Begotten not in four gospels

[Deborah_]

I guess the reason you won't find the word 'begotten' in modern translations (such as the NRSV) is that it is no longer in everyday use. We have other ways of saying the same thing.

[BlueMinou]

I'm going to drop this verse in case they haven't already:

 

Acts 13:33: this he has fulfilled to us their children by raising Jesus; as also it is written in the second psalm, 'Thou art my Son, today I have begotten thee.'

 

 

Edited July 27, 2016 by BlueMinou

[Ezra]

On 7/20/2016 at 1:02 AM, Deborah_ said:

I guess the reason you won't find the word 'begotten' in modern translations (such as the NRSV) is that it is no longer in everyday use. We have other ways of saying the same thing.

The only problem with that is that *only begotten* is the only legitimate way of translating monogenes, unless it is *uniquely begotten*. But the modern versions misrepresent this with *only Son*.  They do not say *uniquely begotten*. 

The begetting within the Godhead has no relationship to human begetting, but indicated an eternal and loving Father-Son relationship.

[Deborah_]

1 hour ago, Ezra said:

The only problem with that is that *only begotten* is the only legitimate way of translating monogenes, unless it is *uniquely begotten*. But the modern versions misrepresent this with *only Son*.  They do not say *uniquely begotten*. 

The begetting within the Godhead has no relationship to human begetting, but indicated an eternal and loving Father-Son relationship.

Fine, but how would you explain the word 'begotten' to someone who doesn't understand what it means?  

[Omegaman 3.0]

13 minutes ago, Deborah_ said:

begotten

It is only wiki, so consider the source, but this might be  more info that some want to wade through:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monogenēs

[Ezra]

35 minutes ago, Deborah_ said:

Fine, but how would you explain the word 'begotten' to someone who doesn't understand what it means?  

1. The Godhead cannot be *understood* with human logic and reasoning. Therefore this is a matter of faith in God.

2. Divine revelation can be either accepted or rejected. One can either believe God or disbelieve Him.

3. It is impossible to explain a Father-Son relationship which does not involve a mother.

4. Jesus is the Word of God and also Truth. Therefore we must accept what the Bible says as true, regardless of how logical or illogical it sounds.

[Deborah_]

49 minutes ago, Deborah_ said:

Fine, but how would you explain the word 'begotten' to someone who doesn't understand what it means?  

My dictionary gives two definitions of 'beget' : to cause, or to be the father of. 

Would we say that the Son was in some way  'caused'? I don't think so. And the word 'son' implies a parent, so to add the word 'begotten' is a bit of a tautology. The force of the word monogenes must therefore be on 'only' (as when applied to Isaac).

12 minutes ago, Ezra said:

1. The Godhead cannot be *understood* with human logic and reasoning. Therefore this is a matter of faith in God.

2. Divine revelation can be either accepted or rejected. One can either believe God or disbelieve Him.

3. It is impossible to explain a Father-Son relationship which does not involve a mother.

4. Jesus is the Word of God and also Truth. Therefore we must accept what the Bible says as true, regardless of how logical or illogical it sounds.

This does nothing to explain the meaning of 'begotten'. We may not be able to understand the nature of God, but that is no excuse for making His word impenetrable. The first readers of the New Testament knew exactly what 'monogenes' meant, so why does it have to be a mystery for us?

[Ezra]

1 hour ago, Deborah_ said:

My dictionary gives two definitions of 'beget' : to cause, or to be the father of. 

Dictionaries are worthless when trying to penetrate spiritual verities. As I said, Christians are not obligated to *explain* Divine mysteries. 

We are called upon to simply proclaim the Gospel (which includes the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of God -- being God Himself -- who became Man for our redemption). Paul told the Athenians that He was the *Unknown God* which they acknowledged, since mankind cannot really comprehend the Godhead.

 

[Deborah_]

Dear Ezra, you are completely missing my point. We are not trying to 'explain a divine mystery' here, we are simply trying to communicate using the words of the modern English language - just as the apostles preached and wrote in everyday Greek.

What is the point of proclaiming the gospel in words that people do not understand? Why use Christian 'jargon'? If someone is reading the Bible and comes across a word that they don't know, why should they not look it up in a dictionary? And if you are using a word with a different meaning from the everyday dictionary definition, then surely you should be able to explain what the difference is.

[kwikphilly]

Blessings Deborah

     I think the easiest way to explain to someone what "begotten" means,if speaking about what it means in Gods Word it to show the comparisons as we did the very first replies here,the definitions translated from the original languages,not a dictionary,,,,,,,,,the translation is "One of a Kind" not merely only Son,,,,,this is why I compared it to the ONLY other time this transliteration is used in the entire Bible & that is to describe Isaac,Abrahams "chosen son",,,,,,,so it is quite different than just saying I (Kwik) had one begotten......does that help?                                 To God be the Glory                                               With love-in Christ,Kwik