pre trib rapture is fake true or false

[Sister]

10 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

A Resurrection will happen after the 1000 years.  We see different  First Resurrections. 1st the Church, I Thes 4:13 - Brothers (fellow Christians) we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep...  v15 - According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we (Christians) who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, we will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep (other Christians), those indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  We will rule with Christ

Montana Marv

Nothing about a trumpet being blown.

 

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The 2nd of a First Resurrection is those of Israel.  Daniel 12:13 - As for you (Daniel), go your way till the end.  You will rest, and then at the end of days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.  So this is of Israel (promised allotted inheritance - The Land from the Euphrates to the Nile -Gen 15:18), They will be ruled over by Christ on King Davids Throne.

No, the First resurrection are ALL IN CHRIST, whether Jew or Greek.  The remnants of Israel will be brought back into the kingdom in "the flesh".  They were not part of the "first resurrection".  The saints inherit all that God owns at that first resurrection, including eternal life.  Israel are given a chance to come to God through "his Word" now, the King of Kings.

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Now no other (of the Just) [before Israel was established] were given a promised part of the 1000 years, Only Israel and the Bride.  So when do they receive their part of the First Resurrected bodies - Post Mill.

 

Yes the remnants of Israel will be in that 2nd resurrection, because of "mercy" they will be taught truth.  They are brought into the kingdom to "learn" and "worship in truth" and none of them will be lost.  The real inheritance is the Kingdom of God.  One can only "inherit" when he is "changed" to spirit,  and then all that belongs to God belongs to him, not just a piece of land.  The "Kingdom on earth" is just a transition, a training camp for those of the flesh to know the spiritual things God requires of us.  It is the preparation for the real inheritance.

 

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Only the Bride and Only those of Israel have been given promise to the 1000 years.

You mean the Saints are given the promise to rule with Christ, and the remnants are brought into the kingdom and taught truth for a thousand years.  There are still gentiles living outside the kingdom who are given mercy and taught truth also.

Still, nothing about a trumpet after the thousand years?

The trumpets leading to Christ's second coming is a series of events, the wrath of God and the Lamb on Babylon the great.  After this we have a thousand years of peace, and then the Gog and Magog battle.  There are no trumpets blown during this period, no warnings, if a thousand years of truth coming out of the kingdom being spread all over the earth is not enough, then whoever joins this battle is doomed.  Their is no turn around, no warnings,.....their hearts are either converted or they are not, and God is going to use Gog to sift once again.

The holy scriptures we have been given all lead to the last trumpet to prepare us for Christ's return.  There are 7 angels, ...7 stages all leading to the coming.  We know that when the Mark of the beast is out, we have a third of the trees and grass burn't with fire, that's the first angel (first trump), ...this is how we know, and then the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth & seventh trumpet (the coming).  After this, I'm sure new books will be opened, for the new start of the 1st dominion of Christ.

[Last Daze]

10 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

A Resurrection will happen after the 1000 years.  We see different  First Resurrections. 1st the Church, I Thes 4:13 - Brothers (fellow Christians) we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep...  v15 - According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we (Christians) who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, we will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep (other Christians), those indwelt by the Holy Spirit.  We will rule with Christ

The 2nd of a First Resurrection is those of Israel.  Daniel 12:13 - As for you (Daniel), go your way till the end.  You will rest, and then at the end of days you will rise to receive your allotted inheritance.  So this is of Israel (promised allotted inheritance - The Land from the Euphrates to the Nile -Gen 15:18), They will be ruled over by Christ on King Davids Throne.

Now no other (of the Just) [before Israel was established] were given a promised part of the 1000 years, Only Israel and the Bride.  So when do they receive their part of the First Resurrected bodies - Post Mill.

Only the Bride and Only those of Israel have been given promise to the 1000 years.

In Christ

Montana Marv

That's nice and all but lets look at what the scriptures say and bring some clarity to it.  Keep in mind that being raised immortal is not the same as being raised from the dead or being brought back to life even though the word "resurrection" applies to both.  People are only raised immortal once and everyone, the just and the unjust, will be made immortal.  Being raised immortal is described by Paul to take place like this:

• For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: [1] Christ the first fruits, after that [2] those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes [3] the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  1 Corinthians 15:22-24

[1] - the immortal resurrection of Christ has already happened which means there are two more resurrections of immortality to come.

[2] - this is the first of the remaining two resurrections.  Paul gives us more detail about it later in 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4.  This is when the resurrection / rapture takes place.

[3] - this is when everyone else is raised immortal, just and unjust.  It is referred to as "the end of the age".  It is after the millennium, when the wheat and tares are separated, the good fish from the bad.

It doesn't get any more plainly stated than what Paul says here.  Embellish at your own risk.  The two remaining resurrections are also seen in Revelation 20:4-5

 

[Montana Marv]

6 minutes ago, Last Daze said:

That's nice and all but lets look at what the scriptures say and bring some clarity to it.  Keep in mind that being raised immortal is not the same as being raised from the dead or being brought back to life even though the word "resurrection" applies to both.  People are only raised immortal once and everyone, the just and the unjust, will be made immortal.  Being raised immortal is described by Paul to take place like this:

• For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.  But each in his own order: [1] Christ the first fruits, after that [2] those who are Christ’s at His coming, then comes [3] the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.  1 Corinthians 15:22-24

[1] - the immortal resurrection of Christ has already happened which means there are two more resurrections of immortality to come.

[2] - this is the first of the remaining two resurrections.  Paul gives us more detail about it later in 1 Corinthians 15 and 1 Thessalonians 4.  This is when the resurrection / rapture takes place.

[3] - this is when everyone else is raised immortal, just and unjust.  It is referred to as "the end of the age".  It is after the millennium, when the wheat and tares are separated, the good fish from the bad.

It doesn't get any more plainly stated than what Paul says here.  Embellish at your own risk.  The two remaining resurrections are also seen in Revelation 20:4-5

 

So When is the last Trumpet Call?  When is the last Trump?  At least you recognize that Those of the First Resurrection do not all go at once.  You have two entries, I have three entries into the First Resurrection.  You need to tell your resurrection timing to Enoch, he only has one.

With what you have said.  I always add "It is Only God the Father Knowing the timing of the Rapture", This should not even be in Scripture if everyone knows it is Post-Trib, but it is.  I choose (this is a choice issue) the time that does not make any since to you and many others, why, because, its time one cannot calculate, therefore totally unknown.  With The Rapture, I try to work with the most Unknown time, when one would least expect Him and that is like death, for it may happen at any time.  Watch and be Ready, Now.

In Christ

Montana Marv

[ENOCH2010]

41 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

So When is the last Trumpet Call?  When is the last Trump?  At least you recognize that Those of the First Resurrection do not all go at once.  You have two entries, I have three entries into the First Resurrection.  You need to tell your resurrection timing to Enoch, he only has one.

With what you have said.  I always add "It is Only God the Father Knowing the timing of the Rapture", This should not even be in Scripture if everyone knows it is Post-Trib, but it is.  I choose (this is a choice issue) the time that does not make any since to you and many others, why, because, its time one cannot calculate, therefore totally unknown.  With The Rapture, I try to work with the most Unknown time, when one would least expect Him and that is like death, for it may happen at any time.  Watch and be Ready, Now.

In Christ

Montana Marv

Christ and the old testament saints have already been raised (the first fruits) next will be at the second coming / rapture (the first resurrection) then after the 1000 year reign the just and unjust (the second resurrection). So simple a child could understand (Rev 20)

[Last Daze]

37 minutes ago, Montana Marv said:

So When is the last Trumpet Call?  When is the last Trump?  At least you recognize that Those of the First Resurrection do not all go at once.  You have two entries, I have three entries into the First Resurrection.  You need to tell your resurrection timing to Enoch, he only has one.

With what you have said.  I always add "It is Only God the Father Knowing the timing of the Rapture", This should not even be in Scripture if everyone knows it is Post-Trib, but it is.  I choose (this is a choice issue) the time that does not make any since to you and many others, why, because, its time one cannot calculate, therefore totally unknown.  With The Rapture, I try to work with the most Unknown time, when one would least expect Him and that is like death, for it may happen at any time.  Watch and be Ready, Now.

In Christ

Montana Marv

It's not my  resurrection timing.  It's what Paul clearly states.

At least you recognize that Those of the First Resurrection do not all go at once.

Huh?  I've no idea what that means and don't really care to know.  Again, embellish at your own risk.

[Last Daze]

8 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

Christ and the old testament saints have already been raised (the first fruits) next will be at the second coming / rapture (the first resurrection) then after the 1000 year reign the just and unjust (the second resurrection). So simple a child could understand (Rev 20)

OT saints?  How do you support that they were raised immortal  with Christ.  I'm aware of Matthew 27:52 but I don't see anything to indicate their immortality.

• The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.  Matthew 27:52

Why many?  Why not all?  I think this speaks to being raised from the dead, not necessarily raised immortal, and Paul doesn't mention OT saints with Christ.

[ENOCH2010]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

OT saints?  How do you support that they were raised immortal  with Christ.  I'm aware of Matthew 27:52 but I don't see anything to indicate their immortality.

• The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.  Matthew 27:52

Why many?  Why not all?  I think this speaks to being raised from the dead, not necessarily raised immortal, and Paul doesn't mention OT saints with Christ.

True Last Daze, I'm not going to argue either way, the scripture you quoted is what I had in mind. They're isn't enough scripture about the subject to be 100% sure either way. That's why I put them as first fruits and leave it at that.

[Last Daze]

7 minutes ago, ENOCH2010 said:

True Last Daze, I'm not going to argue either way, the scripture you quoted is what I had in mind. They're isn't enough scripture about the subject to be 100% sure either way. That's why I put them as first fruits and leave it at that.

Okay, was curious if you had something other than that.  It is certainly an oddity, a brief mention of the event, almost in passing.

[SINNERSAVED]

1 hour ago, Last Daze said:

OT saints?  How do you support that they were raised immortal  with Christ.  I'm aware of Matthew 27:52 but I don't see anything to indicate their immortality.

• The tombs were opened, and many bodies of the saints who had fallen asleep were raised.  Matthew 27:52

Why many?  Why not all?  I think this speaks to being raised from the dead, not necessarily raised immortal, and Paul doesn't mention OT saints with Christ.

I have a topic on that , the graves are open  on the day Christ risen, and so its interesting , that could it be the first fruits, yes it is and this is why , for the son of God, being the crème of the crop the one divine, to break the sting of death , has risen and so He has brought forth the first fruits we see, to God, for god, and then the rest will be of the souls that are saved by grace,

 let us see how God was worshipped and how it was  a custom,. and so Jesus fulfilled the first, of the fruits, of the mortal to immortal  and those that were ion  God were also set free, for we see that there are souls awaiting and are there for the rest of us , as we gather,

but where are we at this time, prior to the shout ? where the dead in Christ rises first , and then them that are alive, meet the lord ?

 blessings and peace

[Paradigm]

10 hours ago, Serving said:

The church being spoken of during the days of Moses was the Word of God Himself .. after all , He is the Head .. don't confuse it with the TWO different DOCTRINES .. the CHURCH is the SAME, HE is the SAME .. it is only HIS Doctrine/Priesthood that has changed .. see Melchizedek who Himself is from EVERLASTING with NO BEGINNING and most revealingly .. NO END .. so where is He then?

Acts 7:38  This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him inthe mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Do you have any evidence that the "church" in the wilderness is the Word of God? I'm not sure which lexicon that you are using to arrive at that. Again, kahal connects to ecclessia which connects to the English word church. 

No doctrine in the scripture has changed, only in religion. 

John 7:16

Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

John 7:17

If any man will do his will, he shall know of thedoctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

10 hours ago, Serving said:

Abraham was informed as to the RESULTS of the gospel, look : "and the SCRIPTURE, FORESEEING that God would justify the heathen through faith" (that is ONLY the RESULT of the gospel being expounded/confirmed unto Abraham) AND saying, "In thee shall all nations be blessed" (again, ONLY the RESULT was being expressed/expounded to Abraham) .. those things preached unto him were of the gospel, yes, BUT and again, they were only the RESULTS of the gospel being expounded/revealed, and the RESULTS of the gospel being preached to Abraham AND the prophets even, do NOT equal the details of the gospel itself (the DOCTRINE of Christ) being revealed unto him/them throughout the scriptures .. otherwise THIS would be broken :

Galatians 3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

We can't just eliminate parts from the scripture to make it fit our theology. It plainly says that the gospel was preached unto Abraham and also the children of Israel. 

John 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No one comes to the Father except through the son. No one. That means Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David, etc. 

The truth is no hindered by a linear, dispensational theological viewpoint. 

1 Peter 1:20

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Revelation 13:8

And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Notice how well the scriptures can speak for themselves with very little commentary. That is unless one is having to dismiss what a lot of scriptures say to support a theology. Then it requires a small amount of scripture and much more commentary. 

 

Revelation 14:6

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,