THE MODESTY DEBATE

[MorningGlory]

5 minutes ago, Teditis said:

I don't think that's a fair analogy for this topic... visualizing an attractive woman who is immodestly dressed doesn't mean that

the viewer finishes undressing her in their mind.

I think as a woman I should dress modestly and I think that men should try to control their thoughts.  It's not a male or female problem; it's a people problem.

[The_Patriot21]

What I don't get about women who dress immodesty, but then say "well your not supposed to look" well, question, if you don't want anyone looking at you why did you bother wearing it in the first place. For example women who wear pants with writing on the posterior...and then whine when people are staring at it...I'm like if you don't want people staring at it don't wear something that draws attention to it. Seems pretty common sense to me.

[Willa]

6 hours ago, Gary Lee said:

All a mute point. There's probably not one here that does not actually know what the problem here is. When I have discussed this problem I have with seeing the opposite sex in revealing attire, with other male believers, solid strong in the faith believers, every one of them admitted they all experience the same problem. Men are attracted visually to the opposite sex. EVEN when they don't want to be. I want to NOT have this problem/temptation. The problem is exacerbated when I see more skin and  cleavage, in the church. I freak out when I see the young girls coming into maturity wearing a mini dress at church that leaves very little to be hidden, knowing the parents are friends of mine, knowing  they love the Lord. I know how to trap varmints where I live in the country. Pests. I put a bait to draw them. Then they get caught. But, when there is no bait, I catch nothing. It's really quiet simple. I'm the varmint. When I see no bait, I'm not attracted. I don't understand when it became acceptable for a woman to expose so much of her self in church. Dr. James Dobson of Focus on the Family told how he dealt with this problem. He took his young daughter to the airport, and they sat down and watched the arriving and departing passengers walking by. He then would tell his daughter which ones were appropriate yet attractive, and which ones were not.  Eventually, his daughter understood appropriate and not appropriate.  People tell me it's my problem. Yes, it is. I would have thought though,  that in church, there would be a difference.

Part of the problem is that men need to look on all humanity as God does.  Saved, or not saved.  A child of God or a person who needs the Lord.  God sees the hidden beauty of the heart.  Seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness.  Treasures in heaven.  Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.  I know it must be easier said than done, and that men are visual. 

It is also appropriate that women counsel women and men counsel men.

Our pastor announced to the congregation that confronting inappropriately dress women at the door was not doing him any favors.  All are welcome at our church and most who are not dressed modestly are new and are not saved.  So a lady who had only come for a few months, who was from a German Baptist background, had apparently been doing this.  Pastor said that appropriate dress in our church would do nothing to call attention to one's self.  That would cover the modestly problem.  But it also covered the German Baptist's lady's attire, which was a long calico dress with long sleeves and a neckline to the throat.  Her head was covered with a small    head covering.

[LadyKay]

9 hours ago, HisFirst said:

Bikinis are just like underwear and a one piece is revealing too - they both fit like a second skin!

Then I vote for skinny dipping!     But anyway. I wear a one piece when I swim and I have serious doubts any man seeing me in it is lusting after me. 

I only wish I join this debate sooner. I think I have lots to say on this one. 

[Guest shiloh357]

27 minutes ago, Willa said:

Part of the problem is that men need to look on all humanity as God does.  Saved, or not saved.  A child of God or a person who needs the Lord.  God sees the hidden beauty of the heart.  Seek the kingdom of God and His righteousness.  Treasures in heaven.  Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.  I know it must be easier said than done, and that men are visual. 

 

Men are hardwired to be attracted to women.   So no amount of walking in the Spirit will get rid of that.  It is not a sin to be attracted to members of the opposite sex.  You're not normal if you're not attracted to someone of the opposite sex.

The biblical principle that seems to be buried under the rug is that we are not to cause each other to stumble, to put even put someone at risk of stumbling.   None of us is immune to temptation and anyone who says they are, is a liar.    We each need to conduct ourselves in Church in a manner such that the last place on earth where anyone would behave in a manner that tempts another person, is at Church.  Church should be the place where you don't expect to see people flaunting their assets.  Church ought to be the place where people dress and talk and conduct themselves in a godly manner and exhibit sterling character (as they should be doing all week long, btw).   If a man sins and lusts after a woman at Church, it should not be because she said, or did something, or dressed in a manner that encouraged  or prompted it.  

If we find that we are in a situation where we are tempted, then our response should be remove ourselves from the environment.   That's why I left a Church to find a better one that enforced godly character in those who were in ministry positions and expected the same from the Congregation.

[HisFirst]

37 minutes ago, LadyKay said:

Then I vote for skinny dipping!     But anyway. I wear a one piece when I swim and I have serious doubts any man seeing me in it is lusting after me. 

I only wish I join this debate sooner. I think I have lots to say on this one. 

Lol!

Hi LK,

What I'm trying to say is that some folk point out how revealing bikinis are but in fact one piece suits also are revealing even though they have more fabric - it still contours the body.

So what's the answer to swimming? I don't know but I choose the Aussie female board shorts and t- shirt or rashy swim shirt but even they all stick to your body like a second skin when you get out of the water. Men look no matter what (sorry guys).

Edited May 1, 2017 by HisFirst

[HisFirst]

7 hours ago, shiloh357 said:

It really isn't a minor issue.  The message could easily be given by a female in the church.    Inappropriate handling does distract from the message.  

If she is married you can go to her husband.  You should not go  to her.    If she is has a father and mother that attend the same church you should go to them.   If none of that applies, then it you should approach another female, preferably a friend of hers.

Good answer!

[HisFirst]

As a ring of gold in a swine's snout So is a beautiful woman who lacks discretion.

Proverbs 11:22

 

 

 

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[a] 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.(Jesus)

Matthew 5 v 27,28

 

Edited May 1, 2017 by HisFirst

[Running Gator]

1 hour ago, missmuffet said:

You are saying that it is ok for that woman to dress the way she was dressed at that Church and performing in that praise group. You are saying it is the man's problem. If he doesn't like it then don't look. I definitely do not see it that way.

I am saying that too often men are given a pass for their lack of self control.   It happens all the time,  

"don't wear that you will you will cause the man to lust" 

"dont be in a car alone with a women, you may not be able to control yourself"

etc and etc.  

But yeah, I am saying if it makes him uncomfortable, don't look.  Is that such a hard thing?  Is that too much to expect from an adult male?

 

[Running Gator]

1 hour ago, Gary Lee said:

So, running Gator. Try this.           Do not think of a pink elephant.     Can you still  control your mind?    Did you take a mental peek?

Yep, and hour ago when I read this I took a mental peak, and then didn't think about it again.  That is called controlling your mind.