Revelation 12 ( 7-11 )

[OakWood]

8 minutes ago, Sister said:

Oakwood

Yes we know Jesus was born roughly 2000 years ago, and I know we are in the end times now.  That still doesn't answer my question.  Why a two thousand year gap between Jesus's resurrection and Satan being thrown out of heaven?  Are there any scriptures to suggest this?

You asked if I am aware of history at all?  I already explained that at the time Revelation was written, Jesus death and resurrection had already happened.  So when the "man child" was taken up to God and his throne, it only makes sense that this verse in Rev 12 is not giving us new knowledge of what was to come, but an account of what already happened - the resurrection of Christ.

 

No we are not living in paradise.  Paradise will be the kingdom during the millennium.  I don't see what this has to do with what we are speaking of?  This is another subject and will take us all over the place.

I just want an answer or a scripture as to why Satan was thrown out of heaven 2000 odd years later after Christ's resurrection and not straight away?  Why 2000 years later?  Where did this come from?

Satan was thrown out of heaven when he rebelled with his angels which actually dates back to Genesis or even before... so your claim that he was thrown out of heaven when Jesus was crucified or resurrected has no basis in fact. The OT even tells us that Satan had been thrown out of heaven.

However, he is free to return - he just lost his home that's all. The Book of Job mentions at least one of his visits. An evicted man can still return to the house that he lived in if the present occupiers allow him visiting access. He just can't dwell there anymore.

Revelation tells us that he will be cast out again (probably once and for all with no rights to return).

 

[ghtan]

I too think nothing in the text warrants a time jump between verse 5 and 6. Therefore according to verse 7 Satan has already been cast down, presumably at the resurrection, and no longer has access to heaven. We should be thankful for that. Btw I am not a preterist.

[Dave Watchman]

2 hours ago, Sister said:

Jesus returned later that evening to meet with his apostles, and they touched his hands, therefore he had already been taken up to his Father and returned all in the one day.  This is the exact day I can see with my understanding that Satan and his angels were thrown out of heaven.  Jesus exercised his authority on that day, and showed Satan he was no longer welcome. 

Sounds like what Jesus was saying in John 12:31:

"Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

This means we can't be the woman from Revelation 12, she was the Fox Book story. We are the offspring of the woman. The dragon couldn't kill the woman during the middle ages so he became furious and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring.

These two groups of saints are confirmed at the fifth seal. The souls beneath the alter are the Fox Book woman from the middle ages. They are resting a little longer waiting for the second group of saints to join them there. We are the woman's offspring, those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.

[Prophet Cam]

You'll know when this dragon comes here, believe me.  That is why the Lord is directing His saints to this scripture for now.  The evil isn't going to be comprehend-able and so bad, His saints will cry out to the Lord, Blood of Jesus!  Blood of Jesus!  Blood of Jesus!  That is all you can do when faced with so much more than you can possibly handle.  Many of you will have a place prepared for you in the wilderness for 3.5 years because its going to be much too dangerous..

Revelation 12:11   And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.    

^{Revelation 12:6} And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

 

 

 

[other one]

17 hours ago, ghtan said:

I too think nothing in the text warrants a time jump between verse 5 and 6. Therefore according to verse 7 Satan has already been cast down, presumably at the resurrection, and no longer has access to heaven. We should be thankful for that. Btw I am not a preterist.

I don't see a time jump for the entire chapter......   and the context of it is a vision in heaven and the devil being thrown down....   then the devil attacks the woman with a flood of water that the earth swallows up.....   haven't seen any of that happening yet.   I have a problem with the devil having a short time and that time dragging into 2,000 years.

There is a vision in heaven that points to the devil being thrown to earth and not allowed to leave....   and a little future history about what the devil is going to do when he gets here and is quoted as to being a short time from the throw down.

I don't see this as happened either in scripture or in history...

We'll see by the end of next year....

[douggg]

On 6/7/2016 at 2:22 PM, GodsSecretary said:

Revelation 12   7   And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, 

8   And prevailed not, neither was their place found any more in heaven.   9    And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world:  he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

10   And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength , and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ; for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before God day and night.   11    And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.  

Verses 1-5    a set of introductory verses to identify the woman as Israel.

Verse 6    the woman is in the wilderness figuratively having received the Antichrist, thing that he is the messiah.    The two witnesses are testifying to Israel during this time, the 1260 days the first half of the 7 years.

Verses 7-11   the two witnesses have been killed.   The last straw for God's patience, time has come to take back the world from Satan's influence.   Fist step in the process, cast Satan and his angels down to earth.

Verse 12-17   Satan is on earth for a time, times, and half times, (roughly three and a half years) the great tribulation, seeking to destroy Israel and the Jews - the second half of the seven years. 

 

Edited June 12, 2016 by douggg
correct some spelling

[ghtan]

10 hours ago, other one said:

I don't see a time jump for the entire chapter......   and the context of it is a vision in heaven and the devil being thrown down....   then the devil attacks the woman with a flood of water that the earth swallows up.....   haven't seen any of that happening yet.   I have a problem with the devil having a short time and that time dragging into 2,000 years.

There is a vision in heaven that points to the devil being thrown to earth and not allowed to leave....   and a little future history about what the devil is going to do when he gets here and is quoted as to being a short time from the throw down.

I don't see this as happened either in scripture or in history...

We'll see by the end of next year....

A thousand years to us is like a day to God....

[Prophet Cam]

I'm telling you guys its going to be far worse than ever imagined in America soon.  Americans are going to be hunted down like criminals (from being out of control, rioting) by our own military because of frustration from getting "overrun" by ISIS like military gangs.  Are they going to be given tanks by the global elites too?  Soon "millions will be engaged in mortal combat" on our own soil. Many should leave, Minnesota might be a safe place.. I was given Michelle Bauchman's house as an example of a safely built home prepared for the worst.  

If the American people new what Obama has done behind the scenes, he would be hung for treason on the White House lawn.  Yesterday during the Trump rally in Florida D. Trump said "The USA are bringing in a shocking number of young male migrants from the middle east.  Where are all the woman and children?"  

I saw it all come to an end and our republic was saved, but this will be worse than the Civil War, and Revolutionary War.  

[Sister]

On 11/06/2016 at 0:22 PM, Dave Watchman said:

Sounds like what Jesus was saying in John 12:31:

"Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

Amen Dave Watchman.  It's so clear.

Quote

This means we can't be the woman from Revelation 12, she was the Fox Book story. We are the offspring of the woman. The dragon couldn't kill the woman during the middle ages so he became furious and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring.

Yes, we are definately not the woman in Rev 12.  Nor is Israel.  For she is God's woman, his doctrine.  Not a real woman, but his doctrine is depicted as a woman because a woman multiplies and nourishes her children.  Jesus was born of this woman (came out of God's doctrine)

  John 7:16   Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
 

Quote

These two groups of saints are confirmed at the fifth seal. The souls beneath the alter are the Fox Book woman from the middle ages. They are resting a little longer waiting for the second group of saints to join them there. We are the woman's offspring, those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus.

I see the saints waiting under the altar as the 144,000. 

 Revelation 11:1   And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

 Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

There are those who worship with their lips, and those who worship with their hearts.  There will be a separation, a sifting amongst the believers.  God knows who the true believers are standing in the end times.

Revelation 7:3   Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

Revelation 7:4   And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

 

Revelation 13:5   And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Revelation 13:7   And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

compare;

 Revelation 11:2   But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Whoever is in the court will be trampled on.  Whoever is found worshiping "at the altar", will not be trodden on.  There is only 144,000 sealed for this time, and no more.

 Revelation 14:4   These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Those in the court are the lip servers.  They still have stains on their robes, and must go through the fire (tribulation) to have their robes washed clean.  They did not follow all of Christ's commandments, and therefore only those faithful saints who did, are the ones standing with white robes at the altar and do not need to go through the fire.  There is not many.  Just a very small flock.  This is how I see it.  Notice they are already sealed just before the 7 trumpets begin?

[Jonah'sJourney]

If Satan's casting down in verse 9 is a consequence of the Resurrection, who are those in verse 10 who "overcame him (past tense, aorist active indicative) because of the blood of the Lamb"? Since the blood of the Lamb refers to the death of Christ, that would mean they overcame Satan by means of the crucifixion prior to the crucifixion.

Also, according to 1:1, 3, the book has to do with future events, not past events.