Why I am a Post-Millennialist

[Limey_Bob]

13 hours ago, HAZARD said:

There is a difference between the Kingdom of Heaven and the Kingdom of God.

All who profess are in the Kingdom of Heaven in this age (Matt. 13).

The Kingdom of Heaven has the Messiah as its King. It is from Heaven, under heaven and upon Earth during the Millennium.
Then it becomes submerged into the Kingdom of God forever (John 18:28-37; 1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 19:11-20:10). It is limited in its scope (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev.5:10). It is political in its sphere (Isa.9:7; Dan. 7:13-14, 18). It is Jewish and exclusive in its character (Isa. 9:6-7; Luke 1:32-35; 2 Sam. 7:1-29; Ezek. 43:7). The kingdom of Heaven is national in its aspect (Isa. 9:6-7; Luke 1:32-35). It is dispensational in duration (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Isa. 9:6-7). It includes only a portion of time and eternity (Matt. 3:2). It has a beginning (Luke 1:32-35). All who profess are in the Kingdom of Heaven in this age (Matt. 13). The Kingdom of Heaven comes with outward show (Matt. 24:29-31; 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10; Jude 14; Dan. 7:13). "Flesh and blood" does inherit the Kingdom of Heaven, for it is for earthly, natural people (Ps.37:11; Matt. 5:5; Ps.138:4; Isa. 60:3, 10-11; 62:2; Ezek. 43:7; Dan. 7:18, 27; Luke 1:32-35; Rev. 21:23-26). Men are never told to seek the Kingdom of heaven for the kingdom of heaven is future (Dan. 2:44-45; 7:13-14, 18, 27).

In contrast The Kingdom of God has God as King. It is in Heaven and over the Earth during the Millennium.
Then it comes down to Earth to engulf the Kingdom of Heaven forever (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Rev. 21:3; 22:5; Dan. 2:44-45; 7:13-14, 18). It is unlimited in its scope (Ps. 103:19; Col. 1:16; Rev. 4:11; 5:11). It is moral and spiritual in its sphere (Rom. 14:17; John 3:5; 1 Cor. 4:20). It is universal and inclusive in its character (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Ps. 103:19; Col. 1:10-18; Rev. 4:11). It is universal in its aspect (Ps. 109:19; 1 Cor. 15:24-28). It is eternal (1 Cor. 15:24-28; Ps. 90; John 1:1-3). The Kingdom of God includes all time and eternity Ps. 90:2; Pr. 8:22-29; Rev. 11;15). It has no beginning and no end, and one must be born again to be in the Kingdom of God (John 3:5). The Kingdom of God does not come with outward show, for it is mainly spiritual (Luke 17:20-21; Matt. 6:33; Rom. 14:17; 1 Cor. 4:20). The Kingdom of God is not inherited by "flesh and blood," but by glorofoed saints who become heirs of all things (Rom. 8:14-17; 1 Cor. 4:20; 6:9-10; Gal. 5:21; Eph. 5:5; Col. 1:13; 1 Thess. 2:12; 2 Thess. 1:5; Heb. 1:1-2; 12:28; 2 Peter 1:11). Men are told to seek the kingdom of God (Matt. 6:33; Luke 12:31), and the Kingdom of God is now (Matt. 6:33; Jn. 3:1-5; Rom. 14:17).

The Kingdom of God on Earth now is mainly spiritual and in a sense includes only those who are willingly subject to the will of God. It takes in those who are not willingly subject to God in the same sense that any kingdom includes rebels. God's purpose in establishing the Kingdom of Heaven and sending His Son with an expeditionary force from Heaven is to put down rebellion in this earthly part of the universal Kingdom of God. After this is done the Kingdom of heaven is submerged into the Kingdom of God, and God becomes supreme over all as before rebellion started in the universe. As in any kingdom, during the rebellion rebels could not be considered a part of the kingdom or subjects of the king they are rebelling against, until they become reconciled or submissive again. When the Messiah puts down all rebellion and every enemy is destroyed, then everyone in the universe, except the rebels who are confined to EXTERNAL Hell, will be willing subjects of God. God becomes all in all as before rebellion. The Son becomes subject to the Father, but continues to reign with the Father forever and ever (Isa. 9:6, 7: Dan. 7:13, 14; Luke 1:32-35; Rev. 11:15; 1 Cor. 15:24-28).

Both the professed sons and the true sons of God are in the Kingdom of Heaven in this age, and these with the rest of the universe are in the universal Kingdom of God, but God recognizes the true sons of God as being in the Kingdom of God. This is why we must be born again in order to become a willing subject of God and a part of His Kingdom (John 3:1-8; Rom. 8:1-13). One does not have to be born again to be recognized as a part of the Kingdom of Heaven in this age, for it is the sphere of profession (Matt. 13), but one must be born again in order to be a true subject of God and have a part in the Kingdom of Heaven in the next age (Matt. 5:3, 5, 10; 18:3).

The Kingdom of Heaven is the Kingdom that God gives to His Son and the glorified saints. It is the one promised to David which will become universal over all other kingdoms in the Earth. It is called "my kingdom" (Luke 22:30; John 18:36). It was so recognised by the diciples (Matt. 20:21; Luke 23:42). It is the kingdom God has prepared for the righteous since the foundation of the world (Matt. 25:34). It is the one first announced by John the Baptist (Matt. 3:2-3) and by Jesus and the apostles (Matt. 4:17; 10:7) as being "at hand," but it was rejected and is now in abeyance until the return of the King. Then it will be established as a separate kingdom from Heaven for the purpose of re-establishing the Kingdom of God on Earth forever.

Thank you for your interesting and well researched post. However, I'd regard the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of heaven as interchangeable and referring to one and the same thing, namely the (current) rule of Christ over his people, which at the present time is chiefly Christ ruling from heaven (over the deceased saints who are called "souls" - Revelation 20:4) in what is called the intermediate state although it will also include Christ ruling over saints here upon this earth. At Christ's second coming (or at the end of the 1,000 years if you are a futurist), this kingdom then gets handed over to the Father (1st Corinthians 15:24): "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power." I am not accusing anyone of believing this, but if the Father is king over the kingdom of God and Christ is king over the Kingdom of heaven, then you'd have two separate kingdoms with two different subjects, which I who usually lean towards covenant theology would be extremely wary of. God the Father and Christ have one people, one kingdom and all of his people are a part of that one kingdom of God / heaven:  See Galatians 3:26 to 29: "26So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

Edited April 2, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Limey_Bob]

21 hours ago, enoob57 said:

It was answered maybe not your satisfaction... but it was to s/Spirit within me  

 

I did not understand your post, it was vague and confusing and you did not tell me if everyone is saved in exactly the same way in different dispensations (as I together with reformed and moderate dispensationsals - called progressive dispensationalists believe). Or are people saved in different ways in different dispensations as the old Schofield Reference Bible claims (as well as his mentor J. N. Derby). Please sir, do give me a straightforward answer to this simple and honestly asked question.

[enoob57]

52 minutes ago, Limey_Bob said:

 

I did not understand your post, it was vague and confusing and you did not tell me if everyone is saved in exactly the same way in different dispensations (as I together with reformed and moderate dispensationsals - called progressive dispensationalists believe). Or are people saved in different ways in different dispensations as the old Schofield Reference Bible claims (as well as his mentor J. N. Derby). Please sir, do give me a straightforward answer to this simple and honestly asked question.

It was Jesus' sacrifice alone that brought redemption as clearly indicated-  'the blood of animals cannot save' ... however God distinguishes salvation of OT as friends of the Bridegroom and NT as the bride; a certain difference of intimacy is indicated. So the salvation through Christ is different OT than NT by title and intimacy... 

 

[Limey_Bob]

11 minutes ago, enoob57 said:

It was Jesus' sacrifice alone that brought redemption as clearly indicated-  'the blood of animals cannot save' ... however God distinguishes salvation of OT as friends of the Bridegroom and NT as the bride; a certain difference of intimacy is indicated. So the salvation through Christ is different OT than NT by title and intimacy... 

 

Are you saying that people are not saved in exactly the same way in different dispensations? I think that you are saying that people are saved differently in the Old Testament to the New Testament?

Edited April 2, 2017 by Limey_Bob

[Marcus O'Reillius]

2 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Are you saying that people are not saved in exactly the same way in different dispensations? I think that you are saying that people are saved differently in the Old Testament to the New Testament?

No, I think he's saying that the relationship between them and God is different.

In the Old Testament, before Christ's First Advent, there was not an outpouring of the Spirit.  Revelation was one-on-one like through the Prophets.
In the New Testament, we have the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, the Counselor whom Jesus gave us until such time as He Returns, and we can have a personal relationship with God through the Holy Spirit.

Both Old and New Testament believers get one thing though: Eternal Life through their faith that God (Yeshua, Jesus) will save them.
___________________________________________

Now a question for you:

What is faith?

[HAZARD]

11 hours ago, Limey_Bob said:

Thank you for your interesting and well researched post. However, I'd regard the Kingdom of God and Kingdom of heaven as interchangeable and referring to one and the same thing, namely the (current) rule of Christ over his people, which at the present time is chiefly Christ ruling from heaven (over the deceased saints who are called "souls" - Revelation 20:4) in what is called the intermediate state although it will also include Christ ruling over saints here upon this earth. At Christ's second coming (or at the end of the 1,000 years if you are a futurist), this kingdom then gets handed over to the Father (1st Corinthians 15:24): "Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power." I am not accusing anyone of believing this, but if the Father is king over the kingdom of God and Christ is king over the Kingdom of heaven, then you'd have two separate kingdoms with two different subjects, which I who usually lean towards covenant theology would be extremely wary of. God the Father and Christ have one people, one kingdom and all of his people are a part of that one kingdom of God / heaven:  See Galatians 3:26 to 29: "26So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise."

 Galatians 3:26, For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    27, For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
    28, There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
    29, And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

v. 27, Baptized into Christ;

To put on Christ in this passage means to be clothed with Him: to assume His person and character; and to act the part and sustain the character of Christ in daily life (Gal. 5:24; 2 Cor. 5:17-18; Rom. 6:1-14; 8:1-13). To profess Christianity is to take on the life and works of Christ and follow in His steps, and do His works (John 14:12-15; 1 Pet. 2:21; 4:1-2; Rom. 13:14).

v. 28, There is neither Jew nor Greek,

All races, classes, and sexes are one in Christ and equal in rights and privileges regarding gospel benefits. They make one body with Christ the head (1 Cor. 12:13, 28-31; Eph. 1;20-23; 2:19-22; Col. 3:11).

The gulf between Jews and Gentiles, masters and slaves, and male and female have been bridged by Christ and the gospel.

V. 29,  And if ye be Christ's;

All Christians are one in unity, in rights, and privileges as the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one in unity and not in person (john 17:11, 21-22; John 5:7).

"and heirs according to the promise." 

There are seven Equal Blessings for Christians;

1 All are children of God (v. 26).

2. All are baptized into Christ (v. 27).

3. All have put on Christ (. 27).

4. All are equal and one in Christ (v. 28).

5. All belong to Christ (v. 29; 5:24).

6. All are Abraham's spiritual seed (v. 29).

7. All are heirs by promise (v. 29).

 

 

 

 

[angels4u]

I'm curious of who you think is saved and who are not?

 

[HAZARD]

2 hours ago, angels4u said:

I'm curious of who you think is saved and who are not?

 

Are you asking me?

[angels4u]

15 minutes ago, HAZARD said:

Are you asking me?

No Hazard, I was asking Bob, we don't know him that good yet and with all the posting  people do on this topic  , it's good to know when a person stands with the Lord, don't you think?

I know your answer....

 

[HAZARD]

4 minutes ago, angels4u said:

No Hazard, I was asking Bob, we don't know him that good yet and with all the posting  people do on this topic  , it's good to know when a person stands with the Lord, don't you think?

I know your answer....

 

Thanks mate