The beast that goes into Perdition

[Omegaman 3.0]

5 hours ago, MorningGlory said:

Scripture is clear to all who have the Holy Spirit.  So what does that say about those that view the Bible as a mystery?

So, what should we conclude? If scripture is clear to all who have the Holy Spirit, and two people disagree about something in scripture, and both say "scripture clearly teaches" or even "I believe that scripture teaches", wouldn't that indicate that at least one of these persons does not have the Holy Spirit?

When I see someone make that statement that "scripture is clear to those who have the scripture", I tend to understand that as equivalent to saying: "since we disagree, one (or both) of us is unsaved". 

Paul said:

For there must also be factions among you, so that those who are approved may become evident among you.

So, my question would be, how would you know, which person has God's approval? It appears to me that everyone always thinks that it is the other person who is wrong, since each believes themselves to have the Spirit, and each believes they themselves to be correct, after all, scripture is clear to them.

How well would it sit with people, if I said: "I believe in a post-trib rapture and that God chooses those He will save from before the foundation of the world, and anyone who disagrees with me, lacks the Holy Spirit and is therefore unsaved"?

I doubt many would be comfortable with such a statement, yet that is what I read between the lines in the notion that scripture is clear to those with the Spirit. Care to explain why that is not a reasonable understanding or implication?

To the second part I quoted:

" So what does that say about those that view the Bible as a mystery?"

First, you should explain what you mean by the word mystery. The word as used in the New Testament, means something no longer hidden, something revealed. In that sense, I believe that yes, the Bible is a mystery, it is a revelation. Many, in modern terminology, think of a mystery as something unknown, something to be solved. That can also be true. of the Bible:

"Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is."

Surely there are things that are not yet revealed, things we will know eventually. Those are mysteries, or will become mysteries, depending on which definition of mystery one uses.

It seems as though, we disagree because the Bible is not always clear. Even to those who have the Holy Spirit. 

"12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known."

[simplejeff]

Om,  it is written perfectly clear  that Yahweh gives discernment, wisdom, knowledge, along with salvation , peace, joy AND RIGHTEOUSNESS.   The Bible is, on purpose, clear enough as Jesus says for little children to understand it.((as they have for 2000 years, opposing this wicked world, being set apart by Yahweh and keeping themselves "unstained by the world"  )).

No hanky panky .

[Spock]

Does anyone want me to judge this debate- winner take all? I do tend to live up to my name you know- Spock, the logical one. 

And even though I'm not a fan of a lot of RCC dogma and traditions, and even though I have a soft spot in my heart for anyone born or living in the land down under, I promise to be impartial.

let me know if you need my unique gifts and talents to settle this dispute.

Simply,

Spock 

[n2thelight]

16 hours ago, Spock said:

im sure there is a connection between the "beast that goes into perdition" and "head covering" somewhere, but I'm too tired to find it.  Let me know when you guys get back to discussing the beast.

thanks,

spock

The covering of the head is because of the angels,the angels that get kicked out of heaven along with the beast,who is satan,who is also the son of perdition...

 

Chapter 6 of Gen explains what the angels(fallen)did to the daughters of man,it also explains what Christ meant on a deeper level,when He said as in the days of Noah

 

It's real deep to me,it's like whats meant when stated there comes a time when we need to get off the milk.So let's start with the angels

 

Genesis 6:1 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,"

 

Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

 

Genesis 6:4 "There were (giants) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same become mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Sons of God explained below

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append23.html

 

This ties back to what Paul and Christ said.First Paul

 

I Corinthians 11:10 "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

 

Paul dos'nt want us to be deceived as Eve was....The angels are coming back

 

Now Christ

 

Matthew 24:37 "But as the days of Noe were so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Again Gen 6 explains what was happening in the days of Noah

 

Now lets go up a few verses,for a very misunderstood verse

 

Matthew 24:19 "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

 

Many take the above to mean,it's gonna be bad for people with children,however that's not what it's talking about....

 

Remember what Paul said about being presented as a virgin.What this verse is saying is that when Christ returns and you are with child,you have been unfaithful,spiritually speaking you did'nt wait on your husband,who is Christ instead you were suduced by satan pretending to be Christ

 

It's like you being married and your husband left for a few years and when he came back you were pregnant,so who's child is it?

 

I said all that to say,the beast whom is satan as well as the son of perdition who is also satan along with his angels are coming back,it would be wise of you to know this,so as you won't be deceived(pregnant)when the true Christ returns...............

 

 

[n2thelight]

19 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

• Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

    אִישׁ

  1) A man ...

  In like manner — (i) 
  a man of God, 
  i. q. a ser\'aut and minister of God ; of angels, Jud. 
  1 3 : 6, 8 ;

 

it's not using "man" in its literal sense, but of angels here.   You would have to be able to demonstrate conclusively that the use of the word "man" when it comes to "man of sin" must mean satan.    Where in Daniel 9:21 we can most definitely demonstrate it refers to a known angel, BY NAME,  the same can't be definitively demonstrated about the use of the word "man" in association with "satan" anywhere.  The name "satan" is never tied to the word "man" like Gabriel is by name.

Words have different usages. Just because it is used this way here, that doesn't mean one can assume it is used the same way in a different context.

Think Im done with the meaning of man,however I still say the man of sin,as well as the son of perdition is satan

II Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

 

Only satan himself will do the above...

 

Scripture even tells us when

 

Revelation 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time."

 

This is the tribulation and as one should see it is the wrath of satan,not of God.....

 

[gdemoss]

Son of perdition or condemnation.  Want to underatand?  

Look at what it means to be a son by the word sonic.  Doesn't sonic means that which pertains to sound?  YES!

For he said their sound went even unto the ends of the earth.

For God said.....and it was.

In the beginning was the word and the word was God....God created all things through him....and God said!

We hear then we do through our 'thought' or 'taught' system.

Let him who has ears to hear, hear!

We have been given the power (Spirit) to become the sons (sonic) of God.  We all speak (make sound of words) by a spirit.

What shall we say then of this beast?  Who is his father?  What will he sound like?  And what shall he say of his father? 

Perdition is an end.  His ways all lead to destruction.  His sons (he has many) all say the same thing.  Yes we can.  

God said, lean not unto your own understanding and the ways that seem right to a man are the ways to death or perdition.  Therefore I declare that they will see problems and rely upon themselves for salvation (climate change) and what they do to save themselves will destroy them.

The Self Existent One Is Salvation!  I AM THAT I AM.  May we all place our faith in Him that can because he said in and of ourselves we cannot!

[Sister]

On 8/2/2016 at 2:11 AM, thereselittleflower said:

10 hours ago, n2thelight said:

The covering of the head is because of the angels,the angels that get kicked out of heaven along with the beast,who is satan,who is also the son of perdition...

 

Chapter 6 of Gen explains what the angels(fallen)did to the daughters of man,it also explains what Christ meant on a deeper level,when He said as in the days of Noah

 

It's real deep to me,it's like whats meant when stated there comes a time when we need to get off the milk.So let's start with the angels

 

Genesis 6:1 "And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,"

 

Genesis 6:2 "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose."

 

Genesis 6:4 "There were (giants) in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same become mighty men which were of old, men of renown."

Sons of God explained below

http://www.angelfire.com/nv/TheOliveBranch/append23.html

 

This ties back to what Paul and Christ said.First Paul

 

I Corinthians 11:10 "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels."

II Corinthians 11:2 "For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ."

II Corinthians 11:3 "But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

 

Paul dos'nt want us to be deceived as Eve was....The angels are coming back

 

Now Christ

 

Matthew 24:37 "But as the days of Noe were so shall also the coming of the Son of man be."

Again Gen 6 explains what was happening in the days of Noah

 

Now lets go up a few verses,for a very misunderstood verse

 

Matthew 24:19 "And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

 

Many take the above to mean,it's gonna be bad for people with children,however that's not what it's talking about....

 

Remember what Paul said about being presented as a virgin.What this verse is saying is that when Christ returns and you are with child,you have been unfaithful,spiritually speaking you did'nt wait on your husband,who is Christ instead you were suduced by satan pretending to be Christ

 

It's like you being married and your husband left for a few years and when he came back you were pregnant,so who's child is it?

 

I said all that to say,the beast whom is satan as well as the son of perdition who is also satan along with his angels are coming back,it would be wise of you to know this,so as you won't be deceived(pregnant)when the true Christ returns...............

 

 

 

Gary

I want to share with you my view on a woman covering her head.  I have really being praying about this before I answer because it has always got me STUMPED!

The man is the glory of God.  The woman is the glory of man.  God has made woman for the man so there is order.  A woman's place is not above the man.

So when a woman prophesies or prays she is to humble herself before the Lord.  By covering her head, she is not displaying her glory on her head (presenting herself with nice well set hair), for she is to come as who she is and not a woman of the world, but a child of God.

When her head is covered, she is not just presenting herself as a woman, beneath man, but equal as a child of God.  In the spirit world there is no male and female.  When we pray or prophecy, we step into Zion, God's holy City, (his realm) and it's the same laws for both man and woman and that is the things of the spirit.  There is no separation there.

I noticed a lot of women preachers on t.v. with makeup and beautiful hair.  I don't think God likes this for it is mixing spiritual things with the worldly.  The woman needs to humble herself and hide her attractiveness for God does not want people admiring her for her outward beauty, because she has stepped into Zion where there can be no vanity.

This covering on her head protects her from the bad angels.  If vanity is found in her, she leaves herself open to be corrupted.  This is where the bad angels can get a foothold in her spirit.  The spirit has to be true worship.

Any woman joined with the world is still in Babylon, caring for the things of the world, and not for God.

This is how I understand it brother.  A woman has to be most holy when approaching the Lord and humble herself.

 

 1 Timothy 2:9   In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;

  1 Peter 3:3   Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;

 

 

 

 

Edited February 11, 2016 by Sister
was supposed to be for gdemoss

[Omegaman 3.0]

16 hours ago, n2thelight said:

Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come [it will not be], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;"

II Thessalonians 2:4 "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

 

Only satan himself will do the above...

Not stating this as my opinion, but . . . 

Why not a man, who is Satan possessed? We know of one case, in John 13:27, and that man, coincidentally, is also called son of perdition, in John 17:12. Just something to think about, as long as you are speculating along these lines.

[other one]

5 minutes ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Not stating this as my opinion, but . . . 

Why not a man, who is Satan possessed? We know of one case, in John 13:27, and that man, coincidentally, is also called son of perdition, in John 17:12. Just something to think about, as long as you are speculating along these lines.

OM, just a thought....   if this person was possessed by satan, could we say that he was given the power of the dragon when it really was the dragon itself....     Something just doesn't click with me on that...

 

Just from my personal experience with them, I don't see satan bringing himself down to the level of possessing anyone human.  It's hard to explain why.

[n2thelight]

5 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

Not stating this as my opinion, but . . .

Why not a man, who is Satan possessed? We know of one case, in John 13:27, and that man, coincidentally, is also called son of perdition, in John 17:12. Just something to think about, as long as you are speculating along these lines.

How would satan deceive the world into thinking he's Christ if he's in a mortal(flesh) body.Also one must remember he's being kicked out with all of his angels,do you think they will all possess men as well...