When Michael stands up

[Montana Marv]

26 minutes ago, ghtan said:

Is there scripture that shows the devil in heaven after the resurrection?

Rev 6:2 ... I Looked, and there before me was a white horse.  Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.  Angels do not wear crowns, but this individual/angel was given a crown.  Satan wants to be worshiped and be like the "Most High".

Now, if Satan is not in Heaven now and accusing us before the Father; We then have no need for an Advocate (Jesus Christ).

In Christ

Montana Marv

[other one]

4 hours ago, ghtan said:

Is there scripture that shows the devil in heaven after the resurrection?

Revelation chapter 12...

[ghtan]

13 hours ago, Montana Marv said:

Rev 6:2 ... I Looked, and there before me was a white horse.  Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.  Angels do not wear crowns, but this individual/angel was given a crown.  Satan wants to be worshiped and be like the "Most High".

Now, if Satan is not in Heaven now and accusing us before the Father; We then have no need for an Advocate (Jesus Christ).

In Christ

Montana Marv

The horsemen are symbols of events that will happen on earth. They are not realities in themselves, i.e. I don't think there will actually be horsemen released in heaven when the great tribulation begins on earth. Those symbols simply replace words.

God knows our sins even if Satan does not accuse us. E.g. it is unlikely the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah were brought to God's attention by Satan. Jesus acts as our advocate as Moses did when he pleaded for Israel.

Blessings.

[ghtan]

9 hours ago, other one said:

Revelation chapter 12...

Thanks. That's all I needed to know.

[Last Daze]

On 6/7/2016 at 7:12 AM, Montana Marv said:

Rev 6:2 ... I Looked, and there before me was a white horse.  Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.  Angels do not wear crowns, but this individual/angel was given a crown.  Satan wants to be worshiped and be like the "Most High".

 

Satan wears seven of them.  He is an angel.  There is a hierarchy in the domain of darkness and its not unreasonable that these supernatural princes and kings are seen as having crowns which represent their power and authority.  The white horse rider, in my estimation, is the angelic prince which brought about Rome.  When the first seal is opened, he is released from the abyss.

[WilliamL]

On 6/6/2016 at 5:25 PM, Sister said:

On 6/6/2016 at 1:36 PM, WilliamL said:

Rev. 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down. 11 “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death.

Jesus rose 3 days after his blood, "the blood of the Lamb," was shed, during which time the disciples were hiding and confused. There is no way that "they" overcame anybody by the word of their testimony during this period, let alone Satan and all his angelic host.

Hi William

They overcame him (starting with the apostles to all end time believers) by "the blood of the lamb".  His death and resurrection.

You dodged the issue, Sister. You previously said " Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven when Jesus rose from the dead, ....that same day." Now you are saying that this verse applies to "end time believers" who cast him down -- my position exactly, BTW. You can't have both. 

[WilliamL]

On 6/6/2016 at 7:58 PM, ghtan said:

On 6/6/2016 at 1:26 PM, WilliamL said:

So explain to us -- since neither you nor anyone else has, although I have challenged you to do so -- the exact relationship you see with the sun (Jacob), moon (Rachel and/or Leah), and the 12 sons of Israel (stars):

these being, respectively, Jacob clothing the Woman giving birth, his wife being under her feet, and his sons being upon her head. Explain to us how you make sense of all this.

Walk your talk, in other words.

Our problem with interpretation is often of our own making. We try to read too much into the text. The woman reminds readers of Israel due to Gen 37:9. Jesus was born a Jew. It is as simple as that. 

So you also dodged the question. If one cannot provide substantive evidence to support one's own position, one should not act so sure that some other position is incorrect.

Every part of this passage about the vision of the Woman has a specific meaning: God does not waste words. A patchwork-quilt eschatology --with some patches missing -- is a highly suspect eschatology.

[Sister]

7 minutes ago, WilliamL said:

You dodged the issue, Sister. You previously said " Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven when Jesus rose from the dead, ....that same day." Now you are saying that this verse applies to "end time believers" who cast him down -- my position exactly, BTW. You can't have both. 

Hi William

Satan and his angels were cast out of heaven when Jesus rose from the dead period.  The saints that have overcome, because of what Jesus accomplished is wrapping it all up, starting from the apostles to the end time saints.  It's a prophecy in a prophecy mixed with past and future.

When a saint comes to the end of his life, and he has held on to Christ all the way not denying him even in times of persecution or oppression from the enemy, then he has overcome.  He has stayed true.  Well all those that have died "in Christ" have their name written in the Lambs book of life, but us....we are not dead yet, we still have time to prove our faith.  A testimony is not worth anything until the testator dies.  Then he can say he made it all the way.

[WilliamL]

On 6/6/2016 at 5:32 PM, Sister said:

On 6/6/2016 at 0:31 PM, other one said:

I see nowhere that he has been sent to earth and has to stay here..

other one

Revelation 12:9   And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

 

  Revelation 12:12   Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

 

Jesus spoke this just before his death.

John 12:31   Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

 John 14:30   Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

Note that the former passages talk about Satan being cast "into the earth," whereas the latter do not.

Remember, there are more than one heaven. Satan is presently called "the prince of the power of the air" (Eph. 2:2), not the earth. It is reasonable to presume that Satan was cast down to the lowest heaven during the First Coming, but not the earth.

[Sister]

1 minute ago, WilliamL said:

Note that the former passages talk about Satan being cast "into the earth," whereas the latter do not.

Remember, there are more than one heaven. Satan is presently called "the prince of the power of the air" (Eph. 2:2), not the earth. It is reasonable to presume that Satan was cast down to the lowest heaven during the First Coming, but not the earth.

William

Jesus spoke this just before his death.  Now mean't soon, as Satan was just about to perform his ultimate rebellion. 

Satan is in our "air", meaning he's invisible.  You can't see air, but he's there......otherwise who's he going to deceive in the "air" when men are down here on earth.  He's not deceiving martians, but us.