Timing of the seals question

[Marilyn C]

3 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

As per the pre-tribulation Rapture,I could tell you how/why and when but this being a Seal thread I didn't really want to take the thread off course. But he is saying that the Sixth Seal is the beginning of Gods Wrath so the Church has to be Raptured by that time, but all the Seals are Gods/The Lambs Wrath, which was my point earlier. The Rapture does not happen in Rev. chapter 6 but before that time which is the Midway point in the Week.

It happens before Daniels 70th Week starts, and it all fits. 

 

 Amen bro.

[Spock]

4 hours ago, Revelation Man said:

As per the pre-tribulation Rapture,I could tell you how/why and when but this being a Seal thread I didn't really want to take the thread off course. But he is saying that the Sixth Seal is the beginning of Gods Wrath so the Church has to be Raptured by that time, but all the Seals are Gods/The Lambs Wrath, which was my point earlier. The Rapture does not happen in Rev. chapter 6 but before that time which is the Midway point in the Week.

It happens before Daniels 70th Week starts, and it all fits. 

 

You surprised me on this one Rev Man.  Just when I thought we were connecting too. 

Why don't you see Gods wrath beginning during the 6th seal in Rev 6:12 I believe? 

Why don't you see the raptured saints in Rev 7:9-17?  

If you look at this chronologically, it seems to fit. The rapture right before the TRUMPETS! (Rev 8)

[Marilyn C]

39 minutes ago, Spock said:

You surprised me on this one Rev Man.  Just when I thought we were connecting too. 

Why don't you see Gods wrath beginning during the 6th seal in Rev 6:12 I believe? 

Why don't you see the raptured saints in Rev 7:9-17?  

If you look at this chronologically, it seems to fit. The rapture right before the TRUMPETS! (Rev 8)

Hi Spock,

I see you are having a good chat with Rev. Man, but I would like to give you my thought. Now I do see why you think God`s wrath begins with the 6th seal as it says

`...for the great day of His wrath has come and who is able to stand?` (Rev. 6: 17)

It would seem thus, however scripture refers to the `Day of the Lord,` as one day and also as a time period,-  the tribulation, which is also called the Day of the Lord, and Jacob`s trouble, the day of His wrath.

Invariably scripture connects this time with tribulation and suffering.

`The great day of the Lord is near; it is near and hastens quickly. The noise of the Day of the Lord is bitter; the mighty men shall cry out.

That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of devastation and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, a day of trumpet and alarm against the fortified cities and against the high towers. ` (Zeph. 1: 14 - 16)

Day - Heb. `yowm` meaning a day, (from sunrise to sunset), or fig. a space of time defined by an associated term.

 

Hope that helps, Marilyn.

[Revelation Man]

2 hours ago, Spock said:

You surprised me on this one Rev Man.  Just when I thought we were connecting too. 

Why don't you see Gods wrath beginning during the 6th seal in Rev 6:12 I believe? 

Remember who is releasing the Seals !! Jesus Christ. God just doesn't do things without symmetry. If major wars started today between lets say Europe vs. Russian then the USA vs. China and this war went on say 6 months or a year, millions died from the war, starvation and disease, how many would say Oh man, we are in the Tribulation and we are in Gods Wrath? Not many, and the Atheists and nay sayers would laugh, WHAT GOD...Then of Course the 5th Seal no one but Jesus and the Dead Martyrs will know about that.

So what is going to happen when we have the Greatest Earthquake that ever has happened, the Sun turns Black and the moon turns Red while we have multi asteroids hitting the earth ? Its going to FINALLY REGISTER with mankind, even Atheists have read the bible and Revelation a little bit, its going to hit them, BOOM, the Sun is Black, the Moon is Blood Red, an Earthquake of epic proportions has moved Mountains out of place, and Asteroids are striking us, Whoooooaaa we are in Revelation chapter 6, The Lambs Wrath. 

You see they only recognize that they are in the Lambs Wrath at this point in time, and tbf, that's exactly when I would expect it to hit everyone. The Church is long gone, they all died, then were Raptured in a Spiritual body. The Seals from 1 to 7 is the Lambs Wrath, he is opening them up, bringing them forth. 

 

2 hours ago, Spock said:

Why don't you see the raptured saints in Rev 7:9-17?  

If you look at this chronologically, it seems to fit. The rapture right before the TRUMPETS! (Rev 8)

It is the Raptured Saints in Revelation chapter 7. But Revelation is not in Chronological order. The Seals/Trumpets and Vials are in Chronological order. Then you have a bunch of other visions weaved in betwixt them. Think of Rev. Ch. 6, its the Midway point we all agree, its the Seals.........But Rev. 12 is also the Midway point where the Woman Flees into the Wilderness for 1260 Days. Revelation Ch. 13 happens at the Midway point, the Beast (Anti-Christ) becomes a Beast when he Conquers Israel, then he has 42 Months to Rule as the Beast.....Notice 1260/42 Months etc. etc., they all are happening at the same time. Then you have Rev. 11 about the Two-Witnesses, they die before the Seven Vials come forth, BUT....They have to preach 1260 Days, so they have to come on the scene Before the Anti-Christ comes to power, because they die before he does, so Ch. 11 comes before Ch. 6 which starts out with the Anti-Christ Conquering. 

Think Seals, Trumpets and Vials in PERFECT ORDER. Then everything else is jumbled together. Revelation 19, imho, is the full Seven Year Period. We marry the Lamb, abide in Heaven for 7 Years like the Jewish Bride abides in the Bridal Chamber for 7 Days in the fathers house.......Fathers House/Heaven.

Rev. 7 is the Bride in Heaven that is spoken of in Rev. 19, the Martyrs in Rev. Ch. 6, under the Alter in the 5th Seal are told to wait until their fellow brothers are killed also, they have to wait until the Anti-Christs 42 month Rule is over before Christ raises them up at the Second Coming, where the Church/Bride returns with him. 

Those Trumpets are Judgment Trumpets, not a call to Heaven. Watch this brother. I wont go in depth, I will give you a pattern God gave us in Leviticus Ch. 23. This is pretty cool.

 

The Seven Feast Pattern of Leviticus chapter 23

The Three Spring Feasts Jesus has Fulfilled are first.

1. Feast of Passover (Jesus' Blood was shed and covers us)

2. Feast of Unleavened Bread (Jesus was without Sin)

3. Feast of First-fruits (Jesus was raised from the Dead)

 

Then we have the Feast which is all alone on the calendar The Harvest so to speak.

4. Feast of Pentecost (This is the CHURCH AGE !! We are used by the Sower to HARVEST SOULS and we are his Body. We were given the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. When the LAST TRUMP SOUNDS the Church will be called home to Meet Jesus in the air where we will go and make our abode in the Bridal Chambers for 7 Years.

 

Three Fall Feasts

5. The Feast of Trumpets (This did nothing, except announce that the Feast of Harvest was over, and that the Feast of Atonement was Nigh.......THE LAST TRUMP !! It announces the Church Age is over !! At the Last Trump Paul said.

6. The Feast of Atonement ( The Church is gone, so who needs Atonement? Well of course Daniels 70th Week Decree says Israel MUST REPENT before the 70th Week comes to and end. Israel is now on the Clock, and God is going to deal with them, the Church is in Heaven, the Anti-Christ comes against Israel, BUT....just before that happens Elijah, one of the Two-Witnesses who comes is said to turn Israel back to God before the (Malachi 4:5-6) Great and Terrible Day of the Lord (Midway point). So Israel REPENTS/ATONES (Zechariah 12:10/13:1) and then God protects her for 1260 Days in the Wilderness (Maybe Petra). What comes next? TABERNACLE Means to Dwell with God.

The Feast of Tabernacle ( When Jesus comes back and gathers the Wheat into the Barn, Israel will then DWELL WITH GOD.

The Pattern is there for us all to see, Christ Dies and fulfills three Spring Feasts.....The Harvest/Pentecost is the Church Age.....Then the three Fall Feasts will be Fulfilled, the Church is called home, and Israel Atones then Dwells with God.

 

 

Edited May 10, 2017 by Revelation Man

[missmuffet]

5 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

Care to share it?

The rapture of the Church.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15:50-54

Christ will return for His Church before the "time of Jacob's Trouble"

Jeremiah 30:7

The purpose of the rapture is to remove the Church so that God can complete

the 70th week of Daniel that is unfinished relating to Israel.

The Church has been promised to be kept from the hour of testing which is the tribulation that will come over the whole

world.

Revelation 3:10

No where in the book of Revelation is the Church mentioned...why? Because it has gone up in the rapture.

[wingnut-]

1 minute ago, missmuffet said:

The rapture of the Church.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

1 Corinthians 15:50-54

Christ will return for His Church before the "time of Jacob's Trouble"

Jeremiah 30:7

The purpose of the rapture is to remove the Church so that God can complete

the 70th week of Daniel that is unfinished relating to Israel.

The Church has been promised to be kept from the hour of testing which is the tribulation that will come over the whole

world.

Revelation 3:10

No where in the book of Revelation is the Church mentioned...why? Because it has gone up in the rapture.

 

Ok, well I just discussed all of those scriptures in another thread and shared my thoughts on them.  I would disagree that they say what you claim.  As far as the church being mentioned in Revelation I would also disagree, the saints are mentioned many times.  Thank you though for sharing.

God bless

[missmuffet]

1 minute ago, wingnut- said:

 

Ok, well I just discussed all of those scriptures in another thread and shared my thoughts on them.  I would disagree that they say what you claim.  As far as the church being mentioned in Revelation I would also disagree, the saints are mentioned many times.  Thank you though for sharing.

God bless

You disagree because you are giving those passages your own meaning? If you read them literally, which is what we are suppose to do, you could not miss the real meaning.

[Spock]

21 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

Remember who is releasing the Seals !! Jesus Christ. God just doesn't do things without symmetry. If major wars started today between lets say Europe vs. Russian then the USA vs. China and this war went on say 6 months or a year, millions died from the war, starvation and disease, how many would say Oh man, we are in the Tribulation and we are in Gods Wrath? Not many, and the Atheists and nay sayers would laugh, WHAT GOD...Then of Course the 5th Seal no one but Jesus and the Dead Martyrs will know about that.

So what is going to happen when we have the Greatest Earthquake that ever has happened, the Sun turns Black and the moon turns Red while we have multi asteroids hitting the earth ? Its going to FINALLY REGISTER with mankind, even Atheists have read the bible and Revelation a little bit, its going to hit them, BOOM, the Sun is Black, the Moon is Blood Red, an Earthquake of epic proportions has moved Mountains out of place, and Asteroids are striking us, Whoooooaaa we are in Revelation chapter 6, The Lambs Wrath. 

You see they only recognize that they are in the Lambs Wrath at this point in time, and tbf, that's exactly when I would expect it to hit everyone. The Church is long gone, they all died, then were Raptured in a Spiritual body. The Seals from 1 to 7 is the Lambs Wrath, he is opening them up, bringing them forth. 

 

It is the Raptured Saints in Revelation chapter 7. But Revelation is not in Chronological order. The Seals/Trumpets and Vials are in Chronological order. Then you have a bunch of other visions weaved in betwixt them. Think of Rev. Ch. 6, its the Midway point we all agree, its the Seals.........But Rev. 12 is also the Midway point where the Woman Flees into the Wilderness for 1260 Days. Revelation Ch. 13 happens at the Midway point, the Beast (Anti-Christ) becomes a Beast when he Conquers Israel, then he has 42 Months to Rule as the Beast.....Notice 1260/42 Months etc. etc., they all are happening at the same time. Then you have Rev. 11, they die before the Seven Vials come forth, BUT....They have to preach 1260 Days, so the have to come on the scene Before the Anti-Christ comes to power, because they die before he does, so Ch. 11 comes before Ch. 6 which starts out with the Anti-Christ Conquering. 

Think Seals, Trumpets and Vials in PERFECT ORDER. Then everything else is jumbled together. Revelation 19, imho, is the full Seven Year Period. We marry the Lamb, abide in Heaven for 7 Years like the Jewish Bride abides in the Bridal Chamber for 7 Days in the fathers house.......Fathers House/Heaven.

Rev. 7 is the Bride in Heaven that is spoken of in Rev. 19, the Martyrs in Rev. Ch. 6, under the Alter in the 5th Seal are told to wait until their fellow brothers are killed also, they have to wait until the Anti-Christs 42 month Rule is over before Christ raises them up at the Second Coming, where the Church/Bride returns with him. 

Those Trumpets are Judgment Trumpets, not a call to Heaven. Watch this brother. I wont go in depth, I will give you a pattern God gave us in Leviticus Ch. 23. This is pretty cool.

 

The Seven Feast Pattern of Leviticus chapter 23

The Three Spring Feasts Jesus has Fulfilled are first.

1. Feast of Passover (Jesus' Blood was shed and covers us)

2. Feast of Unleavened Bread (Jesus was without Sin)

3. Feast of First-fruits (Jesus was raised from the Dead)

 

Then we have the Feast which is all alone on the calendar The Harvest so to speak.

4. Feast of Pentecost (This is the CHURCH AGE !! We are used by the Sower to HARVEST SOULS and we are his Body. We were given the Holy Spirit on Pentecost. When the LAST TRUMP SOUNDS the Church will be called home to Meet Jesus in the air where we will go and make our abode in the Bridal Chambers for 7 Years.

 

Three Fall Feasts

5. The Feast of Trumpets (This did nothing, except announce that the Feast of Harvest was over, and that the Feast of Atonement was Nigh.......THE LAST TRUMP !! It announces the Church Age is over !! At the Last Trump Paul said.

6. The Feast of Atonement ( The Church is gone, so who needs Atonement? Well of course Daniels 70th Week Decree says Israel MUST REPENT before the 70th Weeks comes to and end. Israel is now on the Clock, and God is going to deal with them, the Church is in Heaven, the Anti-Christ comes against Israel, and just before that happens Elijah, one of the two-witnesses who comes is said to turn Israel back to God before the (Malachi 4:5-6) Great and Terrible Day of the Lord (Midway point). So Israel REPENTS/ATONES and then God protects her for 1260 Days in the Wilderness (Maybe Petra). What comes next? TABERNACLE=Means Dwell with God.

The Feast of Tabernacle ( When Jesus comes back and gathers the Wheat into the Barn, Israel will then DWELL WITH GOD.

The Pattern is there for us all to see, Christ Dies and fulfills three Spring Feasts.....The Harvest/Pentecost is the Church Age.....Then the three Fall Feasts will be Fulfilled, the Church is called home, and Israel Atones then Dwells with God.

 

 

You continue to confuse me brother.

You stated you believed the seals, trumpets, and bowls all occurred in the GT, the last 3.5'years. 

So why put the rapture before the 70th week? Why not at least put the rapture before the mid point abomination when the AC becomes the beast, instead of placing the rapture before the peace treaty, that initiates the final 70th week of Daniel? 

What basis from scripture do you see the rapture before the 70th week? 

Thanks,

spock

Edited May 10, 2017 by Spock

[wingnut-]

7 hours ago, Spock said:

He makes an interesting point, but no.  

It doesn't make sense to me that Jesus, who is opening the scrolls, has himself in it.  Does it make sense to you?  And like I said, I see this happening AFTER his ascension to heaven.  Lastly, these are seal JUDGMENTS. Nothing good comes out of a judgement.  

This is how I see it. Not saying it is the Gospel and I do like how wing nut is using scripture to interpret scripture, but I think the rider on the white horse might be someone who initially was well loved and received, thus riding the white horse.  

 

I would like to add a few more thoughts for consideration.  First concerning the 2nd rider on the red horse.

 

Revelation 6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

 

First thing to take note of is the fact that fire is connected to this rider.  The second thing is the most important factor, it was granted to this rider to take peace and that people should kill each other.  The third thing is that he was given not just a sword, but a great sword.  Now why would it have to be granted to someone to take peace and have people kill each other when that has been happening since Genesis?  This rider is also carrying a great sword, an offensive weapon to bring death.

When you consider that fact, it really only leaves one option it seems, unless there is a logical explanation as to why someone in the last days of the age would suddenly need permission to do what has been going on since the beginning.

 

Second I would revisit the first rider, although as I said before this one to me is quite easy.

 

Revelation 6: 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

 

First thing is the bow, a defensive weapon.  The second thing is a crown, and despite what I saw someone else argue it does not say anything more or less about this crown.  Really the final segment is the most telling evidence.  He went out not just conquering, but to conquer.  We all know who the winner is at the end, the rider on the white horse.

Now I understand that in Revelation 19 there is no mention of the bow, but that is because it is a different time.  He doesn't carry a sword, He doesn't need one, which is why in Revelation 19 it specifically states that the sword comes from His mouth.  If you compare this to the OT prophecies you will find numerous prophecies that say when He comes that He will speak and the enemy will fall, or simply move His hand.

From the beginning though, and back to the bow, He was not on the offensive.  But He has always looked after His people, and has always handed out justice.  When Cain kills Abel, who is it that hands down the sentence for Cain?  Anyway, just something more for you to ponder brother.

One other thing I wanted to point out that I think you are mistaken on.  You said that the seals are judgments, I would take another look at that, look carefully at the first five and tell me what judgment you see.  Start with the fifth if you like, it amplifies my point.

 

God bless

 

[wingnut-]

40 minutes ago, missmuffet said:

You disagree because you are giving those passages your own meaning? If you read them literally, which is what we are suppose to do, you could not miss the real meaning.

 

No I am not, I am taking what they say.  When it says we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath that is precisely what it means, we won't because we are covered by the blood of the Lamb.  You are changing the literal meaning by saying you won't go through something, when in fact going through something and suffering something are two different things.  Again I would refer those who think this way to read the ten plagues of Egypt again, the Israelites went through it all, but did not suffer, only the Egyptians suffered.

God bless