Soaking Sessions

[thereselittleflower]

7 minutes ago, Ezra said:

A session where you get "soaked" (many interpretations).

I just cringe a bit at the term.

 

When we go to "soak" in the bathtub, our focus is on us, not what we soak in.

"soaking" puts attention of self.   We do it to make ourselves feel better.  It is centered on self.   It is a very self indulgent act.

 

Christianity is not about self indulgence.   It is about self denial.     We must be very, very careful that we do not try to use the Holy Spirit for self indulgence.

When we come to God, we are to be God centered, not self centered, and herein do I fear lies one of the subtle and dangerous errors of engaging in this practice.   The Holy Spirit is not a something to be used, but a Someone to be loved and adored and worshiped with the Father and the Son.

 

 

 

[Ezra]

42 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

I just cringe a bit at the term.

When we go to "soak" in the bathtub, our focus is on us, not what we soak in.

"soaking" puts attention of self.   We do it to make ourselves feel better.  It is centered on self.   It is a very self indulgent act.

Christianity is not about self indulgence.   It is about self denial.     We must be very, very careful that we do not try to use the Holy Spirit for self indulgence.

When we come to God, we are to be God centered, not self centered, and herein do I fear lies one of the subtle and dangerous errors of engaging in this practice.   The Holy Spirit is not a something to be used, but a Someone to be loved and adored and worshiped with the Father and the Son.

Therese,

This post of yours makes perfect sense and I agree 100%. 

[Pamelasv]

21 hours ago, ethrayn said:

 

I consider reading the bible out loud for many hours a soaking session.  One day I read the bible all day out loud and still felt all peaceful the next day.  Nice.

[other one]

34 minutes ago, Pamelasv said:

I consider reading the bible out loud for many hours a soaking session.  One day I read the bible all day out loud and still felt all peaceful the next day.  Nice.

I usually listen to it instead of reading....   reading long periods of time has, for the past couple of years, made my eyes hurt a lot.

[Qnts2]

19 hours ago, thereselittleflower said:

I just cringe a bit at the term.

 

When we go to "soak" in the bathtub, our focus is on us, not what we soak in.

"soaking" puts attention of self.   We do it to make ourselves feel better.  It is centered on self.   It is a very self indulgent act.

 

Christianity is not about self indulgence.   It is about self denial.     We must be very, very careful that we do not try to use the Holy Spirit for self indulgence.

When we come to God, we are to be God centered, not self centered, and herein do I fear lies one of the subtle and dangerous errors of engaging in this practice.   The Holy Spirit is not a something to be used, but a Someone to be loved and adored and worshiped with the Father and the Son.

 

 

 

Christianity is not about self indulgence, but it is also not about self denial. Self denial puts the thoughts on self.

  

[thereselittleflower]

27 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Christianity is not about self indulgence, but it is also not about self denial. Self denial puts the thoughts on self.

  

If Christianity is not about self denial, then that would logically mean Jesus got it wrong.

But Jesus said:

• Matthew 16

  Take Up Your Cross
  24Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…

 

Self denial is central to the Christian faith.

Yes, self denial does focus us on ourselves to a certain extent.  One has to be aware of self in order to be able to deny self, but that is no more than we must be aware of self in our everyday life.

There is a difference of being having our thoughts be on ourselves and being self indulgent.    And even in self denial we must be careful not to think too much of ourselves or we can get off balance in that direction too.

But to say Christianity is not about self denial when Jesus puts it front and center as such a promiment and necessary requirement for following Him is to make a very grave error about what Christianity is.  

 

Without self denial there is no following Jesus, so logically speaking without self denial there is no Christianity.

 

 

 

[Willa]

There is nothing wrong in retreating to fast and pray, and to read or listen to God's Word.  Jesus did this as well after He had been overwhelmed with ministry.  The danger comes when this is made into the newest experience, the latest thing God is doing, the place where God is moving and you go chase such things like the Toranto experience or the deliverance from generational curses. 

Often God wants us to be giving quality time to our families instead, and to demonstrate God's love and purity to them.   

Jesus continually practiced self denial by doing and saying only what the Father gave Him.  This was heard most clearly at Gesthsemane when He prayed , Let this cup pass from me, Nevertheless, not my will be done, but Thine.  

[Qnts2]

7 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

If Christianity is not about self denial, then that would logically mean Jesus got it wrong.

But Jesus said:

 

• Matthew 16

  Take Up Your Cross
  24Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…

 

Self denial is central to the Christian faith.

Yes, self denial does focus us on ourselves to a certain extent.  One has to be aware of self in order to be able to deny self, but that is no more than we must be aware of self in our everyday life.

There is a difference of being having our thoughts be on ourselves and being self indulgent.    And even in self denial we must be careful not to think too much of ourselves or we can get off balance in that direction too.

But to say Christianity is not about self denial when Jesus puts it front and center as such a promiment and necessary requirement for following Him is to make a very grave error about what Christianity is.  

 

Without self denial there is no following Jesus, so logically speaking without self denial there is no Christianity.

 

 

 

Christianity is not about self denial at all. The verse you quoted is not about self denial.

Self denial begins with the term 'self'. That should be a hint. Like self indulgence, it is about self.

Self denial is the denial of one's own interests and needs; self-sacrifice. Christianity is not about that at all. In Christianity, the indwelling Holy Spirit changes a person so that their interests become God's interests. For Christians, their minds are renewed, to come into agreement with Jesus. So, there is not self denial. The desires match God's desires, so there is nothing about self which needs to be denied.

A person believes on God to satisfy their needs just as God said He would.  So, there is not denial of needs, but rather faith.

A person who is trying to look like what they think God wants, would try to be in self denial, but in reality, they are not doing what God really wants. God sent the Holy Spirit to conform a person to Jesus, not to do it by ones own effort. If a person practices self denial, their mind is on the works they are doing rather the truly on God. Many people who practice self denial are more then willing to tell everyone all that they are 'giving up' for God. It is a form of boasting in themselves. 

[thereselittleflower]

17 minutes ago, Qnts2 said:

Christianity is not about self denial at all. The verse you quoted is not about self denial.

Self denial begins with the term 'self'. That should be a hint. Like self indulgence, it is about self.

Self denial is the denial of one's own interests and needs; self-sacrifice. Christianity is not about that at all. In Christianity, the indwelling Holy Spirit changes a person so that their interests become God's interests. For Christians, their minds are renewed, to come into agreement with Jesus. So, there is not self denial. The desires match God's desires, so there is nothing about self which needs to be denied.

A person believes on God to satisfy their needs just as God said He would.  So, there is not denial of needs, but rather faith.

A person who is trying to look like what they think God wants, would try to be in self denial, but in reality, they are not doing what God really wants. God sent the Holy Spirit to conform a person to Jesus, not to do it by ones own effort. If a person practices self denial, their mind is on the works they are doing rather the truly on God. Many people who practice self denial are more then willing to tell everyone all that they are 'giving up' for God. It is a form of boasting in themselves. 

Definition of Self Denial:

• self-de·ni·al
  noun

   

  1. the denial of one's own interests and needs; self-sacrifice.

     synonyms:

     self-sacrifice, selflessness, unselfishness; More

You said:

• Quote

  Self denial is the denial of one's own interests and needs; self-sacrifice. Christianity is not about that at all.

   

Actually that is exactly the opposite of what Jesus said in Matthew 16:24

• Matthew 16

  Take Up Your Cross
  24Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…

The Greek word that is translated  "he must deny" actually means exactly what you say it doesn't mean:

• ἀπαρνέομαι aparnéomai, ap-ar-neh'-om-ahee; from G575 and G720; to deny utterly, i.e. disown, abstain:—deny.

and "himself" means exactly that:

• ἑαυτοῦ heautoû, heh-ow-too'; from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive case (dative case or accusative case) of G846; him- (her-, it-, them-, also (in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons) my-, thy-, our-, your-) self (selves), etc.:—alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own(-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them(-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).

 

"he must deny himself" is given in the Imperative Mood, which means it is a COMMAND, not a suggestion, and so not optional.

• The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

 

To not engage in self denial as commanded by Jesus our Lord and God, is to engage in a passivity towards ourselves that we are never called to engage in as Christians, whch the enemy of our souls would be quite happy with, for it means we are not obeying our Lord.

 

 

 

 

[Qnts2]

27 minutes ago, thereselittleflower said:

Definition of Self Denial:

• self-de·ni·al
  noun

   

  1. the denial of one's own interests and needs; self-sacrifice.

     synonyms:

     self-sacrifice, selflessness, unselfishness; More

You said:

•  

Actually that is exactly the opposite of what Jesus said in Matthew 16:24

• Matthew 16

  Take Up Your Cross
  24Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25"For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.…

The Greek word that is translated  "he must deny" actually means exactly what you say it doesn't mean:

• ἀπαρνέομαι aparnéomai, ap-ar-neh'-om-ahee; from G575 and G720; to deny utterly, i.e. disown, abstain:—deny.

and "himself" means exactly that:

• ἑαυτοῦ heautoû, heh-ow-too'; from a reflexive pronoun otherwise obsolete and the genitive case (dative case or accusative case) of G846; him- (her-, it-, them-, also (in conjunction with the personal pronoun of the other persons) my-, thy-, our-, your-) self (selves), etc.:—alone, her (own, -self), (he) himself, his (own), itself, one (to) another, our (thine) own(-selves), + that she had, their (own, own selves), (of) them(-selves), they, thyself, you, your (own, own conceits, own selves, -selves).

 

"he must deny himself" is given in the Imperative Mood, which means it is a COMMAND, not a suggestion, and so not optional.

• The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

 

To not engage in self denial as commanded by Jesus our Lord and God, is to engage in a passivity towards ourselves that we are never called to engage in as Christian, whch the enemy of our souls would be quite happy with, for it means we are not obeying our Lord.

 

 

 

 

The statement by Jesus was given to the disciples. The statement was made before the New Covenant, before the giving of the Holy Spirit, and before Christianity. Christianity does not teach self denial, it teaches a new creation, continuing sanctification, being conformed to Jesus, and having a renewed mind, all by the work of the Holy Spirit. 

The enemy of Christian souls would like nothing more then a bunch of people claiming to be Christians to engage in self denial, since the focus becomes self rather then God. Self denial ignores Jesus work on the cross, death, resurrection and gift of the Holy Spirit. Self denial is religion, but not Christianity. 

Buddhism practices self denial. Asceticism is practiced by Islam, and Hinduism also. 

Added: The definition from Stongs,

to forget one's self, lose sight of one's self and one's own interests

Self denial is not forgetting one's self, it is focusing on self and denying what self wants.