Is there really a rapture?

[Running Gator]

1 minute ago, Ezra said:

Well Pseudo-Ephraem is Pseudo-Bible Truth.  Let's stick with the Word of God.

I am good with that.  Though, if the bible were perfectly clear on this issue there would not be threads on this forum in defense of at least 3 different points of view.  

[Marcus O'Reillius]

18 hours ago, Out of the Shadows said:

The doctrine of the rapture or anything like it is fairly young as Christiny goes.  There is no mention of anything like it prior to the mid 1800's in any Christian literature, going back to the first churches.

In the history of Christianity, the first eschatological position that was taken is called "Historical Pre-Millennialism" and it did contain a Rapture.
Until the 1800's underscores the influence of the Roman Catholic Church with its Ammillennial view put forth by Augustine and that was still accepted by reformers such as John Calvin centuries later.
While Luther began the Protestant Reformation, even the Lutheran Church, a Protestant denomination, remains Ammillennial in its eschatological view.

Between the Protestant Reformation and the Industrial Revolution, Protestantism was often under real attack in Europe.  
This is also a time when new thinking slowly begins to evolve from the Renaissance through the Enlightenment of the 1700's.
It is my opinion that there is a spiritual awakening that happened coincidental to the Industrial Revolution, which I personally think is an outgrowth of the opening of the first Seal.

So no mention of it doesn't mean it isn't there.  It was the official position of the RCC and like Sunday worship, it remained as a foundational stone of the church.

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, Ezra said:

That's a separate issue.  The important thing is that five were wise, and in fact all can be wise if they will give heed to the Gospel.

The parable of the 10 virgins is germane to the return of Christ.

• Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.  Matthew 25:1

There's no tap-dancing around the main point which is that those waiting for the bridegroom need to be prepared for the long haul.  Being ready and alert for His return is emphasized by Jesus over and over again.  Anything that goes against what Jesus taught should be rejected.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

23 hours ago, Out of the Shadows said:

We are told that some would be left behind, and that it would be like in the days of Noah and the days of Lot.  In both the days of Noah and the days of Lot, the people left behind were the good people, not the evil doers.  So, if the meeting in the sky with Jesus is the same as the days of Noah and Lot, you want to be one of those left behind. 

Actually, to echo Ezra, Noah was 'taken' (into) the ark.  Lot was physically removed from Sodom by angelic aid.  Both were rescued from His Wrath with God's assistance.

"Taken" in the NT is paralambano, and that is also the word which is translated when we "receive" Christ as in our inheritance.

In 1Th 3:13, Jesus comes with the hagios, or holy (set in the plural in the inflected Greek) which is translated as Saints.
In 1Th 4:16-17, Paul teaches that the Dead in Christ are raised first, and then we meet them in the air.
Thus, the previous mention in 3:13 represents an "observer-true" position of one of the Elect who is still alive and remains (after the Great Tribulation) seeing Jesus come with those resurrected from Paradise, a place of rest.

The wheat and tares parable of Mt 13 has the first explanation that the wheat removed to the barn of Heaven before the tares are burned in the field of this world.
This aptly describes the action which happens on the Day of the Lord: Rescue-then-Wrath with fire from the first Trumpet following.  (I am Pre-Wrath.)

The following explanation of the parable has a slight switch: the tares are eliminated from the KINGDOM by being thrown into the fire (of Hell).
The distinction here is that the removal is from the Kingdom - which encompasses both Heaven and earth.  This is done after the Millennium at the second Resurrection.
Likewise, the parable of the fish in the net being separated into good and bad reflects the test of being "in the book" in Revelation 20:13-15.

So you do want to be "taken" if you are lucky enough to make it through the Great Tribulation so as to be alive and remain when the Day of the Lord comes at an unknown time.

If you are left behind - the only hope you have for eternal life is to have not taken the 'mark of the beast,' nor worshiped his image and to die as a Martyr for your testimony of Jesus.  That should be pretty easy to do with the crowd you'll be left with because they will all hate God, especially after the devastation brought by the first Trumpet, which should mess things up for a year or so for them.

[Ezra]

3 hours ago, Last Daze said:

The parable of the 10 virgins is germane to the return of Christ.

• Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.  Matthew 25:1

There's no tap-dancing around the main point which is that those waiting for the bridegroom need to be prepared for the long haul.  Being ready and alert for His return is emphasized by Jesus over and over again.  Anything that goes against what Jesus taught should be rejected.

There is no question that all the teaching regarding the Rapture exhorts Christians to be always ready to leave the earth. That automatically excludes carelessness and negligence of our responsibilities as Christians. All can be ready and all should be wise.

[Last Daze]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

There is no question that all the teaching regarding the Rapture return of Jesus exhorts Christians to be always ready to leave the earth. That automatically excludes carelessness and negligence of our responsibilities as Christians. All can be ready and all should be wise.

We're pretty close. 

[Running Gator]

4 hours ago, Last Daze said:

We're pretty close. 

I like your editing.  Whether you are pre, mid, post or no rapture you still need to be always ready for the return of Jesus.

[Revelation Man]

On 6/22/2016 at 1:23 PM, Out of the Shadows said:

The doctrine of the rapture or anything like it is fairly young as Christiny goes.  There is no mention of anything like it prior to the mid 1800's in any Christian literature, going back to the first churches. This does not mean it is a false doctrine, but it is a new one, and one that has been spread almost exclusively in the West and especially in America. 

It is not an essential doctrine for a Christian, which is evident by the fact those that think there will be one cannot decide when it will be.   We are told in the parable of the sowers that the evil ones will be gathered up and thrown into the fire, so perhaps if there is a great meeting in the sky you will not want to be a part of it.

Those that say the word Rapture was invented 150 some odd years ago are ill informed. Paul used the Greek word Harpazo, it means to be caught up, or seized/taken away. In the Latin Translation of the bible, the word used was Rapio meaning caught up, or seized/taken away, of course the English word Rapture comes from Rapio. So the word Rapture has the exact same meaning as Harpazo, they just pretend like it was invented 150 years ago.

In the Greek New Testament, the word harpazo is found a total of 17 times in 13 different verses. Each time harpazo is used this verb refers to a quick or sudden often violently physical “snatching away” or “catching away” of a person, a thing, or an idea. More important is the fact that in 5 of these 17 times harpazo is used in the New Testament harpazo ALWAYS refers to the literal physical (bodily) removal of a faithfully righteous human being from one place to another, or from one sphere of existence to another. The 5 times harpazo is used involving faithfully righteous people are when:

1. Philip is harpazo’d from the presence of the Ethiopian eunuch to a different location miles away (see Acts 8:39, AKJV)

2. Paul is harpazo’d from the Earth to the Third Heaven (see 2 Corinthians 12:2, AKJV)

3. Paul is harpazo’d from the Earth to the Third Heaven; second reference (see 2 Corinthians 12:4, AKJV)

4. Bride of Christ is harpazo’d from the Earth to the clouds to meet Her Groom (Christ Jesus) in the air (see 1 Thessalonians 4:17, AKJV); the understanding here is that the Bride will be taken to Heaven to be with Her Groom

5. Christ Jesus is harpazo’d from Bethany near the Mount of Olives to His Throne in Heaven (see Revelation 12:5; cf. Luke 24:50-51; Acts 1:9; AKJV)

Each one of the above five supernaturally powerful acts of the Holy Spirit by which literal bodily removals of humans either from one place to another on Earth or from off of this Earth to Heaven proves that the Rapture is a biblically sound doctrine. In fact, the English words Rapture and Raptured actually are derived from the Latin verb rapio (catch up or take away), and rapio is used in the Latin Vulgate Bible (also referred to as The Vulgate).

The point here is that many of America’s English words, like Rapture and Raptured, etc., are derived from words found in the Latin Vulgate Bible—the most commonly used translation of the Holy Bible. St Jerome’s late 4th-century A.D. revised Latin translation of the old Latin Biblical Texts became The Vulgate, and The Vulgate was used over 1,000 years before the Protestant Reformation started! In essence, no other Holy Bible translation has been used longer than the Latin Vulgate Bible, and that includes the highly promoted Authorized King James Version (AKJV)!

God Bless, hope this sheds some light on the subject.

[DARRELX]

On 6/23/2016 at 1:43 AM, missmuffet said:

Yes, there is really a rapture. That is what the Bible tells me. The rapture of the Church before the seven year tribulation and the second coming at the end of the seven year tribulation are two different events.

I am more inclined to believe that there is no rapture like in the Left Behind books but that when Jesus returns then the world is destroyed. 

2 Peter  3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

5 hours ago, DARRELX said:

2 Peter  3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

As an observer-true point of view, with the fire that burns a third of the earth with the 1st Trumpet, this certainly is true for the Day of the Lord.

But as in the fable of the five blind men examining an elephant, the Day of the Lord has many different sides and events happening with it.

How shall Jesus come as a thief?  
He is the strongman who can bind Satan and steal from his very grasp which he wants to destroy because he can't get to the last of the Jews, the most precious commodity on the earth: the Elect.