Pre-tribbers, what do you have

[Sister]

5 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

THERE IS NO SEX IN HEAVEN, I DO NOT HAVE A CLUE WHAT YOU ARE SPEAKING ABOUT

Revelation Man

I never said there was sex in heaven. 

You said to Salty;

 

Quote

 

7 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

You don't really think Jesus marries a city do you ?

 

Well the Lamb has a bride and the most popular teaching I hear is that his bride are the saints....men and women.

I am saying that is wrong.

We are not the bride.

Christ showed John who the bride was;

  Revelation 21:9   And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

  Revelation 21:10   And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

That great city, holy Jerusalem is the bride.  This is the Lamb's wife.  Christ just showed us,...all we have to do now is understand.

 

Revelation 21:11   Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;

The saint's righteousness are what the bride is wearing.  These are her adornments. 

The city looks spectacular to God, adorned like a bride.  Covered in righteousness, ...which are the clean white robes the saints are wearing. Their robes. God has described to us how beautiful righteousness looks....  like a beautiful wedding, a union, ...a coming together, and a big celebration.  The day is here.  This is God's glory, not mans, and all because of the Lamb of God who gave that light (truth).

Hopefully you can understand a little better now, the way I have explained it?

The bride is not the saints, but the city is.  The city of truth.

Revelation 22:17   And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

 

 

[Revelation Man]

14 hours ago, Sister said:

Revelation Man

I never said there was sex in heaven. 

You said to Salty;

You said and I paste........Quote......Would you prefer Jesus marries men ? Thee will be no male or female in Heaven, there will be no marriage of giving in Marriage, we will not be Humans with Human desires.

 

14 hours ago, Sister said:

Well the Lamb has a bride and the most popular teaching I hear is that his bride are the saints....men and women.

I am saying that is wrong.

We are not the bride.

Christ showed John who the bride was;

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.  {{ So the SAINTS are shown to be the Bride right here. This is not in doubt !}}

 

14 hours ago, Sister said:

  Revelation 21:9   And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb's wife.

  Revelation 21:10   And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,

That great city, holy Jerusalem is the bride.  This is the Lamb's wife.  Christ just showed us,...all we have to do now is understand.

It is called reading comprehension. Go read the whole chapter........Do not read things out of context. The Bride is in New Jerusalem, coming down, look at the Gates.....and the Twelve Foundations. Rev. 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.  

After the 1000 year reign and Gog and Magog/Satan is loosed, New Jerusalem comes down, and the Bride of Christ is already living there......I go to prepare a place for you, and if I go I will come again............Only those beheaded stay on earth and serve with Jesus, the rest of us, the ones who were raptured, will be in New Jerusalem as soon as we are Raptured. 

 

We are the Bride.

[Diaste]

9 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We can't know how many will turn to Christ after the Rapture, it might be many or just a few, that is an unknown, what is known is that after the Rapture if you turn unto God, then you must endure because you did not take care of business when you had a chance. 

There is no scripture to back such a claim that if some become believers during the 70th week they have to endure the wrath of God. The wrath of God is punishment on those that do not believe, the rebels, the ones who did not repent of their false worship. There is only one gathering of the elect, believers, in all of scripture stated explicitly: 

Matt 24 

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.  This is the only gathering; after Jesus returns, and when the whole earth sees Him coming in power and glory. This occurs after 'great tribulation'; 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days.." and either at the same time as the earth sees the Sign of Jesus coming and His visible return or moments after and immediately before the wrath of God begins.

The whole last 7 Years is the 70th Week of Daniel. The Bride always stays in the Chamber for 7 Days, so the two fit like a glove. The 70th Week is designed to get Israel to turn back unto God, and to teach her to trust in God again. And to punish the ungodly and ultimately destroy the wicked. 

I think you are mixing Jewish tradition and scriptural truth. The above premise has no bearing on God's plan. 

It is not just about the Tribulation, it is a 7 Year Period where the Time of the Gentiles is OVER and once again Israel is called upon to be Gods chosen people for a time such as this, to preach the Gospel to the world, the Two=Witnesses will preform miracles etc. etc. The Gentile church is in Heaven. The Evil Gentiles are about to get destroyed.

There is no such thing as a Gentile church. This kind of thought is divisive. Scripture states there is no Jew or Gentile anymore but all are one in Jesus. Gentiles are actually unbelievers in the OT. In order to be considered as a son of God, a Gentile had to convert to Judaism and so was no longer a Gentile, but a member of the House of Israel. So a Gentile church would be a church of unbelievers and they ain't going to heaven. I can only conclude you consider yourself to be an unbeliever. Replacement Theology? Seriously? Hasn't that been proven to be untenable time and again? The times of the Gentiles is synonymous with the governments of the earth and all those who have not been grafted into the natural branch.  Since every one that is in Christ has been added to the rolls of the chosen people of God, the Jews.

Romans 10:12

For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

1 Corinthians 1:24

But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

1 Corinthians 12:13

For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Colossians 3:11

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Romans 11 

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew.

Romans 11

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

Romans 11

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

 

Why would the Tribulation be for believers ? Makes absolutely no sense, WE ALREADY BELIEVE !! 

Sure you do. But it ain't about belief, it's about purity. Consider the following from Revelation:

2 Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

3 And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.

4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;

14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

15 So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes, which thing I hate.

16 Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

You get the idea. The church was not pure in the late 1st century and it's far worse now. The church is in no shape to be taken directly to the throne of God at this point. purification is necessary.

18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;

19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

You get the idea. The church was not pure in the late 1st century and it's far worse now. The church is in no shape to be taken directly to the throne of God at this point. purification is necessary.

 The following is the state of the Christian Church today:14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

 As you can see the Lord is going to purify the church. The purification is the fire of the beast and great tribulation. Of course God will make provision for the faithful while in the tribulation of those days, but in all of the letters to the churches no where is it stated, implied or intimated that the whole of the church is taken out before the days of distress. The opposite is true. If some of the church is going to be tried the whole church will be in the trial. That's your position, yes? The entire church is taken away beforehand? Then why does Jesus say the church is going to endure all these things from Rev 2-4?

 

 

[Diaste]

10 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We can't know how many will turn to Christ after the Rapture, it might be many or just a few, that is an unknown, what is known is that after the Rapture if you turn unto God, then you must endure because you did not take care of business when you had a chance. 

The whole last 7 Years is the 70th Week of Daniel. The Bride always stays in the Chamber for 7 Days, so the two fit like a glove. The 70th Week is designed to get Israel to turn back unto God, and to teach her to trust in God again. And to punish the ungodly and ultimately destroy the wicked. 

It is not just about the Tribulation, it is a 7 Year Period where the Time of the Gentiles is OVER and once again Israel is called upon to be Gods chosen people for a time such as this, to preach the Gospel to the world, the Two=Witnesses will preform miracles etc. etc. The Gentile church is in Heaven. The Evil Gentiles are about to get destroyed.

Why would the Tribulation be for believers ? Makes absolutely no sense, WE ALREADY BELIEVE !! 

So sad.

[Last Daze]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

We can't know how many will turn to Christ after the Rapture, it might be many or just a few, that is an unknown, what is known is that after the Rapture if you turn unto God, then you must endure because you did not take care of business when you had a chance. 

No, its not just a few.

• After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.  Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?”  I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."  Revelation 7:9,13-14

Now how does this great multitude, who obviously did not receive the love of the truth since they missed the rapture, shrug off the deception of those days and the strong delusion and attain a martyr's faith in such a relatively short period of time?  The whole notion of a "great revival" has zero scriptural support, in fact the opposite is true.

• Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.  At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.  Matthew 24:9-10

This is not talking about Jews as some presume.  It happens because of the name of Jesus.  When the "worship or die" ultimatum comes down, many will stumble as they seek to save their lives.  So, the number to start with is actually much higher than "a great multitude beyond number."  The great multitude represents those who were willing to give their lives for Christ's sake.  The rest took offense at His name, stumbled, and fell away.

[Last Daze]

14 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

WE are the Bride !!

That depends on how you define the domain of "WE".

[Sister]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

Revelation 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.  {{ So the SAINTS are shown to be the Bride right here. This is not in doubt !}}

 

Hi Revelation Man.

Please read it again.

His wife (The City of God) in heaven has made herself ready (The City of God is ready to come down).

The City of God is arrayed in fine linen, clean and white (righteousness)

The fine linen is the righteousness of the saints.

So the City  is decked with the righteousness of the saints, showing that that the City is the bride, and her adornments are the white robes the saints are wearing.

Do you see the difference?

 

Look here also;

John 3:29   He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

The saints are the "friends" of the bridegroom.  They are the "invited guests", not the bride.

 

[Revelation Man]

On 10/27/2016 at 6:40 AM, Diaste said:

There is no scripture to back such a claim that if some become believers during the 70th week they have to endure the wrath of God. The wrath of God is punishment on those that do not believe, the rebels, the ones who did not repent of their false worship. There is only one gathering of the elect, believers, in all of scripture stated explicitly: 

There are plenty of scriptures,  but only God can reveal them to us, and He can't do that as long as "Our Ideas" are front and center. I said they have to endure, the Anti-Christ will behead most all of them, that is just a fact, God protects Israel, and the Church is in Heaven. There are consequences for not making the wedding of the Lamb, THE DOOR IS CLOSED. 

On 10/27/2016 at 6:40 AM, Diaste said:

Matt 24 

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.  This is the only gathering; after Jesus returns, and when the whole earth sees Him coming in power and glory. This occurs after 'great tribulation'; 29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days.." and either at the same time as the earth sees the Sign of Jesus coming and His visible return or moments after and immediately before the wrath of God begins.

THE SAME OLD TIRED SCRIPTURES, MUST WE ? If someone explained to you 10,000 times you would repost this same nonsense 2 days latter. THE CHURCH COMES BACK WITH JESUS IN REVELATION 19 !! IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION !! AND THE ANGEL GATHERS THE ELECT FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER !!

You just do not seem to be able to grasp that the Rapture and Second Coming are different events, thus you guys post this as if it actually means something, IT MEANS NOTHING !!

What you are supposed to do is overcome an argument, not keep repeating an argument that has been defeated.

On 10/27/2016 at 6:40 AM, Diaste said:

I think you are mixing Jewish tradition and scriptural truth. The above premise has no bearing on God's plan. 

 

I don't think you understand Gods clues he is giving you, in pain sight.

On 10/27/2016 at 6:40 AM, Diaste said:

Sure you do. But it ain't about belief, it's about purity. Consider the following from Revelation:

 

HORSECRAPOLA, Jesus is our Righteousness...........NOT BY WORKS..........Come on !!!!

 

[Sister]

12 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

It is called reading comprehension. Go read the whole chapter........Do not read things out of context. The Bride is in New Jerusalem, coming down, look at the Gates.....and the Twelve Foundations. Rev. 21:12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates. 14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.  

 

Yes, it is all about reading comprehension.  These words we are reading have the spirit in Christ in them.  This is what it means to eat Christ's flesh, to read and hear what the Word of God is saying, for Christ's spirit is in those words. When we eat we have to wash it down with a drink.  Drink Christ's blood.  Understand now what you have read.

The kingdom of God is not physical.  Every detail described there is symbolic.  You will not see a building coming down, but our Lord with the Truth, is what the earth will be ruled by.  The heavenly kingdom is coming down, it's laws and will be established on the earth. The saints are there with Christ and will rule with him.  He will establish it in Jerusalem.  The gentiles who survived armageddon, or to be more precise their future descendants can only come into the kingdom now through Israel.  Israel are given mercy and will be taught. They will be the light of the gentiles.  That light they hold is the truth.  They are still flesh, but given mercy.  Their war torn country will be restored physically by them.  They will plant vineyards, build their own houses.  This area is now a safe haven because the truth is there.  These are the gates one has to enter during the millennium, for now Israel is a real part of the building.  The foundations of the 12 apostles is what this city is based on, the very foundations of Christ.  The teachings we received of them, this is what Israel will be taught during the millennium.

 

 

[Revelation Man]

On 10/27/2016 at 6:44 AM, Diaste said:

So sad.

Correct. You can not hear the Holy Spirits truth for some reason. That is bad.

22 hours ago, Last Daze said:

No, its not just a few.

• After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude which no one could count, from every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, clothed in white robes, and palm branches were in their hands.  Then one of the elders answered, saying to me, “These who are clothed in the white robes, who are they, and where have they come from?”  I said to him, “My lord, you know.” And he said to me, “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."  Revelation 7:9,13-14

This is what I am speaking of why I say that a bad understanding of scripture aka the Rapture throws everything off. You are referencing something that happens way before the Second Coming, all because you do not understand when the Rapture is. These are the Raptured Saints in Heaven, the Saints on earth are still on earth, Jesus tells them in the 5th Seal, you must wait until your brothers are killed also.........Rev. 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.... Again, I love the way you guys just claim every word has to be the at the exact same time, that is just not the case, the Great tribulation and Jacobs Trouble are different. The World we live in is our Great Tribulation or our troubles we must overcome to make Heaven, we are tempted at every turn. We came out of the great tribulation when we die and make it unto Heaven. This is not the same as Jacob's Trouble, which Jesus says will be like unto troubled times that have never been seen before. All of the temptations of men are the Great Tribulation which we go through. Not Jacobs Trouble or a time of trouble like never before. Without any reason or without any reference, you guys want to makes the Great Tribulation as only being 7 Years....Now prove that is a fact, because it is not. !!

 

22 hours ago, Last Daze said:

Now how does this great multitude, who obviously did not receive the love of the truth since they missed the rapture, shrug off the deception of those days and the strong delusion and attain a martyr's faith in such a relatively short period of time?  The whole notion of a "great revival" has zero scriptural support, in fact the opposite is true.

•  

Like I said, you have everything backwards, these are the Saints that were Raptured.

 

22 hours ago, Last Daze said:

• Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.  At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another.  Matthew 24:9-10

 

HANGING CURVE........You just proved my point, you even believe that Matthew 24 before verse 14 is about the Tribulation, when it can not be. Matthew 24:14 says that the Gospel must be preached unto all the world, then the end will come, and Jesus says the time of the Gentiles will be fulfilled when this happens. But just because tribulation is used it has to be the end times...You do understand tribulation only means trouble right ? So any time trouble is mentioned it HAS TO BE THE END ? Get out !! This was about the Disciples being killed !!

 

22 hours ago, Last Daze said:

This is not talking about Jews as some presume.  It happens because of the name of Jesus.  When the "worship or die" ultimatum comes down, many will stumble as they seek to save their lives.  So, the number to start with is actually much higher than "a great multitude beyond number."  The great multitude represents those who were willing to give their lives for Christ's sake.  The rest took offense at His name, stumbled, and fell away.

I have written a whole thesis on Matthew 24 and can show what every verse/sentence means. Until you get to Matthew 24:14 everything else is PRE- Jacobs Troubles. 

 

20 hours ago, Last Daze said:

That depends on how you define the domain of "WE".

No it doesn't, we everyone knows is the Bride of Christ, or those Saints who believe in Jesus Christ, we is not a Building or a city.