrines regarding free will or human autonomy.  They were; Mutazila, Jabriyya and Murjiya.  Mutazila argued on behalf of human autonomy.  Jabriyya argued that the only will in the universe was that of Allah.   Humans are slaves to the will of Allah.  Murjiya argued that judgment should be reserved for Allah alone and that there should be a sort of political neutrality instead of aggression toward unbelievers.

The current broadly accepted doctrine of free will is that there isn't any at all.   It's fatalistic approach is basically the same as Christian Calvinism.

DIVISIONS OF ISLAM

There are two principle divisions of Islam which are contesting with one another today for political and religious control of the world's Muslim population.   They are Sunni and Shia/Shiite.   The Muslim religious civil war today is much like the Christian religious wars of the middle ages in Europe and have similar organization.

Sunni traditionalists believe that those who control the religion ought to be elected from the Prophet's tribe (Quraysh).  The Christian parallel here is western Protestantism although the candidates for 'election' and the electoral process are very dissimilar.   Sunni leadership is politically determined.

Shia traditionalists believe that leadership should not be left for human reason to determine.  Leadership is therefore determined by the Christian equivalent of apostolic succession.  Shiites look for a grand leader in the last days called Mohammad al Mahdi, the twelfth caliph (a caliph was a military leader as well as a religious one).

There is obviously a great deal more to the ancient traditions of Islam and the reader would be well advised to submit to at least a brief study of them.   Reasons for this are the number of lies being perpetuated upon the general population by Muslims as well as the American press which is wholly controlled by corporations who have a financial interest in active commerce with them - certainly not dispensation of truth.

The reader would be well advised to do his or her homework with great diligence to learn the truth.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft... 

[SINNERSAVED]

does the Quran ,go hand in hand with the teachings of  mary in it, I know it mentions Jesus,

but I believe I heard that Mary is in it also, is this correct or did I hear wrong, ?

and if Mary is in it, how did the muslims get that put in there book, for this would be really difficult for me to understand this whole thing, and why would this be ? any one know for sure or could help me with this ?

thank you

[MorningGlory]

22 minutes ago, simplejeff said:

Oldest rumors are that the power behind the rcc in rome / probably a pope/ sent the information needed to start the so-called islam religion in their ((the rcc)) constant effort to take control of Jerusalem.   Hilariously ,  things backfired.

YHWH set the various powers /boundaries/  about as HE Planned all along , and the plans of the wicked one, the devil, will not succeed.

You need a new rumor mill, jeff.  The Qur'an was written by arab scribes after the death of mohammad in 634 A.D.  Mobammad himself was illiterate  and recited the suras of the Qur'an to others who memorized them.  The suras were supposedly revealed in bits and pieces to mohammad by the angel Gabriel, although it was probably a demon instead, starting at age 40.  Islam as a religion was born out of the alleged visits by this angel.  I'd be interested to see your sources for the above information because it is truly mind boggling.  And there's nothing hilarious about islam.

[FreeinChrist]

Many Moslem truely believe that John's Revelation 13:18, is a mistranslation cause by satan as some have attribute the number value to the koran as 666, information can be found just by googling it up.  If I understand right this was widely taught and accepted in the late 1960's and early 1970's.

[*Zion*]

In the last days God will pour His Spirit on all flesh, and we will receive dreams and prophesy.  God has used dreams to communicate even in the OT.  It is satan who is the counterfeit.  he can only copy what he has seen.  That's what happened with these other false religions.  Counterfeit.

[other one]

On 12/24/2015 at 11:38 AM, SINNERSAVED said:

that is some crazy information, other one ? but is it true that for the man that gives his life to killing people and himself, he will go to heaven with all virgins women ,? what exactly is the benefit to take there lives, and what do they say they are promised, I just had to ask , I believe this may be 0ff track, but since you brought it up, what do they get as a kid bomber, as a women , and as a man, do they all get different things promise, if they give up there lives for there cause that kills others , I am not trying to be heartless, or rude, but they have a reason and a goal and they feel there is a reward, of some type,

just like we are told by God everlasting life, in heaven, if we follow , but we go to the grave (hell ) if not, separated from God

somehow I missed this I think.

The young people and the women when they die as Jihad martyrs save their entire families from being in the grave.    We in the western world have made a big thing about the 72 virgins, but from what i read and hear from those involved, it really isn't the 72 virgins that is the main driver.

[rjp34652]

On December 24, 2015 at 10:10 PM, SINNERSAVED said:

I have to ask this question,? I do not know this , but I believe some of you may know the answer , but if we have,

a people that follow allah ,and they have there bible, called the holy Quran, and the Koran,

I was told  there is one for the man and one for the women.

and so the question is a interesting thought ,I had, if they follow allah, ...and jesus is in there bible, and they are opposite of love, it seems to be of hate,

from what I am reading, it seems to be violent from the get Go, but anyway, who is the author ,or who created this book that they follow , for it has prophecy like our bible , but in ways it runs parallel , and it seems to be of opposite view, depending which one you are reading, did scripture from the Christian bible end up in the Quran as well, or was it different apostles ?

is this  a mystery ,of its author, or does anyone know ? I am asking , thank you. but I am only looking for positive feed back, and responses, for this is a serious matter that I am trying, to learn thank you

 

There is a LOT of confusion, some of it deliberate, concerning the Qur'an - one of the scriptural texts of Islam.

Qur'an is an arab word meaning 'recitations'.  

Mohammad [pbuh], the founder of Islam, was an illiterate Arab warlord of the fifth century.  According to tradition, his early years were spent engaged in commerce with traders and merchants.  At that time he heard about the religion of the Jews and the new Christian religion.  Much of this information appears in the Qur'an.  Since Mohammad was illiterate he passed on his revelations as recitations to his disciples.   The early form of the Arab scripture followed the oral tradition.  After his death in 632 AD the recitations were written down for posterity.    But they were not all the same.   Variations existed throughout the growing Muslim empire.

Caliph Uthman gathered the various recitations into a standard version called the Uthman codex.  According to various sources the other versions were destroyed.  The text, however, is known for its inconsistency.   It makes statements in one part and then reverses its position elsewhere.  For example,  in one section the Qur'an says that the "people of the book", Christians and Jews, are to be embraced as brothers.   Elsewhere and in many other places it says that believers (of Islam) should lie in wait so as to ambush and murder "the people of the book" at an opportune moment. 

I have read the entire text of the Qur'an and found it a difficult task.  It doesn't read like any normal book.  Actually it reads like a phone book.  Pretty dull stuff.  Any good book, secular or otherwise, must be consistent to its own theme.  The Qur'an is not.  I work at a college and had the opportunity to question a group of young Muslims about a passage in the Qur'an.   In that book the ayah (1) said that "when the apostle of Allah speaks, one ought to do as he says."   My question to the Muslims was - 'who is the apostle of Allah'.   In Christianity, an apostle is one who went about building and establishing churches, who defined and taught the scripture and who bore witness to the work of God among men.  Who is the apostle of Allah? (2)   The Muslims didn't know.   In fact they told me that I should NOT read the Qur'an, "because it's too confusing".   Those were their words, not mine.

The Muslim religion also acknowledges the texts of the Torah and Christian Bible as holy.  The acknowledgment, however, is pretty thin since they reject most of what is taught there.  Muslims also acknowledge Abraham and Jesus as prophets of God, but again only do so in part.   The major break between Christians and Muslims is THAT MUSLIMS DO NOT ACCEPT JESUS AS THE SON OF GOD, HIS DEATH UPON THE CROSS FOR THE REDEMPTION OF SIN AND HIS RESURRECTION.   In fact, the major doctrine of GRACE in Christianity has no comparative idea in Islam.   One works for one's salvation in Islam.   It is not given.   Allah is said to be merciful, but it has no mercy upon those who aren't believers.   Christ died for sinners so that they might be saved and redeemed.  Islam teaches that unbelievers should be murdered.

There are not separate versions of the Qur'an for men and women although there ARE separate responsibilities and rules for the genders.   The Qur'an states that a man should beat his wife often so as to cause her to remember he is king in his own house.  The Qur'an states that a woman's testimony is worth half that of a man. For a woman to refute rape in a Muslim court, she must have at least three women witnesses to oppose that of one man.

In addition to the Qur'an there are many sacred Muslim texts.   Hadith literature, for example, is often quoted by mullahs.  The hadith is a lot like Jewish kabala.   Hadith literature gives accounts of things said and done by Mohammad not recorded in the Qur'an.  Kabala literature contains things said and done by Moses not recorded in the Talmud.

------------------------------------------

The primary difference between Islam and other religions of the world is that ISLAM IS THE ONLY RELIGION IN THE WORLD THAT APPROVES OF LYING.

--------------------------------------

"Believers when in a weakened stage in a non-Muslim country should forgive and be patient with People of the Book when they insult Allah and his prophet by any means.  Believers should lie to People of the Book to protect their lives and their religion."
- Ibn Taymiyah "THE SWORD ON THE NECK OF THE ACCUSER OF MUHAMMAD"

Anyone who, after accepting faith in Allah, utters unbelief, except under compulsion, his heart remaining firm in faith - but such as open their breast to unbelief, on them is wrath from Allah, and theirs will be a dreadful penalty.
- Qur'an Surah 16:106

"Know this that lying is not sin by itself, but if it brings harm to you it could be ugly.  However, you can lie if that will keep you from evil or if it will result in prosperity."
- Imam Al-Ghazali (Muslim theologian and philosopher)

"The principle of sanctioning lying for the cause of Islam bears grave implications in matters relating to the spread of the religion of Islam in the West.  Muslim activists employ deceptive tactics in their attempts to polish Islam's image and make it more attractive to prospective converts."
- Abdullan Al-Araby  (Muslim theologian, philosopher and leader)

2 doctrines of religious deception:
taqiyya - (concealment) A muslim may lie about what they believe, denying aspects of their faith that are offensive [to others].
          [Qur'an 16:106]  
          Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam by Robert Spencer

kitman - (mental reservation, the telling of partial truth with intention to deceive or mislead)
         "the scholars agreed that if a person is forced into disbelief, it is permissible for him to either go along with them in the interests of self-preservation, or to refuse." - Ibn Kathir
       Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam by Robert Spencer

There's a great deal more to say about this complex religion, but I hope what I've given you today is sufficient to answer a few basic questions about the reality and truth of Islamic scripture and doctrine.

and that's me, hollering from the choir loft...

(1) The Qur'an is arranged in chapters called SURAs and verses called AYAHs.  It is of one complete section, not divided into parts like the OT and the NT of the Christian Bible.

(2) The apostle of Allah is Muhammad [pbuh].   He is prophet as well as apostle.

[SINNERSAVED]

okay , I am trying to find the origin to the making and publishing of the Quran , it seems to have a little of bible in it, a little of history or future revelation in it for there use, and its got a little catholic sound in it, but if you put all that together, its what it looks like,

so who created this book , and what was the motive and how it got followed to be  where it is today ?

[other one]

1 hour ago, SINNERSAVED said:

okay , I am trying to find the origin to the making and publishing of the Quran , it seems to have a little of bible in it, a little of history or future revelation in it for there use, and its got a little catholic sound in it, but if you put all that together, its what it looks like,

so who created this book , and what was the motive and how it got followed to be  where it is today ?

I hope you realize that whole books are written on your questions...  The Quran was channeled to Mohammad by a fallen angel over many years.    Mohammad wrote each of the visits on strips of paper and put them into a jar. 

After Mohammad's death his teachings were just word of mouth for a few years until they opened the jar and started putting the paper strips together.    Not knowing the order they were written in they just put them into the Quran from the longest of them to the shortest.     And it is a jumbled up mess unless you read them in chronological order.  Between 650 and 656 the third Caliph Uthman ibn Affan caused the text of the Qur'an (Koran) to be codified. He placed Zayd ibn Thabit (Zaid Ibn Thabit), the personal scribe of Prophet Muhammad , in charge of the project.

However there are two other sets of books that are considered teachings also.   The hadiths.    Bukhari is the one that is relied on the most and is considered second only to the Quran as to Islamic tradition.   It is a writing of the things that people remembered Mohammad saying.   There are other hadiths, but I am not familiar with the others.

[SINNERSAVED]

11 minutes ago, other one said:

I hope you realize that whole books are written on your questions...  The Quran was channeled to Mohammad by a fallen angel over many years.    Mohammad wrote each of the visits on strips of paper and put them into a jar. 

After Mohammad's death his teachings were just word of mouth for a few years until they opened the jar and started putting the paper strips together.    Not knowing the order they were written in they just put them into the Quran from the longest of them to the shortest.     And it is a jumbled up mess unless you read them in chronological order.  Between 650 and 656 the third Caliph Uthman ibn Affan caused the text of the Qur'an (Koran) to be codified. He placed Zayd ibn Thabit (Zaid Ibn Thabit), the personal scribe of Prophet Muhammad , in charge of the project.

However there are two other sets of books that are considered teachings also.   The hadiths.    Bukhari is the one that is relied on the most and is considered second only to the Quran as to Islamic tradition.   It is a writing of the things that people remembered Mohammad saying.   There are other hadiths, but I am not familiar with the others.

I was thumbing through the web  links, and came across this, would this be  a real  and valid observation, or is it fable ?

check it out tell me what you think? thank you

http://www.redicecreations.com/specialreports/2006/04apr/catholicislam.html