A Time, Times, and Half a Time

[Last Daze]

6 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

?  That's the reality of the Day of the Lord's Wrath.

For the Great Tribulation we need to look at Mt 24.

And at Rev 7.

 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

Since the quote about 'man being more rare than the gold of Ophir' comes from Isaiah (I think off the top of my head) - how so does Rev 7 apply as you're using it?

Edited July 9, 2016 by Marcus O'Reillius

[Ezra]

16 hours ago, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Don't the King of the North and the King of the South do battle in WWIII that takes a third of all remaining life present in the field of this world?

And aren't the three major Kingdoms in charge of their respective lands when God leads them all to Armageddon to do battle with each other?

These battles you mention precede reign of the Antichrist.  And the Antichrist brings all the enemies of Christ together at Armageddon.

But as already noted, his power is limited to 3 1/2 years, following which we have the second half of Daniel's 70th week, which coincides with the Day of the Lord, as well as the Great Tribulation (the 7th trumpet judgements). 

It would be presumptuous to imagine that we know precisely how everything will play out.  But we do have the broad outlines.

[George]

16 minutes ago, Ezra said:

These battles you mention precede reign of the Antichrist.

Personally, I see Daniel 11 as the means by which He is known both as a "man of war" (Revelation) and a "man of peace"!  How can you do both?  and wipe out 1/3 of mankind while you're at it.   Unless he was actually making war against Islam.  Thus perhaps setting up Ezekiel 38-39.  How can Israel be at "perfect peace' with no walls or gates -- unless you dealt with Islam?  Notice carefully --

Dan 11:44  But news from the east and the north shall alarm him, and he shall go out with great fury to destroy and devote many to destruction.

Think about it! 

[Marcus O'Reillius]

2 hours ago, Ezra said:

These battles you mention precede reign of the Antichrist.  And the Antichrist brings all the enemies of Christ together at Armageddon.

But as already noted, his power is limited to 3 1/2 years, following which we have the second half of Daniel's 70th week, which coincides with the Day of the Lord, as well as the Great Tribulation (the 7th trumpet judgements). 

It would be presumptuous to imagine that we know precisely how everything will play out.  But we do have the broad outlines.

I have an outline.  The Second Woe is after the midpoint, the Great Tribulation, and the Harvest of Rev 7.  The anti-Christ, like any good Roman, is constantly at war: even against his own people whom he oppresses and later kills.

God's granting of authority is for 42 months.  After the midpoint, God is in control; His first response: the Two Witnesses who cannot be overcome by man.  Then the strongman comes: Jesus.  Then God's desolations, working at first just in thirds, cripple the world, then devastate it, and then, with the Bowl Judgments, completely destroy it until only a fraction, less than 1% survive.

[WilliamL]

On 7/9/2016 at 10:22 AM, Ezra said:

On 7/8/2016 at 5:35 PM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

Don't the King of the North and the King of the South do battle in WWIII that takes a third of all remaining life present in the field of this world?

And aren't the three major Kingdoms in charge of their respective lands when God leads them all to Armageddon to do battle with each other?

These battles you mention precede reign of the Antichrist.  And the Antichrist brings all the enemies of Christ together at Armageddon.

If you are calling the Beast the Antichrist, then yes, they do precede them.

On 7/9/2016 at 10:22 AM, Ezra said:

But as already noted, his power is limited to 3 1/2 years...

A common misperception, based upon Rev. 13:

13:4 ...they worshiped the beast, saying, “Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?” 5 And was given to it [the Beast] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and was given to it/him [the mouth] authority to continue for forty-two months [= 3 1/2 times/years]. 6 Then it/he opened its/his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven. 7 It was granted to it/him to make war with the saints and to overcome them.

These acts are the same as that of the little horn of Daniel 7: they are the same person.

Dan. 7:25 He [the Little Horn] shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.

This person is a spokesman for the Beast, not the Beast itself; just as the Little Horn is not the Beast itself, only one of its horns (that is, human leaders empowered by it). Only this Mouth meets his end after the 1260 days, not the Beast for whom he had been the spokesman.

This same principle took place with Aaron being the spokesman/"mouth" of Moses:

Ex. 4:15 “Now you [Moses] shall speak to him [Aaron] and put the words in his mouth. And I will be with your mouth and with his mouth, and I will teach you what you shall do. 16 So he shall be your spokesman to the people. And he himself shall be as a mouth for you, and you shall be to him as God."

These 1260 days/3 1/2 times will be the period of the Trumpets, being that of the judgment and redemption of Israel-in-the-wilderness, after the Church has been raptured. This period will end with the establishment of Christ's Kingdom rule upon earth among the faithful of Israel at the 7th Trumpet.

However, the nations who still follow after the Beast will not be judged and overthrown until the Armageddon battle at the end of the 7th Bowl. Jesus will have received titular authority over the earth at the 7th Trumpet, but that titular authority will still be denied by those who remain in rebellion against God and his Christ.

 

 

 

 

[Ezra]

On 7/8/2016 at 10:20 PM, Marcus O'Reillius said:

?  That's the reality of the Day of the Lord's Wrath.

For the Great Tribulation we need to look at Mt 24.

They are one and the same.

[Marcus O'Reillius]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

They are one and the same.

I'm sorry, that doesn't make sense to me.

The Great Tribulation follows the midpoint abomination, as Mt 24:21 follows Mt 24:15 and Rev 13:15-16 follows Rev 13:14.

Its human purpose is to elicit the worship of evil and punish those who won't.  Its divine purpose is to act as a test to weed out the foolish.  The number of the Elect who succumb to being martyred by it has been set by the Father.

The Day of the Lord follows the Great Tribulation as Mt 24:31 follows Mt 24:22 and Rev 14:14-16 follow Rev 13:15-16.

Its purpose is two-fold: to rescue the remaining Elect and tramp out the Lord's Wrath upon Israel and the sin in that land, city, and its Temple.

Edited July 10, 2016 by Marcus O'Reillius

[Revelation Man]

On 7/7/2016 at 9:33 PM, Ezra said:

This period is not about nations rising and growing.  The Antichrist will take control of existing nations and then establish his reign for 3 1/2 years.

Hello brother. We must remember this Anti-Christ comes to power via peace. I think this 3 1/2 year period starts after he reneges on his agreements. Read Daniel chapter 12:1, Michael stands up, then there is trouble like never before or since, ( just as Matthew 24 also says),  Satan is cast out of heaven (just like Rev. 12) and he comes to earth having but a short time. This is when the 8th King (Satan, who was of the Seven) possesses the Anti-Christ, and he is given power over the Saints for 42 months. Remember, Jesus told Israel to flee when they see the Abomination of desolation, which happens at the half-way or 3 1/2 year point. So the last 3 1/2 years or 42 months is when the wrath of God begins, and the Anti-Christ is the very first judgment/Seal.

The scripture about God shortening the time or no flesh would be saved, actually, I am pretty sure, refers to God's decision to step in after the seventh year is over (sure, it is predetermined, but still truth) and send Jesus to destroy the Anti-Christ, False Prophet, all his minions/Armies and to bind Satan for 1000 years. I think this is God saying, I stepped in and stopped the chaos, or no flesh would have been saved, that is just a fact. But it is still seven years. 

[Retrobyter]

Shalom, all.

Time for all to go back to the drawing board. First, one must understand that there is a difference, however subtle, between the 1/2 of a Seven,  the 42 months, the time, times and half a time, and the 1260 days. It's absolutely RIDICULOUS to assume that they are all the same time period. That's why there are FOUR different ways of saying it!

Second, one must understand that the Times of the Gentiles, the Time of Jacob's Trouble, and the Great Tribulation are practically the same time period; it does NOT consist of 7 years or 3.5 years, and it is currently occurring and has been doing so since the first century.

Third, one must understand that not everything said that the so-called "Antichrist" will perform is indeed performed by this "Antichrist," or "beast," or the "man of sin."

I know that you won't listen to me ... again, but it really is important that you do. Christians give this so-called "Antichrist" FAR too much credit! If you would just learn to take away the references to this "Antichrist" figure in Daniel 9:27, for instance, you will have FAR less to leave up to speculation. For instance, where else in one's eschatology does it say that he makes this 7-year pact with Israel and breaks it at the midpoint? Without that distraction, one would have a much simpler view of this "beast" character. Sometimes, we complicate matters much more than we need to or ought to.