ORIGINAL SIN

[angels4u]

1 hour ago, Gus said:

 

Although I agree with this, it is also one of the (many) issues I have with the idea of an eternal hell.

If children are not 'guilty' and therefore do not go to hell, then surely we would all be better off dying as children. In fact, infant death would be a blessing as you go straight to heaven, don't have to have the issues of this life to deal with and gain eternal life in heaven.

Why risk reaching an 'age of accountability', where your fate may be eternal damnation in a fiery hell? And what of this age of accountability? When does someone stop becoming a child? What if someone was not 'accountable' and then the next day they where, and then died in a car crash? Are they now 'guilty'? If you say God will understand and be merciful, then why not two days? A week? A month? A year?...and so on.

 

 

 

That's why the Bible says :

"Now is the day of Salvation",don't wait because you don't know if you have tomorrow.

The age of accountability is different for children , only God knows their hearts.

Could it be around the age of 12?

Luke 2:41

The Boy Jesus at the Temple

⁴¹ Every year Jesus’ parents went to Jerusalem for the Festival of the Passover. ⁴² When he was twelve years old, they went up to the festival, according to the custom. After the festival was ⁴³ over, while his parents were returning home, the boy Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but they were unaware of it. ⁴⁴ Thinking he was in their company, they traveled on for a day. Then they began looking for him among their relatives and friends. ⁴⁵ When they did not find him, they went back to Jerusalem to look for him. ⁴⁶ After three days they found him in the temple courts, sitting among the teachers, listening to them and asking them questions. ⁴⁷ Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers. ⁴⁸ When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you.”

⁴⁹ “Why were you searching for me?” he asked. “Didn’t you know I had to be in my Father’s house?”^[a] 50 But they did not understand what he was saying to them.

⁵¹ Then he went down to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. But his mother treasured all these things in her heart. ⁵² And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

2 Cor.6:2

For he says, "In the time of my favor I heard you, and in the day of salvation I helped you." I tell you, now is the time of God's favor, now is the day of salvation.
 

 

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Gus

  I don't see your point?

Quote

Why risk reaching an 'age of accountability', where your fate may be eternal damnation in a fiery hell?

Risk? So what are you saying,,,,not that it be better to kill of kids?I just don't get what you're saying,,,,,,you said you have(many) issues with "idea" of a fiery hell,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well,whether or not you have issue with it ,it is what it is & not to be rude but God does not really care who has issues with what He has put in place,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,He gave us His Word,there is plenty warnings about this destination f or those who reject our Lord & savior,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why risk that?

It does not matter what the age of accountability is,I am pretty sure it is different for each person depending their rate of learning to 'reason",,,,,,,God makes Salvation available to all men,Jesus took the sins of "the world" into His own sinless Body,none will have any excuse when they go on to meet our Maker,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Almighty God is JUST,good enough for me                                With love-in Christ,Kwik

[CATerri]

7 hours ago, Gus said:

 

Although I agree with this, it is also one of the (many) issues I have with the idea of an eternal hell.

If children are not 'guilty' and therefore do not go to hell, then surely we would all be better off dying as children. In fact, infant death would be a blessing as you go straight to heaven, don't have to have the issues of this life to deal with and gain eternal life in heaven.

Why risk reaching an 'age of accountability', where your fate may be eternal damnation in a fiery hell? And what of this age of accountability? When does someone stop becoming a child? What if someone was not 'accountable' and then the next day they where, and then died in a car crash? Are they now 'guilty'? If you say God will understand and be merciful, then why not two days? A week? A month? A year?...and so on.

 

 

I think Gus was just taking an idea to it's logical conclusion.  The idea being, "He would never condemn an infant to hell because of Adams sin"

 

 

[Gus]

7 hours ago, kwikphilly said:

Blessings Gus

  I don't see your point?

Risk? So what are you saying,,,,not that it be better to kill of kids?I just don't get what you're saying,,,,,,you said you have(many) issues with "idea" of a fiery hell,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well,whether or not you have issue with it ,it is what it is & not to be rude but God does not really care who has issues with what He has put in place,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,He gave us His Word,there is plenty warnings about this destination f or those who reject our Lord & savior,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,why risk that?

It does not matter what the age of accountability is,I am pretty sure it is different for each person depending their rate of learning to 'reason",,,,,,,God makes Salvation available to all men,Jesus took the sins of "the world" into His own sinless Body,none will have any excuse when they go on to meet our Maker,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Almighty God is JUST,good enough for me                                With love-in Christ,Kwik

Well, I’m using hyperbole here to raise a philosophical question. And I believe hell needs to be looked at with these questions as otherwise we tend to just ignore genuine concerns many have on the issue and just resort to the 'God is just' or 'If we don't like it, tough' responses.

I don't think we can just say God does not care if people have issues with it. He absolutely does care, as there is a lot of confusion and fear on these matters. Many have walked away from their faith or cannot approach it at all because of it. No matter what they here about Jesus, the concept of eternal punishment in hell does not fit with being told God loves all unconditionally, God is love and God is merciful.

Just to clarify, I believe in hell as a place of punishment, but that punishment has an outcome, otherwise, why keep punishing? What is the purpose? I have not yet fully made my made up if there is 'eternal' destruction or if everyone does in fact become reconciled to God. But enternall, on-going and conscious punishment I have come to reject. So that is where I currently sit on that.

Anyway, sorry, I have gone 'off topic' here.,

[Willa]

As for children, 1 Cor 7:14 AMP explains it this way:

1Co 7:14  For the unbelieving husband is set apart (separated, withdrawn from heathen contamination, and affiliated with the Christian people) by union with his consecrated (set-apart) wife, and the unbelieving wife is set apart and separated through union with her consecrated husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean (unblessed heathen, outside the Christian covenant), but as it is they are prepared for God [pure and clean].

Christians are responsible for training our children from an early age to repent and say sorry, to pray, to turn to God for help, to be thankful to God for all he has done and to know right from wrong.  These can all be learned before age of 7.  When one son was 5 he was required to learn the Lord's Prayer in Lutheran Kindergarten.  Our 2 year old son with bad adenoids slept in the same room and heard us recite it every night.  Soon he was praying:

Our Fabber in heaben, how would be dye Name.  Kingdom come, will be done, erf in heaben.  Gib us dis day daily bwead, an fogib us-- leab us not into 'tation bud deliver fwom evil.  Dine kingdom, poweh gloyeh fohebbeh.  Amen  No, he didn't understand it all, but he was being trained in the way he should go.  (Yes, he talked like Elmer Fudd.  Soon they put tubes in his hears and that helped a lot but not his adenoids.)  

[kwikphilly]

Quote

Our Fabber in heaben, how would be dye Name.  Kingdom come, will be done, erf in heaben.  Gib us dis day daily bwead, an fogib us-- leab us not into 'tation bud deliver fwom evil.  Dine kingdom, poweh gloyeh fohebbeh.  Amen  No, he didn't understand it all, but he was being trained in the way he should go.  (Yes, he talked like Elmer Fudd.  Soon they put tubes in his hears and that helped a lot but not his adenoids.)         posted by Willa

Blessings Willa

    That is just adorable,,,,,,& that is the beginnings of instructing them in the Way they must go,,,,,,,job well done,Praise Jesus!

Gus,I'm sure that is fine,,,it was not so waaaay "Off Topic" really,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as far as "where you sit",Well,that is your prerogative but I will say this much,,,,,,if everyone believed that hell is just a temporary place where one can "more or less" serve a sentence with the outcome being "time served" to result in a reconciliation to Our Heavenly Father,,,,,,Why would there be a need for our Savior?Jesus told us there is but ONE WAY to the Father & HE is the WAY,,,,the ONLY WAY.......

I'm sorry you don't particularly care for the "God is Just" reponses but that is Gods Truth,it is His Word,,,,,,He does love us unconditionally & has made Provision for our inability to ever attain Holiness or be "good" enough to be Worthy of His Presence Eternally,,,,,,,,,He Himself took our place that we do not have to be FORSAKEN,,,,,,,,,Eternal damnation is not His desire for any man,,,,,,it is a choice,anyone who waked away from their "faith" most likely never had faith in the knowledge of WHO our Lord & Savior IS,,,,,,,,,& you are right,it does not matter what anyone hears ABOUT Jesus,,,,,,you have to HEAR JESUS & Know Jesus,knowing ABOUT Him is not having a Relationship WITH Him,,,,,,,,so what Faith did they ever have?We don't have to like or even understand the things that God does,,,,,,,we simply Trust Him & Love Him,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,                       With love-in Christ,Kwik                                                      

[Ezra]

On 5/26/2016 at 2:57 PM, Gus said:

Just to clarify, I believe in hell as a place of punishment, but that punishment has an outcome, otherwise, why keep punishing? What is the purpose? I have not yet fully made my made up if there is 'eternal' destruction or if everyone does in fact become reconciled to God. But enternall, on-going and conscious punishment I have come to reject. So that is where I currently sit on that.

If we go strictly by what has been taught by Christ and is revealed in Scripture:

1. Hell (the Lake of Fire) was primarily created for the Devil and his angels (who brought sin, evil, disease, destruction, decay and death into this world, by firstly rebelling in Heaven, then causing the Fall of Man, and then corrupting the human race).

2. Hell is presently in outer darkness, and ultimately all evildoers and sinners without the Savior will be cast in Hell. Death and Hades will also be cast into the Lake of Fire, along with the unholy trinity of the Devil, the Beast, and the False Prophet.

3. Hell is eternal burning, eternal torment, and eternal separation from God.  The *outcome* is that the entire universe will be cleansed from sin, evil, and unrighteousness, and there will be a New Heavens and a New Earth.

4. It is not for us to speculate on the duration of Hell, since *eternal* does mean *eternal* and God says what He means. 

5. Because Hell is real and awful, God offers the gift of eternal life to all humans who repent and believe.  There is no offer to Satan and his evil angels, except a promise of eternal damnation.

6. It does not matter what humans think about Hell. God is the one who knows why Hell will exist for all eternity.  If it did not, then sin and evil would rear their ugly heads once again.

[Bible_Gazer]

Hebrews 2:14
 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

So is the sin nature or original sin the devil in us or does the devil has the power of death over us ? 

Did Jesus not come to destroy the sin nature given to us by Adam ?

If we being born again and now a new creature, then we do not have the sins of Adam in us, so did Jesus made us free from Adam's sin of death ?

Its worthy of discussion to know who is to blame, if its free choice or something else that made me do it.

It should tie into the doctrine of salvation.  Who or what did Jesus come to save me from the power of death ?