Pauls thorn in the flesh

[Guest shiloh357]

3 hours ago, Denadii said:

Wow!  No wonder the general Christian populace is so powerless.

We are not powerless at all.  There are many wonderful believers who are empowered by God to endure sickness and disease to His glory.  God gives them the grace continue serving Him and pointing to the Lord Jesus Christ even while in the midst of suffering.  It when we can shine in the midst of suffering that the power of God is seen.   He is powerful in the middle of our weakness. 

By your lousy standard, Paul was powerless.  He was beaten, stoned, flogged impoverished, shipwrecked, imprisoned.   He endured and suffered more than any other believer for the sake of the Gospel.   Yet Paul endured.  The power of God was seen through the weakness of Paul. 

3 hours ago, Denadii said:

Its plainly revealed that the messenger of Satan is not from God.  It was a messenger FROM Satan.  Satan sent it.   Paul asked God two? Three times?   And God said that His grace was sufficient to do the job.   Paul finally caught on.  And the demon was sent packing.  Do you really think God allowed it?  

James 1:13-14 (CJB)

¹³ No one being tempted should say, “I am being tempted by God.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, and God himself tempts no one. ¹⁴ Rather, each person is being tempted whenever he is being dragged off and enticed by the bait of his own desire

If God allowed the demon, or sent it to Paul, He would certainly be inconsistent.   If it's Gods will that we be tried (tempted) by demons, why did he deliver us from Satan's power?   Come on....What does the Word say?    I don't want to hear churchy teaching, or doctrines of demons...What does the Word say?

It always comes down to that....WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY?

There is a difference between being tempted and God simply allowing Paul to undergo tribulation at the hands of the enemies.    You fail to make that distinction.    We don't want to hear your ungodly, charismatic, false teaching that is not based on the truth of Scripture.

The Bible does not say that Paul was delivered from the thorn.   Jesus said that His grace was sufficient for Paul because His power is made perfect in Paul's weakness.   It was the fact that Paul had a debilitating thorn but was able to endure up under it that showed God's power.

When world sees us undergo suffering that they feel should shut us down, make us despondent and maybe even cause us to abandon our faith, and when they see our faith grow and they see that those circumstances do not steal our joy or diminish or hope, His power is truly being made perfect in our weakness.  And it is that enduring faith, hope and joy that the world is looking for.  

 

2 hours ago, Denadii said:

God does not use Satan...He uses His Word.  If Satan attacks you God can use it for your best. 

Romans 8:28-29 (CJB)

²⁸ Furthermore, we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called in accordance with his purpose; ²⁹ because those whom he knew in advance, he also determined in advance would be conformed to the pattern of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers;

Can you give me a scripture where God uses Satan?

God used Satan to test Job (Job 1:6-12).   God sent an evil spirit to King Saul (I Sam. 16:14, 23; 18:10; 19:9)

2 hours ago, Denadii said:

When God says His empowering Presence is sufficient, He means it.  So look at it this way.....Can evil stand int the presence of God?  No.  Yet Paul was filled with Gods Grace(His empowering presence)  How was the demon able to stay?

You are misquoting Scripture.   Jesus didn't say that His presence was sufficient.  He said his grace was sufficient.  Those are not interchangable terms and you are intentionally misrepresenting and twisting Scripture.  

 

1 hour ago, Denadii said:

You talk as though 'Christ' is Jesus' last name.  Of course without 'Christ' you are powerless...But He gave you that anointing.

That is a complete misuse of the word "anointing."

[Annette]

On 9/3/2016 at 12:21 AM, Yowm said:

One of my favorite passages of Scripture and thanks for the reminder, I needed at this moment...

2 Corinthians 12:9-10 KJVS
[9] And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. [10] Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

 

There have been many times that I have had to remind myself that God is with me in the situation, and where my grace has run out, His is sufficient.

Thank you for sharing this Town.

Blessings

[Annette]

On 9/2/2016 at 11:46 PM, WarriorforHim said:

No one likes to live in pain. Paul sought the Lord three times to remove this source of pain from him (2 Cor. 12:8). He probably had many good reasons why he should be pain free.. he could have a more effective ministry; he could reach more people with the gospel; he could glorify God even more.. But the Lord was more concerned with building Paul’s character...

 

Hi Warrior,

Thanks for sharing this. I loved the reminder that God is more interested in our character than our comfort.

I have grown so much more during the hard times, than when things were easy. 

Blessings

[frienduff thaylorde]

God did not choose paul for his character.  When HE drew paul, puals character was persecuting Christains.

GOD gave paul NEW CHARACTER.   not a one of us were called out due to OUR character.  Mine was far worst than most.

NO.  God just drew me cause he Loved me and He uses us for HIS OWN GLORY.     be blessed.

Pauls thorn was due to the abundance of revelations He had been given.   that can puff a man up .  GOD TOOK care of that

with some humbling so as paul would LEAN on HIM and not on PAUL.   IF we read what paul himself said and don't take what our man glorying in self preachers say.

Many a preach , will teach that God sees something GOOD in us so HE calls us .  WRONG answer preach.    We naught but evil.  And GOD truly is the ONLY GOODNESS

we have  .    Only let us be faithful to the Goodness OF HIS SPIRIT HE puts in us by grace and OBEY the Spirit.    Have a blessed day now. 

[Guest]

On 9/28/2017 at 11:52 AM, shiloh357 said:

Read Deut. 28:15-68

This is a good point

 

[missmuffet]

13 hours ago, Denadii said:

?!?!?!?!   The bible says very plainly what  the thorn was!

No it does not if you are reading the Bible correctly.

[Denadii]

13 hours ago, Davida said:

 It is evident in 2Cor 12:  God allows bad things to happen for HIS own purposes. God allowed this thorn that is what the Bible says to humble Paul so he would not be conceited. FYI, God is going to use Satan in the Trib too.

I'm sorry my friend.  God gave US dominion in the Earth.  We allow bad things to happen...God will work those bad things to our good if we allow it.   Why did God lift Paul up, showing him all sorts of wonderful things, teaching him all sorts of wonderful things, then slam him to the ground?  Really. Did Paul learn nothing all the while?

[Guest shiloh357]

55 minutes ago, Denadii said:

I'm sorry my friend.  God gave US dominion in the Earth. 

Not the kind of dominion that you are suggesting we have.  The Earth is the Lord's the fullness thereof and all that are in it, according to Scripture.  

Thine, O LORD, is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory, and the majesty: for all that is in the heaven and in the earth is thine; thine is the kingdom, O LORD, and thou art exalted as head above all. Both riches and honour come of thee, and thou reignest over all; and in thine hand is power and might; and in thine hand it is to make great, and to give strength unto all.  (1Ch 29:11-12)

A Psalm of David. The earth is the LORD'S, and the fulness thereof; the world, and they that dwell therein.  (Psa 24:1)

God is sovereign over it all and can do as He pleases. He owns the earth and He owns us.   He has a claim over each of our lives and just as the potter  is sovereign over the clay and determines what happens to the clay, so the Lord is sovereign over us to use us as He pleases.

Quote

We allow bad things to happen...God will work those bad things to our good if we allow it. 

God is sovereign and is also our Eternal Judge.   His judgement has caused a lot of bad things to happen in the earth.   God allows bad things to happen and He causes bad things to happen, but always in accordance with His purposes.

Quote

  Why did God lift Paul up, showing him all sorts of wonderful things, teaching him all sorts of wonderful things, then slam him to the ground?  Really. Did Paul learn nothing all the while?

God gave Him the thorn, according to Paul, to keep him from becoming conceited.  That's what the text says.   God knew what Paul was going to face in his ministry.   Paul was going to be stoned, beaten, flogged, starved, and a whole host of other problems and as a mercy to Paul, he was shown what awaited him in glory at the end of the road.   But God also made sure that Paul would not become (as some do) exalt himself over the visions he had received.

[Steve_S]

I removed a couple of attacks from this thread. Anything further will likely result in a thread ban and warning point.

[Omegaman 3.0]

30 minutes ago, Steve_S said:

I removed a couple of attacks from this thread. Anything further will likely result in a thread ban and warning point.

Doesn't it seem like, there is a passage of scripture devoted to this "thorn in the flesh"?

Doesn't it seem then, that people responding in the thread would or should end up constructing a multi-author commentary on that passage?

Has any one of us ever read a Bible commentary, that says:

"You are wrong" or "you need to study more". The basic principle, once again, is that the thread is about it's topic, not about people who respond in the thread!

Before we hit the 'enter' key, maybe we can ponder that a moment first.