Young Earth/Old Earth

[Ezra]

38 minutes ago, hmbld said:

In fact, I was unable to follow how anyone can read a Lucifer's flood into scripture without stretching or twisting what is actually said.

And who is the original distorter of Scripture? "Ye shall not surely die" was a lie.

[Ezra]

57 minutes ago, Saved.One.by.Grace said:

Item 1 is an assumption on your part.  You are assuming carnivores were created before Adam, before the Fall.  That's a pretty big assumption. 

How did you arrive at this conclusion since herbivores vs carnivores was not even discussed?  But just so we are all clear, every creature (including man) was originally a HERBIVORE.  Please review Genesis 1 and 2.  The curse on the earth (chapter 3) would have brought about the creation of carnivores.

[HAZARD]

Gen. 1:1, "In the beginning," God created the heavens and the Earth. Because of Lucifers rebellion and attempted overthrow of God in invading heaven, God destroyed the earth and everything in it, including turning off the sun, moon, stars. In Gen 1:2 we see the varying kind of animals, all life, nothing saved, that God destroyed Gen. 1:2, with man, the cities, the sun, moon and stars, there was no light, and every living thing that "PERISHED."

God then some time later, restored the Earth to a habitable state, created Adam and Eve and then God told Adam and Eve to replenish the earth, in Gen. 1:28, And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,  and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

God commanded them to replenish the Earth because it was plenished some time before, for God to tell Adam and Eve to go and replenish the Earth.  

Because of the wickedness of man, God flooded the earth a second time, only this time He saved Noah and his family and all the animals in the ark. When the flood dried up God told Noah and his family to be fruitful, and multiply and replenish the earth, because it was plenished before God sent the second flood.

Gen 9:1, "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."

 

[hmbld]

1 hour ago, HAZARD said:

God then some time later, restored the Earth to a habitable state, created Adam and Eve and then God told Adam and Eve to replenish the earth, in Gen. 1:28, And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,  and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

 

Hebrew interlinear Bible or Bible dictionary, the word translated as ‘replenish’ in Genesis 1:28 is the Hebrew verb מלאו (mil’û), which simply means fill. Not refill. Which is why most modern versions translate the word in Genesis 1:28 as fill.

Creating a story line based off of faulty understanding of a word meaning is fun, but does not make it true.

[HAZARD]

42 minutes ago, hmbld said:

Hebrew interlinear Bible or Bible dictionary, the word translated as ‘replenish’ in Genesis 1:28 is the Hebrew verb מלאו (mil’û), which simply means fill. Not refill. Which is why most modern versions translate the word in Genesis 1:28 as fill.

Creating a story line based off of faulty understanding of a word meaning is fun, but does not make it true.

I am not creating a story line, this is not fun, this is serious business. I'm quoting the NKJ version of the Bible where it says replenish, as God also said to Noah, replenish. There was a social system before Adam (cp. Gen. 9:1; Isa. 2:6; 23:2; Jer. 31:25; Ez. 26:2; 27:25). Now if we take the word replenish to only simply mean "fill," in all the other places, then the Scriptures make no sense at all?

The word replenish and replenished, is used in many Scriptures and it does not mean to simply fill.

Gen. 9:1, "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."

Isa. 2:6,  "Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers."

Isa. 23:2, "Be still, ye inhabitants of the isle; thou whom the merchants of Zidon, that pass over the sea, replenished" (replenished with riches and merchandise (V. 2: Ez. 27:8-23).

Jer. 31:25, "For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every sorrowful soul."

Ezek. 26:2, "Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished,  now she is laid waste:"

Ezek. 27:25, "The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished,  and made very glorious in the midst of the seas. "

One cannot replenish something that has not been filled before.

I have a full glass of wine, I drink it, its empty, I ask the bartender, when he returns to refill (replenish) my empty glass.

[hmbld]

17 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

I am not creating a story line, this is not fun, this is serious business. I'm quoting the NKJ version of the Bible where it says replenish, as God also said to Noah, replenish. There was a social system before Adam (cp. Gen. 9:1; Isa. 2:6; 23:2; Jer. 31:25; Ez. 26:2; 27:25). Now if we take the word replenish to only simply mean "fill," in all the other places, then the Scriptures make no sense at all?

The word replenish and replenished, is used in many Scriptures and it does not mean to simply fill.

Gen. 9:1, "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."

Isa. 2:6,  "Therefore thou hast forsaken thy people the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and are soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers."

Isa. 23:2, "Be still, ye inhabitants of the isle; thou whom the merchants of Zidon, that pass over the sea, replenished" (replenished with riches and merchandise (V. 2: Ez. 27:8-23).

Jer. 31:25, "For I have satiated the weary soul, and I have replenished every sorrowful soul."

Ezek. 26:2, "Son of man, because that Tyrus hath said against Jerusalem, Aha, she is broken that was the gates of the people: she is turned unto me: I shall be replenished,  now she is laid waste:"

Ezek. 27:25, "The ships of Tarshish did sing of thee in thy market: and thou wast replenished,  and made very glorious in the midst of the seas. "

One cannot replenish something that has not been filled before.

I have a full glass of wine, I drink it, its empty, I ask the bartender, when he returns to refill (replenish) my empty glass.

Strongs:  

A primitive root; to increase (in whatever respect) -- (bring in) abundance (X -antly), + archer (by mistake for rabab), be in authority, bring up, X continue, enlarge, excel, exceeding(-ly), be full of, (be, make) great(-er, -ly, X -ness), grow up, heap, increase, be long, (be, give, have, make, use) many (a time), (any, be, give, give the, have) more (in number), (ask, be, be so, gather, over, take, yield) much (greater, more), (make to) multiply, nourish, plenty(-eous), X process (of time), sore, store, thoroughly, very.

 

I see no replenish here.  

 

Genesis 1:28 
HEB: פְּר֥וּ וּרְב֛וּ וּמִלְא֥וּ אֶת־ הָאָ֖רֶץ
NAS: and multiply, and fill the earth,
KJV: and multiply, and replenish the earth,
INT: to them be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue

 

It looks like only Kjv used the word "replenish"  I think we need someone more familiar with translating to jump in here.  

[other one]

5 hours ago, Omegaman 3.0 said:

 

Again, I do apologize for your offense, but not for calling a spade a spade. I cited the violation of the TOS which you commited, and to be accurate, I did not call you a liar, I said I call posting knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate information, is a lie. I doubt many would disagree with that statement

 

LoL    so you are not accusing me of posting something untrue? 

I explained that the article  is not the intellectual property of Chuck and Ross,  and the full use of that article without giving credit to the people who researched the information, combined the information to a separate work and published it without giving credit for thier work, is not legal.

So when a person does that they are taking something and using it that does not belong to them and that is stealing.....    that is all I posted as far as I know....   and it is the truth.     

And if George allows that on this site he is an accomplice.....    and that is why the rules about posting URL's from information taken from the internet exists and is important...  and even though I have brought up the subject several times now, I just checked and still the OP does not give credit for the work of the people who put this together.           

I went through this same problem a year or so ago quoting some Islamic material for I didn't want to send people to Jidhi web sites.....   for several reasons and had to spend a week to find the information on a site that was not dangerous before I was allowed to post it here.

I really do not understand what  we are even discussing here....

[post]

2 hours ago, hmbld said:

Strongs:  

A primitive root; to increase (in whatever respect) -- (bring in) abundance (X -antly), + archer (by mistake for rabab), be in authority, bring up, X continue, enlarge, excel, exceeding(-ly), be full of, (be, make) great(-er, -ly, X -ness), grow up, heap, increase, be long, (be, give, have, make, use) many (a time), (any, be, give, give the, have) more (in number), (ask, be, be so, gather, over, take, yield) much (greater, more), (make to) multiply, nourish, plenty(-eous), X process (of time), sore, store, thoroughly, very.

 

I see no replenish here.  

 

Genesis 1:28 
HEB: פְּר֥וּ וּרְב֛וּ וּמִלְא֥וּ אֶת־ הָאָ֖רֶץ
NAS: and multiply, and fill the earth,
KJV: and multiply, and replenish the earth,
INT: to them be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue

 

It looks like only Kjv used the word "replenish"  I think we need someone more familiar with translating to jump in here.  

Strong's is not a dictionary or lexicon. it's a concordance of how words were translated in the KJV. that's an important distinction that's often missed. not pooh-poohing Strong's; it's a great resource, but generally not a resource we should look at for definition -- instead it shows how words have been translated and which verses, and to cross-reference words with similar construction. 
we can get into trouble & mislead if we use Strong's like it is a dictionary, wherever the KJV gets a definition wrong -- because Strong's is specifically just listing how the KJV translates a word. so if KJV is wrong, Strong's may also be wrong, later ((current)) versions of Strong's though do add corrections for many words that are known to be better understood since the KJV was made. 

although in this case it does make your point.
. .  but i always feel it's worth pointing out when someone points at Strong's as though it is a dictionary. i hope no offense taken; i was corrected in this a couple years ago now and it's been a very good thing for me to accept that correction, so that i want to pass the knowledge along to others! 

but here below ((copied from biblehub.com, lest we are guilty of plagiarism!)) is the Brown-Driver-Briggs entry for the same word -- BDB is a lexicon that gives usage and definition. 

it gives the same conclusion -- looks like "replenish" is not a literal meaning of the Hebrew word, but an instance of the KJV translating 'thought-for-thought' rather than 'word-for-word' -- and not that that's a bad thing to do necessarily; it does make sense that here, since we know in the context that life has been wiped off the earth, the injunction to Noah contextually means to 'replenish' -- but what the text literally says is not "replenish" but a word basically meaning "fill" 

((please bear in mind that post does not know Hebrew and does not claim to know Hebrew; post just knows how to look things up and do research. you could rightly say that post knows 'just enough to be dangerous' -- i.e. post could very much be wrong; he is not any kind of expert in this study!))

 

◄ 4390. male or mala ►

Brown-Driver-Briggs מָלֵא249 verb be full, fill (Late Hebrew id. (Pi`el transitive); Zinjirli מלא (Pi`el transitive) DHMSendsch. 60; Assyrian malû (transitive and intransitive) DlHWB 409; Arabic  (transitive) ,  (intransitive); Ethiopic (transitive and intransitive); Aramaic  (transitive), מְלָא (intransitive and transitive), Palmyrene proper name מלא= plenitude, VogPalm 7, 2 and others; Sabean מלא Os14 Levy-OsZMG xix.1863, 211 f. DHMZMG xxix.1875, 595); — Qal99 Perfect ׳מ Exodus 40:34 +; suffix מְלַאוֺ Esther 7:5; מָלֵאתָ Job 36:17; מָלֵאתִי Micah 3:8; Jeremiah 6:11;מָלֵ֫תִי Job 32:18; מָֽלְאוּ Genesis 29:21 +; מָלוּ Ezekiel 28:16 (מָלֵאתָ) ᵐ5 ᵑ6 Co); מָלֵ֑אוּ Isaiah 1:15, etc.;Imperfect3feminine singular suffix חִמְלָאֵ֣מוֺ Exodus 15:9; יִמְלְאוּ Genesis 50:3 2t.; וַיִּמְלְאוּ Genesis 25:24; Genesis 50:3; Imperative מִלְאוּ Genesis 1:22 5t.; Infinitive construct מְלֹאת (מְלֹאות) Leviticus 8:33 12t.; Participle מָלֵאJeremiah 23:24; מְלֵאִים Isaiah 6:1; (compare also below מָלֵא adjective ); — 1 be full, usually with accusative material: a. literally subject houses Exodus 8:17; Exodus 10:6 (both J) Judges 16:27; Isaiah 13:21; 2Chronicles 5:13, compare Ezekiel 10:4 (strike out Co); winepress Joel 4:13; threshing-floor Joel 2:24; vessel 2 Kings 4:6; Job 21:24, etc.; Job 20:22 מְלֹאות (compare מְלֹא), i.e. fulness, abundance. b. figurative, earth full of violence Genesis 6:13, compare Leviticus 19:29 (both P), Micah 6:12; Isaiah 1:15; Jeremiah 23:10; Jeremiah 51:5; Psalm 26:10; Ezekiel 7:23 (twice in verse); Ecclesiastes 9:3, etc.; earth full of glory, mercy, goodness, knowledge, of ׳מ Psalm 33:5; Psalm 119:64; Isaiah 11:9; Habakkuk 3:3; compare also Psalm 48:11; Psalm 104:24, etc.; subject נֶפֶשׁ = desire be satisfied (full) with suffix Exodus 15:9; ׳וְדִין רָשָׁע מ Job 36:17and of judgment on the wicked art thou full (hast thou thy fill), compare Di Du; מָלֵא לֵב לַעֲשׂוֺת רָ֑ע Ecclesiastes 8:11; especially of days, years, be full, accomplished, ended, Genesis 25:24; Genesis 29:21; Genesis 50:3 (twice in verse) (JE); Leviticus 8:33; Leviticus 12:4,6; Leviticus 25:30; Numbers 6:5,13 (P); 1 Samuel 18:26; 2 Samuel 7:12;Jeremiah 25:12; Jeremiah 29:10; Lamentations 4:18; Ezekiel 5:2; 1 Chronicles 17:11; Esther 1:5; Esther 2:12; Daniel 10:3; compare also with other subject (literally) Jeremiah 25:34; Isaiah 40:2. 2 transitive fill, of populating sea and earth Genesis 1:22,28; Genesis 9:1 (all P); consecrate מִלְאוּ יֶדְכֶם ליהוה; (literally fill the hand) Exodus 32:29 (compare below); especially of glory of ׳י filling tabernacle and temple; Exodus 40:34,35 (P) 1 Kings 8:10,11, compare Isaiah 6:1; see also Jeremiah 23:24, especially literal Ezekiel 10:3; Ezekiel 43:5; Ezekiel 44:4; 2Chronicles 5:14; 7:1,2; followed by 2 accusativefill jars (with) water 1 Kings 18:34; absoluteoverflow עַלכָּֿלגְּֿדוֺתָיו ׳מ Joshua 3:15 (compare 1 Chronicles 12:16 Pi`el); figurative fill land with sin Jeremiah 16:18, compare Jeremiah 19:4; Ezekiel 8:17; Ezekiel 28:16, compareEzekiel 30:11; מְלָאוֺ לִבּוֺ לַעֲשׂוֺתכֵּֿן Esther 7:5 (compare Ecclesiastes 8:11 above); מִלְאוּ הַשְּׁלָטִים Jeremiah 51:11 meaning obscure, see [שֶׁלֶט]; Gie proposes ׳מִרְטוּ הַשּׁ polish. Niph`al Perfect נִמְלָאֿ Songs 5:2; Imperfectיִמָּלֵא 2 Samuel 23:7 9t.; וַיִּמָּלֵא Exodus 7:25 5t.; יִמָּֽלְא֫וּ Proverbs 3:10 2t.; יִמָּֽלֵ֑אוּ Proverbs 24:4; יִמָּֽלְאוּן Ezekiel 32:6; — 1 be filled, usually with accusative of material (with מִן of source Ecclesiastes 1:8, compare Ezekiel 32:6; with לְHabakkuk 2:14); land, with people Exodus 1:7; compare 2 Kings 3:17,20; Isaiah 2:7 (twice in verse); Isaiah 2:8; house with smoke Isaiah 6:4, compare Ezekiel 10:4; see also Proverbs 3:10; Proverbs 24:4; Jeremiah 13:12 (twice in verse); Zechariah 8:5; Songs 5:2; Ecclesiastes 11:3; 2 Kings 10:21; Ezekiel 32:6; = be armed 2 Samuel 23:7 (literallybe filled or fill himself, i.e. his hand, with weapon, compare Pi`el 2); be satisfied, subject נֶפֶשׁ = appetiteEcclesiastes 6:7; subject אֹזֶן Ecclesiastes 1:8; figurative earth filled with violence (compare Qal) Genesis 6:11, compare Ezekiel 9:9; Ezekiel 23:33; with glory and knowledge of ׳י Numbers 14:21; Habakkuk 2:14; Psalm 72:19; see also 1 Kings 7:14; Psalm 71:8; Psalm 126:2; Esther 3:5; Esther 5:9; Proverbs 20:17; absoluteEzekiel 26:2 (but Co below מָלֵא adjective , so ᵐ5 ᵑ7) Ezekiel 27:25. 2 be accomplished, ended, subject days Exodus 7:25; of an exchange, requital, Job 15:32. Pi`el112 Perfect מִלֵּא Exodus 35:35 +; מִלָּא Jeremiah 51:34; מִלֵּאתָ Deuteronomy 6:11 +; מִלְאוּ Numbers 32:11 +, etc.; Imperfect יְמַלֵּא Leviticus 8:33 +; יְמַלֵּה֗֗֗ Job 8:21; וַיְמַלְאוּ Genesis 42:25; Exodus 39:10; יְמַלֵּ֑אוּ Ezekiel 7:19, etc.; Imperative מַלֵּא Genesis 29:27 5t.; מַלְאוּ Jeremiah 4:5; Ezekiel 9:7; Infinitive construct מַלֵּא Exodus 29:29 5t.;מַלְּאוֺת (אֹת-) Exodus 31:5 5t.; suffix מַלְּאָם Jeremiah 33:5; Participle מְמַלֵּא Jeremiah 13:13; 1 Chronicles 12:15; plural מְמַלְאִים Isaiah 65:11 2t.; — 1 fill (often with 2 accusative; literal, with בְּ 2 Kings 9:24; Ezra 9:11; Job 40:31; with מִן Jeremiah 51:34; Psalm 127:5):Genesis 21:19; Genesis 24:16; Genesis 26:15; Genesis 42:25; Genesis 44:1; Exodus 2:16; Deuteronomy 6:11;Joshua 9:13; 1 Kings 18:35; 1 Kings 20:27; 2 Kings 3:25; 2 Kings 23:14; Isaiah 23:2; Job 3:15; Job 22:18; Jeremiah 41:9; Ezekiel 3:3; Ezekiel 7:19; Ezekiel 9:7; Ezekiel 10:2; Ezekiel 24:4; Nahum 2:13; Haggai 2:7; Psalm 129:7; 2Chronicles 16:14, etc. (indefinite subject); fill (cup) with drink for libation Isaiah 65:11; figurative fill with spirit Exodus 28:3; Exodus 31:3; Exodus 35:31 compare Exodus 35:35, Psalm 107:9; Isaiah 33:5; Jeremiah 15:17; fill (with blood) 2 Kings 21:16; with abominations Ezra 9:11 (with בְּ ). 2 special uses are: satisfy appetite Job 38:39; Psalm 17:14; Proverbs 6:30; Job 20:23; Jeremiah 51:14(figurative); take a handful of כַּמּוֺ מִן ׳מ Leviticus 9:17; grasp יָדוֺ בְּ ׳מ 2 Kings 9:24, compare (of laying arrow on bow) figurative הַקֶּשֶׁת בְּאֶפְרַיִם ׳מ Zechariah 9:13; overflow מְמַלֵּא עַלכָּֿלגְּֿד֯יֹתָיו 1 Chronicles 12:16 (compareJoshua 3:15 Qal); give in full וַיְמַלְאוּם לַמֶּלֶךְ 1 Samuel 18:27 (read וַיְמַלְּאֵם A ᵐ5L ᵑ9 We Dr Kit Bu); ׳מִלֵּא יַד מּ figurative forinstitute to a priestly office, consecrate Exodus 28:41; Exodus 29:9,29,33,35; Leviticus 8:33; Leviticus 16:32;Leviticus 21:10; Numbers 3:3; Judges 17:5,12; 1 Kings 13:33; Ezekiel 43:26 (altar), 1 Chronicles 29:5; 2Chronicles 13:9; 29:31 (compare Assyrian umallu ‡atu, confer upon, DlHWB 409); אַחֲרֵי ׳מ wholly follow ׳י Numbers 14:24;Numbers 32:11,12; Deuteronomy 1:36; Joshua 14:8,9,14; 1 Kings 11:6; fill in, i.e. set precious stones Exodus 28:17(בּוֺ מִלֻּאַת אֶבֶן ׳מ) compare Exodus 31:5; Exodus 35:33; Exodus 39:10 (all P); etc. 3 fulfil, accomplish, complete, object week, year, day, Genesis 29:27,28; Exodus 23:26; Isaiah 65:20; Job 39:2; 2Chronicles 36:21; Daniel 9:2; object word, promise, etc.; subject ׳י 1 Kings 8:15,24; 2Chronicles 6:4,15; Psalm 20:5;Psalm 20:6; subject men 1 Kings 2:27; Jeremiah 44:25; 2Chronicles 36:21. 4 confirm words 1 Kings 1:14. Pu`al Participle filled, i.e. set with jewels מְמֻלָּאִים בַּתַּרְשִׁישׁ Songs 5:14. Hithpa`el Imperfect עָלַי יִתְמַלָּא֑וּן Job 16:10, mass themselves against me; perhaps denominative from מְלֹא 2 [מְלָא] verb fill (see Biblical Hebrew); — Pe`al Perfect3feminine singular מְלַאת Daniel 2:35 (with accusative). Hithpe`el Perfect3masculine singular הִתְמְלִי חֱמָא Daniel 3:19 was filled with rage. [מַלְאַךְ] see לאך. מִלָּה see מלל. below,

[HAZARD]

 

Moses’ teaching on the overthrow of the Pre-Adamite world.

In Gen 1:2 we have the fact that the Earth was in existence before the Spirit of God began to move, (brood) upon the face of the waters which covered the Earth. The conjunction “and” is used to connect about 200 separate acts of God in Gen. 1 and 2. These acts are all equally independent and important. Verse 2 is as independent of verse 1 as are all other separate acts of God in these two chapters. In verse 1 we have the original creation of the heavens and the Earth, and in verse 2, we have the original perfect Earth made chaos and flooded with water which destroyed all lifeon the Earth.

The word “was” in verse 2 is from the Hebrew bayah, which is a verb to become, not the verb to be. It is translated became 67 times (Gen. 2:7; 19:26; 20:12; 24:67; Ex. 4:3-4; Num. 12:10; ect.); becamest (1 Chron. 17:22; Ezek. 16:8) ; came and  came to pass 505 times (Gen. 4:3; 6:1, 4; 11:2, 5; etc.) become 66 times (Gen. 3:22; 18:18; 48:19; etc.) come (and come to pass 131 times (Gen. 4:14; 6:13; 18-20; 27:40 etc.); and many times be in the sense of become (Gen. 1:3, 6, 9, 14: 3:5; etc.).

The phrase without form is from the Hebrew tohu, which means waste, desolation, or confusion. It is translated wast (Deut. 32:10); without form (Gen.1:2, Jer.4:23); vain (Isa. 45:18; 1 Sam. 12:21); confusion Isa. 24:10; 34:11; 41:29); empty (Job 26:7); vanity (Isa. 40:17, 23; 44:9; 59:4); nothing (Job. 6:18; Isa. 40:17); and wilderness (Job 12:24; Ps. 107:40).

It can be seen from these passages what the word really means and what the condition of the Earth was in Gen. 1:2. God did not originally create the Earth in such a waste and ruined state. It is definitely stated in Isa. 45:18 that God did not create the Earth tohu (vain, or desolate), yet in Gen 1:2 the Earth was tohu. If the Earth was not originally created desolate, then it must have been created, inhabited, and later became desolate. Even the English verb “was” proves that it had to become desolate before it could be desolate.

The Hebrew word for void is bohu, which means empty, ruin or void. It is translated viod (Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23) and emptiness (Isa. 34:11). The Hebrew phrase tohu va bohu (wast and ruin, or desolate and empty) describes the chaotic conditions of the Earth since “the beginning” and before the six days of the reconstruction of Gen. 1:3-2:25. God did not create the Earth a ruin or a wast. It became so because of sin.

We can read Gen. 1:1-2 literally thus:

“In the beginning [by periods, ages] God created the heavens and the Earth. And the Earth became wast and ruin [desolate and empty]; and darkness was upon the face of the waters.” In these verses we have the whole span of the creative ages taking in all the original creation of the heavens and the Earth and all things therein to the six days of restoration of the Earth to a habitable state. The original creations include the sun, moon, and stars.

In these two verses alone we have the facts that in the dateless past God created the heavens, including the sun, moon, and stars, and then the Earth; that the heavens, were created before the Earth;  the waters; and that the darkness were all created before the spirit began to brood over the waters; and that these things were already in existence before the first of the six days, proving that they were not created in any one of those days.

How long the Earth was a waste and a ruin or desolate and empty since its original habitation is not known. How long it was in existence and inhabited before it became desolate and empty is not known, but why and when it was cursed and became desolate and empty is known and clearly revealed in Scripture. In Scripture all cases of obscuring the sun and bringing consequent darkness, and all cases of floods are a result of Judgment and never of an acts of creation, unless it be Gen. 1:2; and we have no authority on which to believe that this is an exception. Why could not Gen. 1;2 be a result of a curse, as is clear of all other floods and darkness on the Earth, as revealed in Gen. 6-8; Ex. 10:21-23; Isa. 5:30; 13:10; Jer. 4:23-26; Amos 5:18-20; Zeph. 1:15; Joel 2:30-3: 16; Matt. 8:12; 9:2; 16:10.

The fact that Moses by inspiration said that God told Adam, to multiply and replenish the Earth proves that there was a social system on the Earth before Adam, for he could not replenish something that had been plenished before. Some argue that the Hebrew word for replenish means fill and not refill, but this proves nothing. An examination of all the places where the word replenish is used disproves this. Suppose we make the word replenish mean plenish in Gen. 9:1; Isa. 2:6; 23:2; Jer. 31:25; Ezek. 26:2; 27:25, and note the results. Where the Hebrew word mala is translated fill, it does not mean that the thing referred to had never been filled before. For example, when Joseph commanded his bretheren to “fill their sacks,” does this mean that those sack had never been filled before? They had no doubt been filled many times. See Gen. 42:25; 44:1; 1 Kings 18:33; Hag. 2:7 etc. To say, “Fill that glass with water” does not prove that ithad never been filled before, but to say, “Refill that glass with water” proves that it had been filled before. When God said to Noah, “be fruitfull and multiply, and replenish the earth” Gen. 9:1, it is clear that the Earth had been plenished before, so why not believe that God meant the same thing when He said it to Adam? The same Hebrew statement is found in both passages (Gen. 1;28; 9:1),and it is translated exactly the same in English, so would it be wrong to believe that it means the same thing? If the Earth had been plenished before Adam, then it was overthrown by judgment before the six days, as is shown in Gen.1;2.

I can give Peter's and even Jesus' teaching on this if required, but is sure is time consuming.

[Omegaman 3.0]

22 hours ago, other one said:

LoL    so you are not accusing me of posting something untrue? 

Well, sure I did, but only because you posted that John said let the plagiarism begin. When I looked at what he posted, it said "let the cut and paste begin".

I was quite clear why I did what I did. Recently, you offered to me, in a private message, and explanation that if find plausible, and am inclined to believe.

So now, accordingly, I do apologize for pointing out that you appeared to be misrepresenting what John had originally said.

Now, to make this clear:

I publicly apologize to you, other one, for saying something that could damage your reputation here at the forums, especially since as and administrator here, a few might tend to think that I have credibility that you do not have. So, if anyone thought the worse of other one because of what I wrote, I would consider it a favor, if you did not, and consider this, a retraction.