The Pagan Origins Myth About Christmas

[Guest shiloh357]

3 hours ago, Giller said:

Wow all this to defend something that is not in the bible (Christmas is not in the bible).

Not defending what isn't in the Bible, at this point.  Rather defending fellow believers from unreasonable, arrogant critics who look down their self-righteous snoots at those celebrate the holiday and  from the implied accusation that Christians are being "pagan" and are displeasing to God for celebrating Christmas.  

[Churchmouse]

5 hours ago, Giller said:

Wow all this to defend something that is not in the bible (Christmas is not in the bible).

I think It's more the tradition of good feelings that is being defended here.

[Guest shiloh357]

1 hour ago, Churchmouse said:

I think It's more the tradition of good feelings that is being defended here.

No, it's fellow believers that are being defended.

[LadyKay]

9 hours ago, Giller said:

I am done.

LOL! Pull up a chair I'll pop some  corn for the show! 

[GoldenEagle]

20 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

I could see it as an issue of conscience if there was any truth to the "Christmas is pagan" claims.  The problem is that there is no truth to them.   It's all contrived.   So it is really not the same as choosing between secular vs. religious/Christian music.   It is a difference between falling for a lot of history revisionism and false claims vs. the Truth. 

From what I can tell there is some merit to the idea of Christmas having roots other than Christianity. To deny this is to deny history. Yet it doesn't matter if there is any truth to the idea that "Christmas is pagan" or has pagan roots. Some people take issue with certain holidays. That is their choice and their conscience to follow.

Just as it is my choice and my conscience permits me to celebrate Christmas with loved ones.

Who are we to try to be the Holy Spirit in someone's life?

God bless,
GE

[Guest shiloh357]

29 minutes ago, GoldenEagle said:

From what I can tell there is some merit to the idea of Christmas having roots other than Christianity. To deny this is to deny history. Yet it doesn't matter if there is any truth to the idea that "Christmas is pagan" or has pagan roots. Some people take issue with certain holidays. That is their choice and their conscience to follow.

Who are we to try to be the Holy Spirit in someone's life?

God bless,
GE

Christmas has its roots in the birth of Jesus.  That is what it is about.   The claims that Christmas traditions originated in paganism has no validity.  There is no valid historical or archeological value to those arguments.  What has happened is that pagan traditions have, over the centuries infiltrated Christmas celebrations.  The Christmas tree did not come from ancient Babylon, Rome, Egypt or Assyria despite what people claim.  History doesn't back that up.  Celebrating Jesus' birth on December 25th has no pagan roots to it either.  There is no real history or evidence to back that claim up.  The pagans, especially the neo-pagans have a entire calendar of pagan holidays all year 'round and there is no day or season that we could not celebrate the birth of Jesus or any other holiday that doesn't have a pagan tradition or holiday season attached to it.

History has been revised to claim that the celebration of the birth of Jesus is really based on the life of Horus or Zeus or some other pagan deity and that name of Jesus is really derived from the name of Zeus (Iesous is said to be Ie-zeus). 

The "history" you refer to is junk, or pop history.  It is worthless history and it passed around from one Christian group to another and no one really thinks critically about it.  They just buy it up and disseminate it to their congregations and it has the effect of really causing conflicts in churches and in families as self-righteous purists start accusing fellow believers of being "pagan" in their celebration of Jesus' birth. 

The truth is that Christmas wasn't even celebrated until the  15th or 16th century in Europe. The Christmas tree wasn't used until the Reformation or just before the Reformation.  And the choice of December 25th had nothing to do with Moloch or Baal or whatever. While an inaccurate date, it was nonetheless chosen out of sincere desire to honor the Lord, not a pagan god.

And you are wrong about something else, as well.  It DOES matter if there is any truth to the claims of whether or not Christmas is pagan or not.   It matters a great deal.   The people who push the alleged paganism of Christmas are unbelievers.  There are Atheist websites that push this notion.  There are neo-pagan websites that push this notion.    But what is really, really important is that this claim that Christmas is pagan is part of a larger narrative about the life of Jesus that states that the life of Jesus from birth to resurrection to ascension is all a rehash of the ancient pagan sun god traditions surrounding the Mithras cult. 

So when Christians affirm the alleged "paganism" of Christmas, they are re-enforcing the unbelief of many non-Christians who use the alleged paganism of Christmas, Easter as justification for rejecting Jesus.  There are all kinds of pseudo-Christian groups publishing literature that says that the church is a pagan institution, that we our two main holidays, Christmas and Easter are rooted in Babylonian pagan traditions that have been passed down through Assyrian, Roman, Greek paganism and Christianity is really just a new manifestation of those pagan traditions. 

That's what the whole "Christmas is pagan" is really all about.  It is an attempt by unbelievers to keep people away from Jesus and naive, ignorant Christians who don't have a clue about any of this and who know just enough to be dangerous are disseminating these lies in the Church and are either leading other believers astray into false doctrine or they are judging those of us who are not sheep and don't buy into the lies, as "pagan."

It's not a matter of being the Holy Spirit for someone else.  This is not about person convictions about biblical traditions or secondary doctrines.   This about fellow believers living out a lie and sucking others into it.   And we need to bring back some sanity to this mess.     Those who are spreading these lies are enabling unbelievers to remain comfortable in their sin and frankly, by doing that, they are a liability to the Kingdom of God, and to the Gospel.

[Guest shiloh357]

Addendum to the above post:  I think before people go around slamming Christmas as wicked and pagan, they need to stop give some serious consideration to what they are saying about fellow Christians who celebrate this holiday.  The implication is that fellow Christians are practicing wickedness and paganism.     It think this goes waaaaay beyond simply having an issue of conscience about Christmas.

An issue of conscience would be something like, "I am not giving gifts this Christmas to protest the abject materialism that embodies this celebration."  But to attach "wickedness" or paganism to such things and pretty paint them as sinful crosses the line from an issue of conscience into an implied judgment on others for celebrating. 

[LadyKay]

I'm not taking any side here. I just want to say that everything has changed since I was a kid.  Growing up I never heard of anyone making Christmas out to be a pagan holiday. We never had any such issues as that. We went to church and would put on a Christmas program for all our parents to come and see. Twice I got to play Mary.  Everyone I knew did Christmas.  Everyone had a tree and gave out gifts. No one ever judge anyone to be pagan for doing so.  In fact We most likely would have laughed at you for doing so..And people would think there was something wrong with you for not wanting to celebrate Christmas. That is how I grew up. Now it seems everything is an issue. Nothing is just fun anymore. Someone has to make it into an issue. 

That's all I have to say. Than you and Merry Christmas! 

Edited December 9, 2016 by LadyKay

[ayin jade]

Merry Christmas

[Willa]

Joh 3:16  For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Christmas is about giving as an expression of love.