Timing of the seals question

[Daniel 11:36]

Revelation 12:1-5 is past ... 12:6-17 is all future during the 70th week decreed for Israel

This gives the Revelation perspective of the Lord, Israel, and Satan .... past and future .... and should be read in conjunction with [Matthew 24; Luke 21-36; Revelation 7:1-8; 11:2-12; 12:12-17; 13:1-4; 14:1-7]

The 7 seals of Revelation are a portent of this coming drama with the 6th and the 7th giving the introduction to the actual events of the setting in chapter 8 

[wingnut-]

8 minutes ago, Revelation Man said:

I think I have mentioned this to you before. Jesus' prophecy (Of course prophecy means future events) in Rev. 12 uses the story about the Woman (Israel) having the male-child (Jesus) and the Dragon (Satan via Herod) trying to kill him to set up the prophecy where it could be told without using the words Israel and Satan. Israel had been defeated and vanquished by Rome, imho if they caught a Church or John with a letter/epistle/book that stated that God was going to protect Israel, then that would have caused even greater persecution of the churches, who the Romans hated anyway. 

Rev. 17 uses Daniel 5 imagery when we read about the Harlot. She drank out of a Cup full of abominations, in Daniel 5 they did the same thing, and their Kingdom was taken from them that very night. The Seals Four Horsemen are found in Old Testament books. Jesus/John used this imagery to encode the book of Revelation Christians could understand it, but others couldn't. It wouldn't have been a good thing to call Rome a Beast Dragon would it? So he had 7 Heads and Rome was just a Head as was the Lion, Bear and Leopard. 

Rev. 12 is not a Prophecy about a past event, it just uses a past even to help encode a future event. I haven't researched it, but s Israel used anywhere in the book of Revelation? 

 

 

I agree with you 100%, and will go one further with this.  The Romans tried to kill John by boiling him alive in oil, and he didn't die.  I believe this is why they sent him to the Isle of Patmos, an island prison where they sent the very worst of criminals to assure they could not escape.  They were deathly afraid of John because he survived their intended capital punishment.

John wrote the book using symbolism to ensure that it would be delivered off of the island to his intended audience.  When the Romans reviewed it they most likely laughed and assumed these mad ramblings (as they saw it) would only discredit John's teachings and Christianity as a whole.  Having foreknowledge of all this, Jesus incorporated symbolism throughout the entire bible so that His children would recognize these symbols and understand the message.

This is why we see how things such as the Jewish festivals, feasts, and customs, as well as their sacrificial offerings and other things reveal truths and knowledge that can be found all the way through scripture up to and including the book of Revelation.  There is a section on these forums called Understanding Hebrew Roots which is full of a wealth of knowledge that I highly recommend everyone checks out.

God bless

[Spock]

3 hours ago, wingnut- said:

 

I agree 100%, as well as the fact He will rule with an iron scepter, and that the enemy tried to have Him killed from birth via King Herod.  So then back to my original question, is that reference to something historical, or something in the future?

I'm pretty sure muffet is trying to reason this out knowing that the woman represenets "Israel" and that this is right out of the book of Genesis regarding Joseph, the kid with the multi colored coat. And that clearly some part of Rev is history and not end times stuff. 

I think Muffet put herself in a corner when she said the Book of Rev is ONLY about Future events. I don't think one has to put,themself in that corner. Those who are not preterists know the book of Rev is describing future events, like the period known as the Great Trib.  I dont believe it is necessary in order to support ones agenda that you have to have 100% of Rev in the future. Nothing is gained by saying that imo. 

[Heb 13:8]

2 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

Revelation 12:1-5 is past ... 12:6-17 is all future during the 70th week decreed for Israel

Hi Daniel 11:36,

I do believe Rev 12:1-5 is also future. It only occurs once in Stellarium in 7,000 years on 9/23/17.

- Heb 13:8

[Daniel 11:36]

"I do believe Rev 12:1-5 is also future"

 

No, this is what happened to the Lord in the first century explicitly and by the record

Revelation 12:6-17 is definitely future and still pending

[missmuffet]

16 minutes ago, Spock said:

I'm pretty sure muffet is trying to reason this out knowing that the woman represenets "Israel" and that this is right out of the book of Genesis regarding Joseph, the kid with the multi colored coat. And that clearly some part of Rev is history and not end times stuff. 

I think Muffet put herself in a corner when she said the Book of Rev is ONLY about Future events. I don't think one has to put,themself in that corner. Those who are not preterists know the book of Rev is describing future events, like the period known as the Great Trib.  I dont believe it is necessary in order to support ones agenda that you have to have 100% of Rev in the future. Nothing is gained by saying that imo. 

No, I believe the prophecies in the book of Revelation all are future.

[Daniel 11:36]

I agree except that Revelation 12:1-5 is definitely first century and before

So is Revelation 17 regarding the beast with respect to his beginnings .... he once "was" ruling over his 5 kingdoms of the past and will come out of the abyss to rule the 6th and larger 7th

Other than these two things Revelation is all future and still pending 

[Spock]

28 minutes ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

I agree except that Revelation 12:1-5 is definitely first century and before

So is Revelation 17 regarding the beast with respect to his beginnings .... he once "was" ruling over his 5 kingdoms of the past and will come out of the abyss to rule the 6th and larger 7th

Other than these two things Revelation is all future and still pending 

I agree.  Maybe muffet could explain what these verses in Rev 12 mean to her if not past. How are they all future? 

[missmuffet]

1 hour ago, Spock said:

I agree.  Maybe muffet could explain what these verses in Rev 12 mean to her if not past. How are they all future? 

Would you please address the question to me With Scripture.

[Revelation Man]

3 hours ago, Daniel 11:36 said:

I agree except that Revelation 12:1-5 is definitely first century and before

So is Revelation 17 regarding the beast with respect to his beginnings .... he once "was" ruling over his 5 kingdoms of the past and will come out of the abyss to rule the 6th and larger 7th

Other than these two things Revelation is all future and still pending 

All the Prophecies in Revelation, past Chapter Three , are future events. The writer uses Old Testament prose/verbiage to encode the book of Revelation. For instance the Rev. 12 prophecy has nothing to do with Israel giving birth to Jesus whom Satan the Dragon tried to Kill. The chapter is about these future events: Satan is cast out of Heaven at the Mid-way point in the Final week (Israel FLEES for 1260 Days that's how we knows its the Midway point) then of course Israel Flees to the Wilderness, Satan can't get after her so he goes after the SMALL PART of the Church that is on Earth (Remnant). 

Its not about Jesus' birth, why would Jesus via John prophecy about an event that has already passed? He wouldn't, but he only used that scene to encode the rest of Rev. 12. Its still all about the Future, the prophecy can't be about past events. And since Rev is about the Last Week, it can even be about events 100 years ago. 

That is why I warn people about the Revelation "SIGN" where they are looking at Virgo, Jupiter and Venus....Its Astrology, and God warns us time and again about Divination, it is EVIL.