The World of the dead

[spiderman1917]

It sounds like if they are unsaved and there is no hope for them, they have already had their judgment.

If a judge has given a prisoner life behind bars with no hope of ever giving getting out, he's already gone before the judge and received a sentence

 

[Ezra]

On 30/04/2016 at 8:17 AM, spiderman1917 said:

If a judge has given a prisoner life behind bars with no hope of ever giving getting out, he's already gone before the judge and received a sentence

We need to recall that the sentence was already passed when Adam sinned (Rom 5:12). However, God provides a way for all humans to be declared "not guilty". That is called justification by grace through faith (Eph 2:8,9).  So the unsaved are the ones who fail to avail themselves of God's provision in Christ.

[Willa]

On April 30, 2016 at 8:51 PM, spiderman1917 said:

  Nothing in scripture says that if saved, you are immediately judged and go to heaven 

2Co 5:8  NKJV  We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.   Php 1:23  For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.

Paul believed he would be immediately in the presence of Jesus when he died.  That is also what I believe.  As said, our works will be judged.  The bad ones or those of selfish motives will burn.  Those that are God's doing will be rewarded.  And that will occur later.  But all souls of those whose names are written in the Book of Life will be with the Lord when they die.  Their bodies will be resurrected later.  

Everyone is already heading for hell unless they love the light given them.  All have given some light about God and His existence.  Those who reject the light for any reason, even the light they have will be taken away.  But those who have received light will receive more till they receive Christ. 

Joh 1:5 AMP  And the Light shines on in the darkness, for the darkness has never overpowered it [put it out or absorbed it or appropriated it, and is unreceptive to it].

Mar 4:25  NKJV For whoever has, to him more will be given; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him."

Joh 3:18  NKJV  "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.  19  And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.  20  For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.  21  But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

God sees people and situations a lot more clearly than we do.  He is a righteous judge because He sees our hearts, motives, pride and rebellion, hatred and rejection of all that is of The Light.  He writes the names in His Book of those who will receive Christ.  It would be hell for those who hate Christ to be forced to be in His Presence and Light for eternity.  They go where they choose to go.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Sis,,,,

     We usually are like minded on most things but on what Paul was saying I do not hold to the same belief as you do,,,,,,I believe Paul was talking about forsaking the flesh,to walk in Spirit ,,,,,,,,,,to walk in Spirit ius without hindrance of our physicality ,,,,,,,Jesus abides in us,in our spirit we are indwelled by the Holy Spirit ,,,,,,therefore to be absent from the body(carnality) is to be present with the Lord,,,,,,,,,,,,that is my Understanding,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

     However,I do agree with everything else you mentioned & the Word of God does support these Un derstandings as we have it

Quote

Joh 3:18  NKJV  "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.  19  And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.  20  For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.  21  But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

God sees people and situations a lot more clearly than we do.  He is a righteous judge because He sees our hearts, motives, pride and rebellion, hatred and rejection of all that is of The Light.  He writes the names in His Book of those who will receive Christ.  It would be hell for those who hate Christ to be forced to be in His Presence and Light for eternity.  They go where they choose to go.

We will not be a part of the Great White Throne Judgement,Thanks to Jesus!!!!                Wfith love-in Christ,Kwik

[angels4u]

On 4/30/2016 at 0:51 AM, spiderman1917 said:

What is the Scriptural basis for saying there are no saved souls in Sheol any longer?  Nothing in scripture says that if saved, you are immediately judged and go to heaven 

Christians will not be judged , they will receive their rewards in heaven for the works they did for Jesus:

Question: "What are the five heavenly crowns that believers can receive in Heaven?"

Answer: There are five heavenly crowns mentioned in the New Testament that will be awarded to believers. They are the imperishable crown, the crown of rejoicing, the crown of righteousness, the crown of glory, and the crown of life. The Greek word translated “crown” is stephanos (the source for the name Stephen the martyr) and means “a badge of royalty, a prize in the public games or a symbol of honor generally.” Used during the ancient Greek games, it referred to a wreath or garland of leaves placed on a victor’s head as a reward for winning an athletic contest. As such, this word is used figuratively in the New Testament of the rewards of heaven God promises those who are faithful. Paul’s passage in 1 Corinthians 9:24-25 best defines for us how these crowns are awarded. 

1) The Imperishable Crown – (1 Corinthians 9:24-25) “Do you not know that those who run in a race all run, but one receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it. And everyone who competes for the prize is temperate [disciplined] in all things. Now they do it to obtain a perishable crown, but we for an imperishable crown” (NKJV). All things on this earth are subject to decay and will perish. Jesus urges us to not store our treasures on earth “where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal” (Matthew 6:19). This is analogous to what Paul was saying about that wreath of leaves that was soon to turn brittle and fall apart. But not so the heavenly crown; faithful endurance wins a heavenly reward which is “an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you” (1 Peter 1:3-5).

2) The Crown of Rejoicing – (1 Thessalonians 2:19) “For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Is it not even you in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at His coming?” The apostle Paul tells us in Philippians 4:4 to “rejoice always in the Lord” for all the bountiful blessings our gracious God has showered upon us. As Christians we have more in this life to rejoice about than anyone else. Luke tells us there is rejoicing even now in heaven (Luke 15:7). The crown of rejoicing will be our reward where “God will wipe away every tear . . . there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away” (Revelation 21:4).

3) The Crown of Righteousness – (2 Timothy 4:8) “Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing.” We inherit this crown through the righteousness of Christ which is what gives us a right to it, and without which it cannot be obtained. Because it is obtained and possessed in a righteous way, and not by force and deceit as earthly crowns sometimes are, it is an everlasting crown, promised to all who love the Lord and eagerly wait for His return. Through our enduring the discouragements, persecutions, sufferings, or even death, we know assuredly our reward is with Christ in eternity (Philippians 3:20). This crown is not for those who depend upon their own sense of righteousness or of their own works. Such an attitude breeds only arrogance and pride, not a longing, a fervent desire to be with the Lord. 

4) The Crown of Glory – (1 Peter 5:4) “And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that does not fade away.” Though Peter is addressing the elders, we must also remember that the crown will be awarded to all those who long for or love His appearing. This word “glory” is an interesting word referring to the very nature of God and His actions. It entails His great splendor and brightness. Recall Stephen who, while being stoned to death, was able to look into the heavens and see the glory of God (Acts 7:55-56). This word also means that the praise and honor we bestow to God alone is due Him because of who He is (Isaiah 42:8, 48:11; Galatians 1:5). It also recognizes that believers are incredibly blessed to enter into the kingdom, into the very likeness of Christ Himself. For as Paul so eloquently put it, “For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us” (Romans 8:18 NKJV).

5) The Crown of Life – (Revelation 2:10) “Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.” This crown is for all believers, but is especially dear to those who endure sufferings, who bravely confront persecution for Jesus, even to the point of death. In Scripture the word “life” is often used to show a relationship that is right with God. It was Jesus who said, “I have come that they may have life and that they may have it more abundantly” (John 10:10). Just as things such as air, food, and water are vital for our physical lives, Jesus provides us what is required for our spiritual lives. He is the One who provides “living water.” He is the “bread of life” (John 4:10, 6:35). We know that our earthly lives will end. But we have the amazing promise that comes only to those who come to God through Jesus: “And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life” (1 John 2:25).

James tells us that this crown of life is for all those who love God (James 1:12). The question then is how do we demonstrate our love for God? The apostle John answers this for us: “For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome” (1 John 5:3). As His children we must keep His commandments, obeying Him, always remaining faithful. So, as we endure the inevitable trials, pains, heartaches, and tribulations—as long as we live—may we ever move forward, always “looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith” (Hebrews 12:2) and receive the crown of life that awaits us.

 

Question: "What is the Great White Throne Judgment?"

Answer: The great white throne judgment is described in Revelation 20:11-15 and is the final judgment prior to the lost being cast into the lake of fire. We know from Revelation 20:7-15 that this judgment will take place after the millennium and after Satan, the beast, and the false prophet are thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:7-10). The books that are opened (Revelation 20:12) contain records of everyone’s deeds, whether they are good or evil, because God knows everything that has ever been said, done, or even thought, and He will reward or punish each one accordingly (Psalm 28:4; 62:12; Romans 2:6; Revelation 2:23; 18:6; 22:12).

Also at this time, another book is opened, called the “book of life” (Revelation 20:12). It is this book that determines whether a person will inherit eternal life with God or receive everlasting punishment in the lake of fire. Although Christians are held accountable for their actions, they are forgiven in Christ and their names were written in the “book of life from the creation of the world” (Revelation 17:8). We also know from Scripture that it is at this judgment when the dead will be “judged according to what they had done” (Revelation 20:12) and that “anyone’s name” that is not “found written in the book of life” will be “thrown into the lake of fire” (Revelation 20:15).

The fact that there is going to be a final judgment for all men, both believers and unbelievers, is clearly confirmed in many passages of Scripture. Every person will one day stand before Christ and be judged for his or her deeds. While it is very clear that the great white throne judgment is the final judgment, Christians disagree on how it relates to the other judgments mentioned in the Bible, specifically, who will be judged at the great white throne judgment.

Some Christians believe that the Scriptures reveal three different judgments to come. The first is the judgment of the sheep and the goats or a judgment of the nations (Matthew 25:31-36). This takes place after the tribulation period but prior to the millennium; its purpose is to determine who will enter the millennial kingdom. The second is a judgment of believers’ works, often referred to as the “judgment seat [bema] of Christ” (2 Corinthians 5:10). At this judgment, Christians will receive degrees of reward for their works or service to God. The third is the great white throne judgment at the end of the millennium (Revelation 20:11-15). This is the judgment of unbelievers in which they are judged according to their works and sentenced to everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.

Other Christians believe that all three of these judgments speak of the same final judgment, not of three separate judgments. In other words, the great white throne judgment in Revelation 20:11-15 will be the time that believers and unbelievers alike are judged. Those whose names are found in the book of life will be judged for their deeds in order to determine the rewards they will receive or lose. Those whose names are not in the book of life will be judged according to their deeds to determine the degree of punishment they will receive in the lake of fire. Those who hold this view believe that Matthew 25:31-46 is another description of what takes place at the great white throne judgment. They point to the fact that the result of this judgment is the same as what is seen after the great white throne judgment in Revelation 20:11-15. The sheep (believers) enter into eternal life, while the goats (unbelievers) are cast into “eternal punishment” (Matthew 25:46).

Whichever view one holds of the great white throne judgment, it is important to never lose sight of the facts concerning the coming judgment(s). First, Jesus Christ will be the judge, all unbelievers will be judged by Christ, and they will be punished according to the works they have done. The Bible is very clear that unbelievers are storing up wrath against themselves (Romans 2:5) and that God will “give to each person according to what he has done” (Romans 2:6). Believers will also be judged by Christ, but since Christ’s righteousness has been imputed to us and our names are written in the book of life, we will be rewarded, but not punished, according to our deeds. Romans 14:10-12 says that we will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ and that each one of us will give an account.
 

 

[HAZARD]

On ‎16‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 5:12 AM, spiderman1917 said:

1 Samuel 28

so in Sam 28:11 Saul said "Bring up the ghost of Samuel".

then Samuel appeared and prophecied:

¹⁶ Samuel said:

If the Lord has turned away from you and is now your enemy, don’t ask me what to do. ¹⁷ I’ve already told you: The Lord has sworn to take the kingdom from you and give it to David. And that’s just what he’s doing! ¹⁸ When the Lord was angry with the Amalekites, he told you to destroy them, but you didn’t do it. That’s why the Lord is doing this to you. ¹⁹ Tomorrow the Lord will let the Philistines defeat Israel’s army, then you and your sons will join me down here in the world of the dead.

What do you think he means by "world of the dead?"

 

 

Saul wanted to contact Samuel, who had anointed him king. and who had given him advice on several occasions and refused to advise him during his last years. Samuel had been dead now for at least two years. Since God would not answer him by ordinary means Saul hoped in vain to get an answer through a demon, who imitated Samuel (V. 3-9; 1 Chr. 10:13-14).

The woman did not see Samuel at all but a familiar spirit that did imitated him. The woman knew who Saul was by the familiar spirit who possessed her, (V. 12)

[RustyAngeL]

On 4/30/2016 at 9:17 AM, spiderman1917 said:

It sounds like if they are unsaved and there is no hope for them, they have already had their judgment.

If a judge has given a prisoner life behind bars with no hope of ever giving getting out, he's already gone before the judge and received a sentence

 

There is no hope for them.  Their fate is sealed, as stated more then once, they await the Great White Throne Judgement.   We are not talking about a human judge and with human values or laws.  God's law is final.  "It is appointed for once man to die, after that the judgement"

[RustyAngeL]

On 4/16/2016 at 3:58 PM, spiderman1917 said:

Since we know God is more merciful than us ,why give up hope that not all of the souls in Hades are eternaly separated from God?

Why would they come out of Hades to be judged if there was no hope of salvation for them?

Those who die in their sin have no hope and have no choice.  They missed their chance when they were here.  One your dead there is no hope for you.  You cannot pray those who are in Hades out of Hades.  That is Catholic doctrine not Bible doctrine.

[n2thelight]

On 4/16/2016 at 3:21 PM, bopeep1909 said:

Is this what you are asking?

Question: "Did the witch of Endor really summon Samuel from the dead (1 Samuel 28:7-20)?"

Answer: The story of the witch of Endor summoning Samuel is recorded in 1 Samuel 28:7-20, the only biblical account of someone being visited by someone who was deceased. Saul, having deprived himself of every legitimate means of spiritual input as a result of his own disobedience and rebellion, walked in foolishness again by seeking out the very resource (a medium) he had previously removed from the land. By divine law, mediums and spiritists were banned from Israel (Deuteronomy 18:11), and Israel was not to be defiled by them (Leviticus 19:31). That the king would stoop to this indicates how far he had fallen from God’s grace.

The passage does not give us any reason to believe it was anyone other than Samuel, who is described by the medium as “an old man wearing a robe” (v. 14). Obviously, age and clothing do not exist in the realm of the spirits of those who have died, but God miraculously gave Samuel such appearances as would enable Saul perceive who the spirit was. The message Samuel gave Saul was completely accurate. God allowed the witch of Endor to summon the prophet Samuel in order to give King Saul the news of his coming defeat and death.

This does not mean that it is genuinely possible for witches or mediums to speak with the dead, only that God allowed it in this one exception. When a person dies, his soul is taken to heaven or hell, depending on whether he has placed his faith in Christ (Matthew 25:46). There is no reason to believe that a deceased person has any ability to leave heaven or hell in order to visit his living family members. Any such claim is a demonic deception (2 Corinthians 11:14-15). God declared such practices to be abhorrent to Him, and those who did practice such things in Israel were to be put to death (Leviticus 20:27; Deuteronomy 18:10-12). Satan would like nothing more than for people to dabble in the occult world of spiritism and necromancy. God’s commandments regarding these things are designed to protect us from the schemes of our enemy, the devil, who “prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8).

http://www.gotquestions.org/witch-of-endor.html

It was not Samuel

 

[other one]

My Bible says it was Samuel.

1 Sam 28:15

15 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
NASB

 

I personally do not think that the Lord would allow deception within his word concerning a message being spoken to us.....

There is good reason why doing this was a capitol offense.