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Who is The 7th Kingdom Beast (and 8th) of Rev?

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Rev 17:  “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come

Revelation was written nearly 2000 years ago. At that time 5 of the 7 heads had already fallen, and one already existed. Surely this places at least 6 of the heads into a historical context?

The info about the five fallen etc, is to be taken in the context of the time of the last beast as currently revealed to John in the vision, and it is not applied to the time that John was living in.

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The woman sits on a beast, which if read correctly, the beast is all of the people of the world, verse 15, and just not some minor sect with an Antichrist person or power, or even government. The ten horns are ten rulerships representing the political powers of all the people of the world at that time. These will turn against the whore - the Papacy, once they realize they have been lied to. See verse 16.

Verse 2: "with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication"...and the inhabitants have been made drunk with her false doctrines. All the kings of the earth and the people are involved in this, it is not Saddam, or some mythical creature hiding in the new Jewish temple, or some fictitious building like that. 

The last beast (the 8th) rises out of the bottomless pit, just like the one in chapter 11, which incidentally is the one by which it is identified with and counted into the 7, to make 7 out of the 8 beasts.

To prove that the whole world, especially commerce, is tied to the Papacy, read chapter 18, a fulfillment of James 5.

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Seventh kingdom is the ten nations that sign the Covenant that stops the Mid East War, upcoming,

The eighth kingdom is Russia who destroys three of these war mongering signees and takes over the world...aka AC

 

SEE http://www.davidjayjordan.com/UpcomingTenNationWorldGovernment.html

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On 4/14/2016 at 2:53 PM, Davidjayjordan said:

Seventh kingdom is the ten nations that sign the Covenant that stops the Mid East War, upcoming,

The eighth kingdom is Russia who destroys three of these war mongering signees and takes over the world...aka AC

 

The seventh is the last kingdom, so we can safely choose from any of today's kingdoms, if we believe that we are living in end times.

Rev 17:10, In the context of viewing this last beast the angel says "Five are fallen, one is and the other is not yet..." And he makes the connection of this one to one of the seven, specifically as coming out of the bottomless pit.

There are two beasts with the same origin. The only other beast out of the bottomless pit is mentioned in Revelation 11. And it comes up after the reign of the Papacy around the 1790's AD. This was revolutionary France, which became the root of communism.

Communism spread around the world, and in its last stages changes its tactics from direct violence to indirect violence and deception. All nations in the world, are pressured through strange anti terrorist laws to become fully communist, all draconian laws intact. Freedom is gone and we work harder each year.

The old communism is 'apparently' gone and the new style lives on in all countries. The red beast on which the old whore, the Papacy rides, is the whole world, pretending to be safe, but ready to condemn and imprison the innocent. Remember the new laws allow you to be strip searched, arrested and imprisoned indefinitely, purely on the suspicion that you are an enemy of the state. This works perfectly in favor of the mark of the beast.

Who is the other beast which coexists with this one? It has to be a world power which began around the time of the end of the Papacy. We have already labelled France, but it is certainly not the world power until now. The United States of America. Whatever it does is predicted by the prophecy found in Revelation 13, the second beast which comes up after the Papacy. See what it does and how it is achieved.

As for counting the beasts, as the link provided. Count the number of beasts in Daniel and Revelation. Egypt and Assyria don't come into it, even though Babylon was Assyrian. 

Going by the prophecies alone, here are the beasts - Babylon, Persia, Greece, Rome, Papacy, France, America, Communism. That is eight altogether, but the 8th is of the 7, Communism is linked to revolutionary France, both out of the bottomless pit. If you have any doubts, read up on the bloodshed of these two beasts. It is horrendous.

The Papacy is fallen as a political power, but it reigns over the kings of the earth. So the little horn continues right until the end, and as a church it is represented in vision as the old whore riding the red beast.

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On 3/5/2016 at 5:19 AM, Watching for Jesus said:

 

 

 This is the seventh king; the little horn, the antichrist.  He will continue for a short space; 42 months (Revelation 13:5) during the “tribulation period”.

 

The 42 months are not applied to the last beast or the seventh, but to the fifth, the beast of Revelation 13.

This time is mentioned in a few places and is applied to the same beast, in the same era. Check them all out and compare.

The Papacy ruled for 1260 years. Three and a half years, 3.5 x 360 = 1260, 42 months of 30 days = 1260. Note that Revelation 12 puts this time frame after the ascent of Christ to heaven, and before Satan's last effort to kill the saints.

The saints were persecuted by the dragon, and after that the remnant of the saints are persecuted in the last days. The dragon went after Christ - what world Kingdom was that if not Rome? And what power was Roman, killing the saints and reigning for 1260 years but the church of Rome?

What power is behind the persecution of the saints in the last days except the church of Rome? Which had a "wound that was healed," and "all the world wondered after the beast which had the deadly wound and lived."

(There is no specified prophetic time of tribulation for the future. All specific prophecies of time ended when the 2300 days expired. That was the last one. See Revelation 10:6 & 7. After that it is an intense time to be ready for the return of Christ and the end of the world.)

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On 2/29/2016 at 3:13 PM, Spock said:

 

REV 17: This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction.          Notice, 7 heads= 7hills= 7 kingdoms

Rev 13:  The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority. 3One of the heads of the beast seemed to have had a fatal wound, but the fatal wound had been healed. The whole world was filled with wonder and followed the beast.

Most prophecy buffs say this: THE 5 WHO HAVE FALLEN: 1. Egypt 2. Assyria 3. Babylon 4. Media- Persia 5 Greece THE ONE WHO IS:  6. Rome

THE ONE WHO HAS YET TO COME:

7.  ?????????   I assume this beast empire already has come, and it appears he will return in some form or fashion.  Did you notice that the beast that "now is not" also will be the 8th!  The fatal head would has been healed!!!! 

So who do you think fits the description?  Who has had their day once (persecuted Israel) and will once again rise up to persecute Israel and be the 8th (fatal head would healed)? 

A.   The Turks or Muslims.  The Ottoman Turks did rule over the Mid East for over 400 years until WWI.  They certainly persecuted Israel, just like everyone else on this list. 

B.  Nazi Germany:  Hitlers Third Reich certainly persecuted the Jews, and isn't there  something in the Bible that says the 7th will rule for a short time?  Is it possible that the demon spirit that ruled over Hitler might be released from the Abyss to rule over the 7th? 

C.  A revived EU?  I'm not sure where 10 kings will come from Europe, but I'm sure some of you have answers. 

D. A revived Roman Empire:  this seems unlikely to me because that means they would be the 6th, 7th, and 8th empire. 

E.   ??????  Fill in the blank.  Dont forget, the 8th is of the 7th, so how do you see this play out?  Thanks, spock

 

 

First of all we need to step away from Rome as a possible candiate for the final empire and here's why:

A revived Roman Empire is not the last dominating empire. In fact, Rome has little to do with the final empire, other than maybe bowing to the beast and encouraging all good Catholics to do likewise. Rome has no place in the statute seen in the book of Daniel. There are many reason for this but four are really evident. First, the three empires from the statue were ruled by a king. Rome was a republic from it's inception. The leaders of the three nations that are identified by Daniel all ruled their empires from Babylon. Rome did not. Related to this, all three empires occupied the same territory in terms of geography. Rome did not. Further, the leaders of these nations that ruled the same area in succession changed the culture of the conquered people to the worship of their own gods. Again, Rome did not. This is well documented in the bible and secular histories. We have very different facts concerning the Gold, Brass and Silver empires and Rome: The precious metals ruled toward the east, Rome was west and north; The precious metal capitols were in Babylon, Rome's capitol was not; The precious metal empires changed the culture of the conquered nations where Rome embraced the different cultures and traditions, as long as those cultures valued commerce and peace.

There is also an idea that the empires of the statue all persecuted the people of God. In this way end of the age teachers can force several former empires in to a statue that only has four empires, as clearly revealed by the interpretation of the dream. In a search of the history this is not true. The Jews were in Egypt for decades under the rule of Joseph, a son of Israel, and were not persecuted. Only after a pharaoh came to power that didn't know Joseph were the Jews then viewed as possible allies to the enemies of Egypt. They had their own land in Goshen and were a part of daily life, academia and government in Egypt and were only persecuted towards the end of their time in Egypt. This was due to their larger population and the fear of Pharaoh they may become an enemy, but not because of their belief in God.

The same goes for Rome. The Jews were a part of Roman life much like they were in Egypt. Rome was a progressive republic that valued peace, commerce and expansion. They knew that peace and fair laws promoted commerce and there more productive the empire, the more revenue there was for expansion and excess. The truth is it was the Jews that were persecuting christians in the first century, with the backing of the local Roman rulers. Remember how Pilate wanted to show the Jews a kindness and ordered Jesus to be beaten and put to death? That was at the behest of the Jews; Pilate originally found no fault in Jesus.  Honestly no ruling power is going to show a kindness to a persecuted people. Also, the Jews were worshiping God in the Temple in Roman controlled Israel. The first type of persecution should have been on religious grounds but that was not happening to the Jews in Rome. 

Many relate the verse "They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while." Rev 17:10, with the great statue from Daniel 2. First, there are only 4 empires in the statue and as such two empires must be forced into the interpretation of Rev 17:10. Second, Rev 4:1 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." This means everything spoken from this point occurs hereafter. The only conclusion is that the 7 kings from Rev 17:10 are yet future from the moment the prophecy was spoken. That leaves Assyria, Egypt and Rome orphaned as they do not fit the very distinct profile of the precious metal kingdoms, nor do they come hereafter. They are not a part of either Daniel 2 or Rev 17:10.

In a study of the history of the precious metal kingdoms and the Roman Empire there are great differences. So great in fact Rome must be excluded from consideration as a prophecy related end of the age empire.

Here is an interesting news bit from Graeme Wood in the New Republic:

ISIS almost certainly has a successor in mind. But the supply of caliphs is not infinite, according to some Baghdadi-aligned Islamic scholars studied by Bunzel. One of those scholars, the Bahraini cleric Turki al-Bin’ali, cites a saying attributed to Muhammad that predicts a total of twelve caliphs before the end of the world. Bin’ali considers only seven of the caliphs of history legitimate. That makes Baghdadi the eighth out of twelve(emphasis mine)—and in some Sunni traditions, the name of the twelfth and final caliph, Muhammad ibn Abdullah, has already been foretold.

https://newrepublic.com/article/119259/isis-history-islamic-states-new-caliphate-syria-and-iraq

Even he is the eighth, and is of the seven and goes into perdition. The above article is as telling as it gets. A clear reference to a man that is the eighth in the line of succession. Baghdadi is of the first 7 as he can prove lineage from the correct tribe where in the Muslim world descent is a must for a Caliph. There you have it, prophecy fulfilled exactly as foretold. We are all looking at the final empire and it's leader. Don't worry that ISIS is small and seems to be on the run. The beast will be empowered by Satan and come to dominate the world. The beast will come to power through supernatural means only. In fact that will be the beginning of the time when gods walk the earth again, just like in the time of Noah.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Diaste

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five kings have fallen:

1.  Julius Caesar

2.  August Caesar

3.  Tiberius Caesar

4.  Caligula Caesar

5.  Claudius Caesar

One is, at the time of John:

6.  Nero Caesar

One yet to come, must continue a short space (the 42 months)

7.   Little horn, descended from the Julio-Claudian family of Caesar, becomes leader of EU, then king of Israel (the Antichrist), then revealed man of sin - will be killed.

8.   Man of sin, brought back to life, as the beast, king 8 (possessed by the unclean spirit ascending our of the bottomless pit).

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, douggg said:

five kings have fallen:

1.  Julius Caesar

2.  August Caesar

3.  Tiberius Caesar

4.  Caligula Caesar

5.  Claudius Caesar

One is, at the time of John:

6.  Nero Caesar

One yet to come, must continue a short space (the 42 months)

7.   Little horn, descended from the Julio-Claudian family of Caesar, becomes leader of EU, then king of Israel (the Antichrist), then revealed man of sin - will be killed.

8.   Man of sin, brought back to life, as the beast, king 8 (possessed by the unclean spirit ascending our of the bottomless pit).

 

 

 

How this can be? According to many sources the Revelation was written between 60 AD and 95 AD.  Revelation 4:1 says, " After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." That means Revelation 17:10, " And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.", must occur after the 35 year period when scholars generally agree Revelation was penned.  Many scholars think John received the Revelation around 90 AD and from what I read that seems like the correct date. This would demand that Nero was long dead(suicide in 68 AD) and the current Caesar was Domitian.  All of the above would then exclude all the Roman emperors. Again, the evidence is the date of the writing and the fact Jesus says these things must be hereafter; meaning Revelation from chapter 4 to 22 all occur after the vision was given.  Which in turn means Rev 17:10 does not refer to any past empires, kings or tyrants.

Even if the Revelation was given to John in 60 AD this would still exclude all the Caesars mentioned above. Nero reigned from 54-68 AD and could not therefore come, hereafter.

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On 3/3/2016 at 2:47 AM, ARGOSY said:

 

THE 5 WHO HAVE FALLEN:

1. Egypt

2. Assyria

3. Babylon

4. Media- Persia

5 Greece

THE ONE WHO IS: 

6. Rome

THE ONE WHO HAS YET TO COME

7.  SPLIT ROME when Rome split into  Papal Europe (now EU)  and   Byzantium Empire (now Turkey).  (two feet- divided kingdom of Daniel 2)

8.  New location Rome:   Turkey rapidly expands over ten countries. The two Roman capitals  (Istanbul/Rome) agree to relocate their capital to Israel/Jerusalem.

 

For prophecy to remain accurate, 6,7,8 all have to be Rome, in order to remain faithful to Dan 2 and Dan 7 which indicates Rome is the fourth empire, after Greece.  The 3 stages of Rome are symbolically represented in Daniel 2 by :

Iron legs  (Roman Empire)

Two feet of iron and clay (Split Empire with bad clay/bad religion inside it)

Ten toes  (ten horns/ten divisions of the final empire.

 

Daniel 2 and 7 indicate no such thing.  The five  who are fallen is also a fantasy. We all have been taught these things and they are false.

Edited by Diaste

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